Why is SSJ God so powerful?

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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:27 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Is Ultimate Gohan an impure state?
Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P1.5
Context: as Gohan approaches Boo and co.
Piccolo: “It’s a str-strong ki…! I can’t tell who it is…Is it some new enemy…!?”

Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”
And let's not forget that Gohan wanted to kill Boo, while normally, Gohan doesn't want to kill.
I pretty much treat Ultimate and base as the same thing.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:12 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:I pretty much treat Ultimate and base as the same thing.
Well, they have different hairstyles in the manga, and BoG disagrees with you. :P
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I'm not saying they are different forms though, I'm saying that they are different states.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:16 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I pretty much treat Ultimate and base as the same thing.
Well, they have different hairstyles in the manga, and BoG disagrees with you. :P
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I'm not saying they are different forms though, I'm saying that they are different states.
During the ritual power up when Gohan got pissed off he had SSJ eyes but had black hair. He seemed to try to go SSJ but instead released some of his dormant power. Later we never see the SSJ eyes again.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:21 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:During the ritual power up when Gohan got pissed off he had SSJ eyes but had black hair. He seemed to try to go SSJ but instead released some of his dormant power. Later we never see the SSJ eyes again.
Ultimate was incomplete, and both Super Saiyan & Ultimate draw power from Gohan's dormant power, so I guess that's why we saw Super Saiyan eyes. That doesn't mean that Super Saiyan was gone after the ritual was complete, and apparently, it's still there.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:24 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:During the ritual power up when Gohan got pissed off he had SSJ eyes but had black hair. He seemed to try to go SSJ but instead released some of his dormant power. Later we never see the SSJ eyes again.
Ultimate was incomplete, and both Super Saiyan & Ultimate draw power from Gohan's dormant power, so I guess that's why we saw Super Saiyan eyes. That doesn't mean that Super Saiyan was gone after the ritual was complete, and apparently, it's still there.
He does practically the same thing when powering up to both forms. I consider the whole Ultimate thing done as last minute in the movie.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:26 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:During the ritual power up when Gohan got pissed off he had SSJ eyes but had black hair. He seemed to try to go SSJ but instead released some of his dormant power. Later we never see the SSJ eyes again.
Ultimate was incomplete, and both Super Saiyan & Ultimate draw power from Gohan's dormant power, so I guess that's why we saw Super Saiyan eyes. That doesn't mean that Super Saiyan was gone after the ritual was complete, and apparently, it's still there.
He does practically the same thing when powering up to both forms. I consider the whole Ultimate thing done as last minute in the movie.
Funny the dialog proves that.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:28 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:He does practically the same thing when powering up to both forms.
He also does the same when he power-ups from base to Super Saiyan or from base to Super Saiyan 2.
dbzfan7 wrote:I consider the whole Ultimate thing done as last minute in the movie.
Officially, this isn't the case. I don't care if it's true or not, I care about what I see in the actual movie, and in the movie, Gohan can use both Ultimate & Super Saiyan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:29 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:He does practically the same thing when powering up to both forms.
He also does the same when he power-ups from base to Super Saiyan or from base to Super Saiyan 2.
Exactly. He does the same thing for Ultimate that he did for SSJ and SSJ2
dbzfan7 wrote:I consider the whole Ultimate thing done as last minute in the movie.
Officially, this isn't the case. I don't care if it's true or not, I care about what I see in the actual movie, and in the movie, Gohan can use both Ultimate & Super Saiyan.[/quote]

For all we know they just used SSJ Gohan their because they ran out of time. They basically did a crappy re-edit for Goku in the Otherworld saga so it's possible.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:30 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:For all we know they just used SSJ Gohan their because they ran out of time.
But we don't know, and we'll probably never know. So all we have is what we see.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:31 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:For all we know they just used SSJ Gohan their because they ran out of time.
But we don't know, and we'll probably never know. So all we have is what we see.
Like I said they did the same thing for Goku in the otherworld saga. They recolored his hair black when he is clearly an SSJ.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:32 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:For all we know they just used SSJ Gohan their because they ran out of time.
But we don't know, and we'll probably never know. So all we have is what we see.
SSJ Gohan in trailer. Then changed into Mystic. Then try to play it off and say it was for promotional reasons. I think we all know Gohan was suppose to be SSJ. The dialog even plays up to it.

The website states Gohan > Everyone. the movie have Gotenks > Gohan
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:35 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:For all we know they just used SSJ Gohan their because they ran out of time.
But we don't know, and we'll probably never know. So all we have is what we see.
SSJ Gohan in trailer. Then changed into Mystic. Then try to play it off and say it was for promotional reasons. I think we all know Gohan was suppose to be SSJ. The dialog even plays up to it.

The website states Gohan > Everyone. the movie have Gotenks > Gohan
Exaclty. Gotenks doesn't even bother going SSJ3 when Ultimate Gohan loses, that's ridiculous. Also Gotenks gets commented on his fighting sense when he should know less than Gohan who trained with Piccolo and Goku.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:37 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:Like I said they did the same thing for Goku in the otherworld saga. They recolored his hair black when he is clearly an SSJ.
But in the final product, Goku wasn't a Super Saiyan. Same for Gohan.
TheGmGoken wrote:the movie have Gotenks > Gohan
How?
dbzfan7 wrote:Gotenks doesn't even bother going SSJ3 when Ultimate Gohan loses, that's ridiculous.
Gotenks is stupid & arrogant, and was instantly beaten. That's why he didn't transform further.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:40 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Gotenks doesn't even bother going SSJ3 when Ultimate Gohan loses, that's ridiculous.
Gotenks is stupid & arrogant, and was instantly beaten. That's why he didn't transform further.
Not even Gotenks is that stupid. He saw Ultimate Gohan lose and didn't even bother to go all out. He should know Ultimate Gohan is stronger than him as Goten knows this and even Trunks does. Gotenks also gets complemented about his fighting sense while Gohan is a disappointment. If Gohan was meant to be SSJ than SSJ Gotenks would make more sense.

And this has been done before with Goku in the other world tournament saga.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:48 pm

Gotenks is stupid & arrogant, and was instantly beaten. That's why he didn't transform further.
Gotenks is immature not stupid. There is a MAJOR difference. Gotenks should know Gohan > Gotenks. Yet he doesn't go SSJ3.
How?
Birsu said Gotenks had great fighting skills or sense.
But in the final product, Goku wasn't a Super Saiyan. Same for Gohan.
Each was LAST minute and wasn't thought out.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:53 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:Not even Gotenks is that stupid.
TheGmGoken wrote:Gotenks is immature not stupid. There is a MAJOR difference. Gotenks should know Gohan > Gotenks. Yet he doesn't go SSJ3.
We are talking about the same guy that believed that would kill Evil Boo in base.
dbzfan7 wrote:Gotenks also gets complemented about his fighting sense while Gohan is a disappointment.
TheGmGoken wrote:Birsu said Gotenks had great fighting skills or sense.
Gohan didn't even fight with Beers, he only tried to attack from behind & got K.O.ed after 2 hits. He didn't do anything impressive against Beers. Beers complimented Gotenks for his skills, which is Fusion.
dbzfan7 wrote:And this has been done before with Goku in the other world tournament saga.
Again, Goku was in base in the final product, which is what truly happened. And Gohan was Ultimate in the final product, which is also what truly happened.
TheGmGoken wrote:Each was LAST minute and wasn't thought out.
So what?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:58 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Not even Gotenks is that stupid.
TheGmGoken wrote:Gotenks is immature not stupid. There is a MAJOR difference. Gotenks should know Gohan > Gotenks. Yet he doesn't go SSJ3.
We are talking about the same guy that believed that would kill Evil Boo in base.
dbzfan7 wrote:Gotenks also gets complemented about his fighting sense while Gohan is a disappointment.
TheGmGoken wrote:Birsu said Gotenks had great fighting skills or sense.
Gohan didn't even fight with Beers, he only tried to attack from behind & got K.O.ed after 2 hits. He didn't do anything impressive against Beers. Beers complimented Gotenks for his skills, which is Fusion.
dbzfan7 wrote:And this has been done before with Goku in the other world tournament saga.
Again, Goku was in base in the final product, which is what truly happened. And Gohan was Ultimate in the final product, which is also what truly happened.
TheGmGoken wrote:Each was LAST minute and wasn't thought out.
So what?
He didn't complement fusion. He clearly says fighting sense. Gotenks knows his brother well. Goten and Trunks know how Gohan is stronger than him, so Gotenks would know as well. It makes way more sense that Gohan was meant to be an SSJ which is why Gotenks didn't go SSJ3 and why he left a better impression on Birus.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:04 pm

We are talking about the same guy that believed that would kill Evil Boo in base.
He got an insane power up. Then he turned SSJ to aid him. If he was stupid he would never turned SSJ.
Gohan didn't even fight with Beers, he only tried to attack from behind & got K.O.ed after 2 hits. He didn't do anything impressive against Beers. Beers complimented Gotenks for his skills, which is Fusion.
He complimented the fighting skills not the fusion. Gohan yes attacked from behind. Could had easily done something other than a Full Nelson.
Again, Goku was in base in the final product, which is what truly happened. And Gohan was Ultimate in the final product, which is also what truly happened.
Not saying it NEVER happen. I'm saying the movie was planned out as Gohan being SSJ. So we have to place Mystic Gohan at SSJ Gohan power level.
So what?
It means the movie wasn't planned out for Gohan mystic. It was planned for GOhan SSJ
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:07 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:He didn't complement fusion. He clearly says fighting sense.
He said that only after they did Fusion.
dbzfan7 wrote:Gotenks knows his brother well.
Back in Boo arc, he thought that after his training, he had surpassed his SS self before his training in base. So... yeah.
TheGmGoken wrote:He got an insane power up. Then he turned SSJ to aid him. If he was stupid he would never turned SSJ.
He was stupid enough to not turn Super Saiyan 3. Gotenks always underestimates his opponents, and overestimates himself. This is who Gotenks is.
TheGmGoken wrote:I'm saying the movie was planned out as Gohan being SSJ. So we have to place Mystic Gohan at SSJ Gohan power level.
They officially explained that Gohan was a Super Saiyan in the promotional material only for promotional reasons. They always intended to make him Ultimate. So, no, we don't have to.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Why is SSJ God so powerful?

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:09 pm

They officially explained that Gohan was a Super Saiyan in the promotional material only for promotional reasons. They always intended to make him Ultimate. So, no, we don't have to.
I find that bullshit to be honest. As I said they played it off as promotional reasons.

Wait..what does this have to do with SSJ God again?
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