DBZ English Dub Fans on Kanzenshuu

[TheMightyOzaru]

The music for GT absolutely sucks for the English track

There fixed that for ya .

[Gonstead]

The music for GT absolutely sucks

There fixed that for ya .

And fixed again.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Meh, GT has a good track or 2 in Japanese.

[BirdieWatcher]

But the difference to most people is that a dub is not strictly the same as an adaptation. It's not like taking Batman out of the comics and making him into a brand-new movie storyline. It's not taking a Harry Potter novel and reworking so it functions as a film. It's not even taking the Dragon Ball manga and animating it. All it's supposed to do is present the same material in a different language. The thing about an adaptation is that it's not trying to pass itself off as the same thing as its source. A dub, however, usually is, so it's a bit of a slap in the face to those who know better. So while it's great that people have found something of value in this reversioning, it irks people that such a deviation is being presented as the same thing.

Also, I just have, have, have to say that "irregardless" is not a word.

I just have, have, have to say that standard English is best left to technical writers, and those who can use hyphens correctly.

I don't thinks a translation taking liberties is a slap in the face or even bad, as long as something can be gained from the change. A good example in a medium I am more familiar with is the game Lunar 2 where the translators added in the idea that there was an unrequited love between two characters, where there was no such reference in the original work.

But I can understand your point, in the same way I can understand why people like the first Harry Potter film, boring but true to the source.

[Bardo117]

I haven't even tried watching the Japanese voices + American score. The thought of it scares me hah. It wasn't meant for that version of the show! The differences would have definitely changed how we edited and scored it.

Well now you can get the chance! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pnNtpvkwNs

That was nasty

This track is what defines DBZ to me musically though, it's too amazing....

[TheBlackPaladin]

The music for GT absolutely sucks for the Japanese track

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course. However, I must heartily disagree. In my opinion, some of Tokunaga's stuff was brilliant, rivaling that of Kikuchi's. I would point to episode 64 (the final episode of GT) in particular as an example of spectacular music and spectacular music placement.

[dario03]

I prefer the Japanese version of GT. Though that's mostly due to the fact that I can find something far less annoying when I have to read to know what they're saying. And that's not just a rip on GT for being horrible, I really do. Kind of like with Naruto I hated how in the dub he kept saying believe it all the time but him saying dattebayo all the time never bothered me in the Japanese version.
And I actually think stuff like that can be part of the reason people will like subs better. It's easier to overlook the small bad stuff when you don't speak the language.

Well now you can get the chance! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pnNtpvkwNs

Cool, I always wanted a version of DBZ where you could just mix and match the language and music scores so that we could have Funi music and Japanese voices. Just want to see how it would fit in places.

[90sDBZ]

So what's the big deal if Funi did take liberties with their dub? It makes lots of people happy and even makes others curious about watching the Japanese version in the first place so it's a win-win. In the end the Japanese version still exists and always has and always gets released on DVD along with the dub. I just don't see how some feel the need to act like it's an awful moral crime when Toei allowed it all and possibly even encouraged it as far as we know. I mean why is it okay for someone to actually draw and animate their own show or make their own comic by taking the concept of someone else's but not okay to make creative changes to someone else's already existing show with the blessing of the maker? I feel like people are splitting hairs here.

[VegettoEX]

I mean why is it okay for someone to actually draw and animate their own show or make their own comic by taking the concept of someone else's but not okay to make creative changes to someone else's already existing show with the blessing of the maker? I feel like people are splitting hairs here.

Even if Zombie da Vinci rose from his grave and told you to knock yourself out with new adaptations, you're not pretending your sketch of The Last Supper with aliens inserted into the background and Buckethead composing background music for all public showcases is actually an honest representation and may even be the original version of said painting.

"Season Three" (and onwards for several years) was Gen Fukunaga and (more specifically) Barry Watson honestly telling us, "Hey kids, we have DBZ for you again! What's that? We said something before about bringing it to you uncut with faithful dialog and the original music? No, no, no. This is DBZ. Shut up. You're all stupid. Just shut up. We're not listening to you. LA LA LA LA LA LA."

That's not "splitting hairs", and it is why we feel the need to explain why the viewing experience is different and how that then affects interpretations of scenes.

[Ringworm128]

Oh hi argument that pops up every time there's a thread about the dub I was wondering where you went.

[VegettoEX]

Oh hi argument that pops up every time there's a thread about the dub I was wondering where you went.

While I admit it pops up frequently, if you're not interested in the conversation, you don't have to contribute. This is one of those cases.

[Ringworm128]

But this is a thread about whether or not you like the dub not "Did Funimation have the right to do what they did thread #9001"

[ABED]

I don't think anyone's arguing FUNi didn't have a legal right to do what they did, just that the liberties they took were for the worst. I think as the reaction to movies 1-3 and Kai has shown, many if not most fans of the original Japanese are fine with the fact that not everything can be translated word for word, as long as there's a good effort on the part of the adaptors to stay true to the characters and story. Having Kuririn say "mondo cool" or "why didn't I become a shoe salesman?" aren't who he is.

At least when Super Sentai came over to America, it wasn't straight up adaptation. It was its own show with its own characters but with old footage spliced in.

[Ringworm128]

That's the thing, with the exception of a couple of characters and scenes the DBZ dub still had the same story and characters despite being watered down. Vegeta was still an arrogant prick, Chichi was still bossy, Piccolo was still stern etc. It's probably why the cast worked so well with more faithful scripts, because they were still playing the same characters.

[ABED]

That's the thing, with the exception of a couple of characters and scenes the DBZ dub still had the same story and characters despite being watered down. Vegeta was still an arrogant prick, Chichi was still bossy, Piccolo was still stern etc. It's probably why the cast worked so well with more faithful scripts, because they were still playing the same characters.

That and much more experience.

It's a similar story but it's always in the execution. Watered down is right, though F-R-I-E-Z-A is very different from Freeza.

Edit: is there some program (forgive my ignorance of computer terminology) on this forum that doesn't allow for the english spelling of Freeza?

[Ringworm128]

Ya gotta write it like this. Fri-eza. These filters cause more problems then they solve.

[B]

... A good example in a medium I am more familiar with is the game Lunar 2 where the translators added in the idea that there was an unrequited love between two characters, where there was no such reference in the original work.

But I can understand your point, in the same way I can understand why people like the first Harry Potter film, boring but true to the source.

The only reason the rest of the movies started changing things is because the books got longer. That's why the final film(s) was split into two parts; so it could cover everything. If you found the first one "boring" that's on JK Rowling, not the studio's/director's "failure" to change things.

And while I'm not familiar with Lunar 2, I don't understand how that change is good in any way. It's not a translator's/licensor's job to fix things they've blindly and divinely willed to be a slight on the material.

[Looneygamemaster]

A good example in a medium I am more familiar with is the game Lunar 2 where the translators added in the idea that there was an unrequited love between two characters, where there was no such reference in the original work.

Really? As a Lunar fan, I'd like to know what this is about.

The only reason the rest of the movies started changing things is because the books got longer. That's why the final film(s) was split into two parts; so it could cover everything. If you found the first one "boring" that's on JK Rowling, not the studio's/director's "failure" to change things.

...I don't want to be rude, but this post depresses me. It really does.

What do people think adaptations are? Do they think it's just "covering everything in the original work?" Is this why we continually get uninspired "scene-by-scene copy and paste" works like DBZ?

Adaptations are works of art in and of themselves, and I believe that adaptors have every right to make changes they feel will support their new versions. Of course, the audience has the right to judge the changes they make, but this belief that they can't make any changes is artistically stifling.

...Again, sorry if this came off as rude, but this is just a big pet peeve of mine.

[B]

I'm just not big on the idea that someone not involved with the original production gets to decide what works and what doesn't, and that ends up being what the audience gets.

Of course, a movie adaptation couldn't be further apart from a dubbing project. And even with that in mind, I have my doubts the Japanese dubs of the Harry Potter films are as far as FUNimaton's DBZ.

[OutlawTorn]

And while I'm not familiar with Lunar 2, I don't understand how that change is good in any way. It's not a translator's/licensor's job to fix things they've blindly and divinely willed to be a slight on the material.

Working Designs often made changes here and their for the English version of their games. Some were minor, such as an NPC at a bus stop in Arc the Lad II responding with "Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for Godot" to what I'm only guessing was an alteration in Lunar with the town of Meryod being populated by inbred morons.

I'm just not big on the idea that someone not involved with the original production gets to decide what works and what doesn't, and that ends up being what the audience gets.

I'll point to something like Outlaw Star. If you watch it on TV, you're going to get a version with changes made, like a bathing suit being painted onto Melfina, references to alcohol and the like being changed to something generic like "meal" and the censoring of an entire episode, despite it being important to the story. There's no such censoring on the DVDs, however.

That's the biggest difference right there. If a property is being dubbed with the intention of putting it on TV, then they are going to have to make whatever alterations are necessary to get it on the air, whereas if it is direct to DVD or Blu-ray, then they don't have to bend to the censors. Had DVD been around and had FUNimation been a bigger company at the time they got the Dragon Ball license, it's possible it could have received the same treatment Kai has.

Of course, a movie adaptation couldn't be further apart from a dubbing project. And even with that in mind, I have my doubts the Japanese dubs of the Harry Potter films are as far as FUNimaton's DBZ.

I know I've mentioned it a number of times in the past, but I've got to bring up the Japanese dub of Beast Wars.

People complain about how Frieza is portrayed in the original DBZ dub, well in Japan they had no problem changing the gender of an obviously female character into a male simply because the toys of female characters don't sell as well in Japan. The change had the side effect of creating something of a homosexual relationship between two of the characters on the show. Personalities were changed left and right, with dialogue added to objects which weren't even characters and basically anything done to make the show more comedic.

Oh yeah, as for the credits, those were altered as well.

The practice of changing openings and closings for J-Pop (and, presumably, editing the content for time to accommodate the longer sequences) persists to this day. The only anime series which I am currently aware of which retains that type archaic practice in English is Digimon Fusion.

So, yes, while the Dragon Ball dubs could have been handled a lot better and aren't all that great in the grand scheme of things, the Japanese are no less guilty of such offenses. So while people argue until they're blue in the face that Goku's father wasn't a brilliant scientist or any other inconsistency introduced by the dub, Transformers fans can argue that no, Airazor is not male and not in a homosexual relationship with Tigatron, Rattrap is not a childish character and Megatron does not shriek like a girl when surprised/interrupted or insist to be called "Mega-chan."

The moral of the story: all countries are capable of producing horrible dubs.