Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
I think it was done to possibly signify FPSSJ, but I personally think the old SSJ style would have helped differentiate it from Goku's SSJ2 style.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Assuming a standing position, some art can have Super Saiyan 2 with 5 bangs on occasion and regular ol' Super Saiyan with as little as 4 or up to 7. Sometimes they like to add and extra set of little bangs in front of the ears.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
dbzfan7 wrote:I think it was done to possibly signify FPSSJ
I think you're looking too deeply into what's most likely just an art style shift. Especially considering Vegeta and Trunks' hair started looking a bit different throughout the Cell arc. Super Saiyan hair is even spikier yet in the Boo arc.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:I remember this one scene where Goku is fighting Freeza, he just has one huge bang coming from his hair.
Yep:
It's right after Freeza blows away Nameks core, and there's lots of strong wind, so it's safe to say it's an odd attempt at depicting his hair blowing.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai "90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash
It more or less comes down to the animator. Right after Goku fires of his "You Fool" blast (I hate calling it Angry Kamehameha) at Freeza and looks down at the hole he left, you see the wind blowing his hair about just fine. It moves and sways with the wind so again, comes down to the animator.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:It more or less comes down to the animator. Right after Goku fires of his "You Fool" blast (I hate calling it Angry Kamehameha) at Freeza and looks down at the hole he left, you see the wind blowing his hair about just fine. It moves and sways with the wind so again, comes down to the animator.
Of course. I'm familiar with the different animation teams.
Shindou, the team behind the aformentioned single bang scene, had a thing for exaggerating the angular look of the art. That's probably why his bang was so pronounced in that scene.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai "90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash
I guess that's Goku's take on the Big Bang attack!
"You haven't figured it out yet? I'm the Saiyan who came all the way from Earth for the sole purpose of beating you. I am the warrior you've heard of in legends, pure of heart and awakened by fury. That's what I am. I AM THE SUPER SAIYAN, SON GOKU!" - Goku, Dragon Ball Z Kai, The Angry Super Saiyan! Throw Your Hat in the Ring, Son Goku!
I personally enjoy the fact that, for example, it's pretty difficult to tell at a glance whether Vegeta is SSJ or SSJ2 (minus the Majin mark). It's a refreshing anti-shonen cliche to have such a huge increase in power result in very little outward difference. In fact, it might be one of the reasons I enjoy SSJ2 so much as a whole.
Honestly, I really like the old design way more. They really shouldn't have changed it, or if they did, make it so it's different enough from SSJ2. I'm not sure if this would help Gohan though , Toriyama haaaaaaaaaaad to make Gohan's hair resistant to change.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Firstly, it's the artstyle that's changed as a whole, not Goku's hair. Secondly... not only are the pictures you provided not from Toriyama, but they're not even of the same author. Hell, the 2nd one is from a video game art... You CAN'T put them together and rant about how they do not match.
hleV wrote:Firstly, it's the artstyle that's changed as a whole, not Goku's hair. Secondly... not only are the pictures you provided not from Toriyama, but they're not even of the same author. Hell, the 2nd one is from a video game art... You CAN'T put them together and rant about how they do not match.
You can post manga versions if you want to instead of bitching and moaning. Compare SSJ Namek to the Cell Games, Boo Saga, or current one. Notice how his SSJ hair is a lot more spiky then how he was initially shown. I just picked them because one shows off the hair standing up without it being spiky, and the other shows how it's currently a lot more spiky.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
hleV wrote:So... is my first point not good enough or are you just bitching and moaning about the second one?
It's a good point. But I didn't like the rest. You can still post those manga images if you got them. I didn't want to get bootlegs.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Well..the art style changed. Though I'll say SSJ2 should had just look more easy to tell the difference from. The beta form for SSJ3 should had been SSJ2 for Goku. Vegeta, and Adult/Teen Gohan
It's right after Freeza blows away Nameks core, and there's lots of strong wind, so it's safe to say it's an odd attempt at depicting his hair blowing.
This is exactly why I hate Shindou Mitso-era Shindou Productions.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
hleV wrote:Firstly, it's the artstyle that's changed as a whole, not Goku's hair. Secondly... not only are the pictures you provided not from Toriyama, but they're not even of the same author. Hell, the 2nd one is from a video game art... You CAN'T put them together and rant about how they do not match.
Jeez, no need to be hostile. The video game picture's hair is done in the exact same style as it is post-Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and the first pic from the Frieza saga is the same as how Toriyama drew the hair then. it's a valid, reasonable comparison of the styles.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words? Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up! Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes! Cold World (Fanfic) "It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Over time, Toriyama made the hair smaller & more detailed.
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James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.