Why is SSJ God so powerful?

[goku the krump dancer]

Ultimate from the very beginning or not the same thing would have happened I don't see what the big deal is, Beers is supposed to be stronger than Vegetto.

And yeah the brats were commended after they fused. For the type of story that Dragon Ball is, fusion is most definitely a fighting skill considering that it involes battle powers being similar and what not.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Ultimate from the very beginning or not the same thing would have happened I don't see what the big deal is, Beers is supposed to be stronger than Vegetto.

Exactly my viewpoint on it really. Even if Gohan's performance here is nerfed because he was originally planned to be Super Saiyan in the scene instead of Ultimate, the fact remains that he was gonna get knocked down regardless due to Beers being just that much stronger. I guess it would have been nice to see him do a little better than the others just barely, just to make him stand out more, but it would have been wasted time speaking from a film's perspective really.

[dbzfan7]

Ultimate from the very beginning or not the same thing would have happened I don't see what the big deal is, Beers is supposed to be stronger than Vegetto.

Exactly my viewpoint on it really. Even if Gohan's performance here is nerfed because he was originally planned to be Super Saiyan in the scene instead of Ultimate, the fact remains that he was gonna get knocked down regardless due to Beers being just that much stronger. I guess it would have been nice to see him do a little better than the others just barely, just to make him stand out more, but it would have been wasted time speaking from a film's perspective really.

I just find it odd why Gotenks wouldn't bother going SSJ3 after Gohan was defeated and how Vegeta gets praise even though he isn't SSJ God. Shouldn't the praise go to everyone one of them if they were SSJ God. I think if Gohan was a SSJ then Gotenks would think SSJ my be enough as he is stronger than Gohan's SSJ form.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Birus says Goku isn't full of hot air and beats him. He complements Goku for not being so weak.

Birus allows Vegeta to pound on him because he thought the burst in power could be SSJ God but is still impressed eitherway.

Birus is impressed with Gotenks fighting sense

Birus Is not impressed in the slightest with Gohan. He considers only Goku and Vegeta. Nobody else is or would be worth his time. ergo Gohan left no impression at all.

That's what I've been saying. Goku & Vegeta impressed Beers, Gotenks a little, and Gohan didn't. That doesn't mean that Gohan is the weakest.

Gotenks knows Gohan and yet won't go SSJ3 at all.

Seriously, why is it so hard for you to believe that Gotenks overestimated himself for a 5th time? I mean, he always does it and messes up, and it seems that he doesn't even bother to compare himself with the others. He just seems to be thinking that he is awesome & all powerful. Even Vegeta, someone who is not an idiot, believed that he was still stronger than Cell when he transformed into his Perfect form, while it was clear that Cell was much stronger. The problem about both Vegeta & Gotenks is that they are both too arrogant at times, which makes them underestimate their opponents.

Most likely because the animators are to lazy to animate all that hair for Gotenks.

This is impossible.

Never says only because of SSJ God. He also doesn't think the same for anyone else who got SSJ God. If he thought of Vegeta as well he probably thought Gohan would be no good as an SSJ God.

I said I think so, not that it's stated. I can't think of any other possible explanation about Goku & Vegeta being a threat for Beers in the future, so in my opinion, he is afraid of them in the future as stronger Super Saiyan Gods.

[Rocketman]

They've been desperately trying to erase Mystic Gohan ever since Z ended (most likely because he supremely overshadows ~*~*~*~*~*~*gokuuuuuuu*~*~*~*~*~*~). Can't say I'm surprised BoG shat on him and tried to pretend they didn't.

[KentalSSJ6]

They've been desperately trying to erase Mystic Gohan ever since Z ended (most likely because he supremely overshadows ~*~*~*~*~*~*gokuuuuuuu*~*~*~*~*~*~). Can't say I'm surprised BoG shat on him and tried to pretend they didn't.

Toei will milk Goku for every single drop they possibly can, even after hes bone dry they will continue. Its the same thing we got in GT. Everything Dragonball now seems to come down to Goku worship. Even though Gohan is many times stronger than Goku and would very likely would have beaten Bills had he been given SSJG instead of his father, they give him the shaft for yet more Goku worship.

[dbzfan7]

That's what I've been saying. Goku & Vegeta impressed Beers, Gotenks a little, and Gohan didn't. That doesn't mean that Gohan is the weakest.

Seeing how Gohan failed to leave any impression at all period then most likely he isn't as strong as he was portrayed earlier. Vegeta makes a better impression. I doubt he could do that if he was weaker.

Seriously, why is it so hard for you to believe that Gotenks overestimated himself for a 5th time? I mean, he always does it and messes up, and it seems that he doesn't even bother to compare himself with the others. He just seems to be thinking that he is awesome & all powerful. Even Vegeta, someone who is not an idiot, believed that he was still stronger than Cell when he transformed into his Perfect form, while it was clear that Cell was much stronger. The problem about both Vegeta & Gotenks is that they are both too arrogant at times, which makes them underestimate their opponents.

Everybody has underestimated Boo. Why is it so hard to believe Gohan was supposed to be SSJ and him being one would makes sense out of everything. Goten knows Gohan is stronger, Trunks knows Gohan is stronger, it's been 5 years. I'm damn sure they can put two and two together. Vegeta also does better than SSJ Gotenks as well. This again coming from the guy against GT Goku gains, but this perfectly fine.

This is impossible.

Changing Gohan's hair to black is easy, adding a whole new hairstyle is harder.

I said I think so, not that it's stated. I can't think of any other possible explanation about Goku & Vegeta being a threat for Beers in the future, so in my opinion, he is afraid of them in the future as stronger Super Saiyan Gods.

Even if you include SSJ God and say Gohan is stronger then Birus doesn't consider an SSJ God Gohan a threat at all, but says Goku and Vegeta are.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So wait: We have the manga & manga-guidebooks implying that Super Vegetto >>> Ultimate Gohan >>> SS Gotenks >>> SS3 Goku >>> SS2 Vegeta, and that Goku hasn't gotten much stronger after 10 years. We have supplemental information about the movie stating that Gohan is stronger than Goku & Vegeta. But you believe that Raged SS2 Vegeta > SS2 Vegeta > SS3 Goku > SS Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan because of their performance against a guy that is stronger than Super Vegetto & SS4 Goku/Vegeta? Because this is literally impossible and doesn't make sense at all. Beers took out Ultimate Gohan far too quickly for Gohan to get a chance to give any impression at all. The only impression that Gotenks got a chance to leave him was impress him because of Fusion. Vegeta was the last Saiyan standing, and Beers allowed him to hit him, because he was probably hoping that Vegeta was the Super Saiyan God, and he wasn't.

Everybody has underestimated Boo.

I'm not talking about underestimating Boo, I'm talking about Gotenks overestimating himself while he knows others' powers. He thought that he was stronger than SS3 Goku in base when he was formed, and he thought that he was stronger than himself as a Super Saiyan pre-training in his base post-training. He knew the powers of SS3 Goku & his SS (pre), yet he ignored the knowledge & placed himself on the top because he is stupid. Even in Boo arc, Trunks could feel that Gohan was much stronger than Gotenks, yet he was lying to himself & said that he was only a little, while he clearly wasn't a little stronger. I don't understand why he can't do the same again, he probably thought that after 5 years he had surpassed Gohan because it's been a long time.

This again coming from the guy against GT Goku gains, but this perfectly fine.

Yes, because I don't see any problem here at all. Beers is stronger than freaking Super Vegetto (perhaps stronger than even SS3 Vegetto), which means that nobody from the Z-Senshi should be strong enough to even make him move, unless he allows them to do it. He chose to quickly took out Gohan & Gotenks (who overestimated himself as he always does), but chose to let SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta go all out on him, only to be easily beaten.

Goku however getting 400 times stronger after 5 years by just training while he didn't even manage to double his power after 17 years makes zero sense.

Even if you include SSJ God and say Gohan is stronger then Birus doesn't consider an SSJ God Gohan a threat at all, but says Goku and Vegeta are.

That's because Gohan didn't get a chance to impress him like Goku & Vegeta did.

[dbzfan7]

So wait: We have the manga & manga-guidebooks implying that Super Vegetto >>> Ultimate Gohan >>> SS Gotenks >>> SS3 Goku >>> SS2 Vegeta, and that Goku hasn't gotten much stronger after 10 years. We have supplemental information about the movie stating that Gohan is stronger than Goku & Vegeta. But you believe that Raged SS2 Vegeta > SS2 Vegeta > SS3 Goku > SS Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan because of their performance against a guy that is stronger than Super Vegetto & SS4 Goku/Vegeta? Because this is literally impossible and doesn't make sense at all. Beers took out Ultimate Gohan far too quickly for Gohan to get a chance to give any impression at all. The only impression that Gotenks got a chance to leave him was impress him because of Fusion. Vegeta was the last Saiyan standing, and Beers allowed him to hit him, because he was probably hoping that Vegeta was the Super Saiyan God, and he wasn't.

Yes because it was SSJ Gohan fighting. Just like how it was SSJ Goku fighting in the other world against the Ginyu force.

I'm not talking about underestimating Boo, I'm talking about Gotenks overestimating himself while he knows others' powers. He thought that he was stronger than SS3 Goku in base when he was formed, and he thought that he was stronger than himself as a Super Saiyan pre-training in his base post-training. He knew the powers of SS3 Goku & his SS (pre), yet he ignored the knowledge & placed himself on the top because he is stupid. Even in Boo arc, Trunks could feel that Gohan was much stronger than Gotenks, yet he was lying to himself & said that he was only a little, while he clearly wasn't a little stronger. I don't understand why he can't do the same again, he probably thought that after 5 years he had surpassed Gohan because it's been a long time.

It was a set up joke just like how Piccolo couldn't stop Gotenks from flying off. A lot of people have Base Gotenks lower than Piccolo when keeping power levels in check, and yet Piccolo couldn't catch him. Piccolo also believed Gotenks was stronger. The whole thing was a set up gag since even Piccolo bought it. And he's smarter than Goku and Vegeta. Your making an excuse for a movie that clearly showed SSJ Gohan and then shoehorned in Ultimate Gohan. The result of fighting Birus would be the same, but it would explain a lot more logically why Gotenks doesn't bother going SSJ3 even 5 years later.

Yes, because I don't see any problem here at all. Beers is stronger than freaking Super Vegetto (perhaps stronger than even SS3 Vegetto), which means that nobody from the Z-Senshi should be strong enough to even make him move, unless he allows them to do it. He chose to quickly took out Gohan & Gotenks (who overestimated himself as he always does), but chose to let SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta go all out on him, only to be easily beaten.

The script was written by a Vegeta fanboy. It's clear as day the only reason Vegeta was left standing was so he could shine more. Watanabe did call Vegeta the secret star.

Goku however getting 400 times stronger after 5 years by just training while he didn't even manage to double his power after 17 years makes zero sense.

Sure it can. Just give it the same treatment your using here. Who knows what could happen with "Goku"

That's because Gohan didn't get a chance to impress him like Goku & Vegeta did.

Or more likely Gohan wasn't considered a threat as that's the face value of the line.


I'm sick of arguing this. It's a back and forth argument. Neither one of us will change our minds so it's either agree to disagree or a circle argument that goes on and on an on.

[KentalSSJ6]

The more this topic is debated, the more I hate this form. SSJG was essentially a ass pull so Goku could contend with Bills in power because somebody thought it was a good idea to make Bills stronger than freaking Super Vegito. Thats why SSJG is so powerful, because they went overkill on the villains strength and realized some super power up that comes out of nowhere would be the best option instead of say, SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ3 Gogeta.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes because it was SSJ Gohan fighting. Just like how it was SSJ Goku fighting in the other world against the Ginyu force.

Goku was in base from what we see. For me, the trailers are not "canon", and they don't necessarily portray the real events. Just like SS Goku doesn't have red eyes in M5, Goku is in base against the Ginyu Tokusentai, and Gohan is in Ultimate against Beers.

It was a set up joke just like how Piccolo couldn't stop Gotenks from flying off. A lot of people have Base Gotenks lower than Piccolo when keeping power levels in check, and yet Piccolo couldn't catch him. Piccolo also believed Gotenks was stronger. The whole thing was a set up gag since even Piccolo bought it. And he's smarter than Goku and Vegeta.

I know they are all gags, even Gotenks' fight with Beers was a gag. However, this doesn't change the fact that Gotenks always overestimates himself despite facts showing otherwise.

Your making an excuse for a movie that clearly showed SSJ Gohan and then shoehorned in Ultimate Gohan. The result of fighting Birus would be the same, but it would explain a lot more logically why Gotenks doesn't bother going SSJ3 even 5 years later.

The movie didn't show Super Saiyan Gohan against Beers, the trailers did. What we see in the movie matters, not in the trailers.

The script was written by a Vegeta fanboy. It's clear as day the only reason Vegeta was left standing was so he could shine more. Watanabe did call Vegeta the secret star.

I know that, but that's the out-of-universe explanation. In-universe, Beers was probably testing Vegeta.

Sure it can. Just give it the same treatment your using here. Who knows what could happen with "Goku"

What treatment? What do you mean?

I'm sick of arguing this. It's a back and forth argument. Neither one of us will change our minds so it's either agree to disagree or a circle argument that goes on and on an on.

Agreed, but answer me the above question.

The more this topic is debated, the more I hate this form. SSJG was essentially a ass pull so Goku could contend with Bills in power because somebody thought it was a good idea to make Bills stronger than freaking Super Vegito. Thats why SSJG is so powerful, because they went overkill on the villains strength and realized some super power up that comes out of nowhere would be the best option instead of say, SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ3 Gogeta.

Even if I didn't like Super Saiyan God, I would prefer it over SS3 Vegeta, Super/SS3 Vegetto, SS/SS3 Gogeta, and Genki Dama. We've seen all these before (except for SS3 Vegetto), so they would be boring. But Super Saiyan God is something new, and I would prefer anything new over something old.

[KentalSSJ6]

How is SSJ3 Vegeta not new? Hes only existed in the video games along with SSJ3 Gogeta. Tons of fans have wanted a SSJ3 Vegeta and when the rumor mill with BOG was still turning, SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ3 Gogeta were one of the most talked about subjects. We didnt need SSJG plain and simple.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How is SSJ3 Vegeta not new? Hes only existed in the video games along with SSJ3 Gogeta. Tons of fans have wanted a SSJ3 Vegeta and when the rumor mill with BOG was still turning, SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ3 Gogeta were one of the most talked about subjects.

Exactly, we have seen them already in video-games. There are also tons of fans that wanted Vegeta to beat the main villain, while missing the point that Goku is the permanent main character of the franchise now, and he will always beat the main villains. Except if Bardock has a special again.

[dbzfan7]

I'd rather just drop the argument here so the thread can go back on topic.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'd rather just drop the argument here so the thread can go back on topic.

Agreed, but I would like you to clear things up with this, because honestly I don't understand what you are trying to say, and I'm curious.

Sure it can. Just give it the same treatment your using here. Who knows what could happen with "Goku"

[Saiyatonian]

What has SSJ God Goku done that was so powerful?

[Kamiccolo9]

What has SSJ God Goku done that was so powerful?

Is putting up a fight against Beers not enough?

[TheGmGoken]

What has SSJ God Goku done that was so powerful?

Is putting up a fight against Beers not enough?

Hell being stronger than Vegetto should be proof enough

[TheMightyOzaru]

What has SSJ God Goku done that was so powerful?

Beers > Super Vegetto, SSJ God ~ Beers.

[Saiyatonian]

Of course I know that, just in terms of feats.