Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
TheGmGoken wrote:
Maybe Gero collected information was Birsu . Anyone realize Goku used Instant Kamehameha in this movie. Surprise no one said anything.
Well he didn't charge and then teleport, he teleported and then charged the attack once Birus lost sight of him.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Castor Troy wrote:Just finished watching it and here's my honest opinion.
It was amusing, but really suffered from poor pacing. I felt like it dragged a bit too much.
I felt that 90% of the movie was Bills and Whis eating stuff. It was like a Toriko movie with the DBZ cast in it.
The humor was a bit overdone just for the sake of having humor in it. While Vegeta's dancing was funny, it felt pretty out of character for him. The Pilaf gang really didn't add anything to the movie.
The action was too spread out and too far in between. The BGM (and especially the absence of it) was also pretty lacking to capture the tension in most of the fight with Bills and Goku. Although Flow's "Hero" played during the fight was pretty awesome.
I really didn't enjoy the massive overuse of the CGI backgrounds too. I felt like I was back in 1995 again playing a terrible PC movie that tries to be a game.
I really, really, really wanted to enjoy this movie much more than I did, but I felt that it lacked the impact of the Jump Special and what made the past DBZ movies enjoyable.
TheGmGoken wrote:
Maybe Gero collected information was Birsu . Anyone realize Goku used Instant Kamehameha in this movie. Surprise no one said anything.
Well he didn't charge and then teleport, he teleported and then charged the attack once Birus lost sight of him.
TheGmGoken wrote:
Maybe Gero collected information was Birsu . Anyone realize Goku used Instant Kamehameha in this movie. Surprise no one said anything.
Well he didn't charge and then teleport, he teleported and then charged the attack once Birus lost sight of him.
Stil the same thing in my book.
It kinda is and it kinda isn't.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Why? Well, in other movies, there is no setup. Five minutes into the movie, some androids randomly burst onto the scene and they start fighting and that's it. For me all the previous DBZ movies were boring throwaways. I never watched half of them.
This one actually felt like a few real episodes, taking the time to flesh out the situation.
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell
It is the same thing. And that's the bottom line because the GmGoken said so. But he did teleport and use kamehameha. Or in Nozawa's case.
KA
ME
HA
ME
YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I miss Nozawa in her prime. I could only imagine her battle cry in this movie
I got Mr. Satan on my side so it's not
Nozawa I thought did a pretty good job. Not the best, but still pretty good.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I loved the movie! Could have used some epic fighting but had plenty of humor, story and warmth to complement it! I gotta give it 6 of 7 Dragon Balls!
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
mAcChaos wrote:The pacing is what I liked about this movie.
Why? Well, in other movies, there is no setup. Five minutes into the movie, some androids randomly burst onto the scene and they start fighting and that's it. For me all the previous DBZ movies were boring throwaways. I never watched half of them.
This one actually felt like a few real episodes, taking the time to flesh out the situation.
To be fair. Akira Toriyama did have to change some things and made it as if it was apart of the manga serialization. So who knows what Toei had in mind. Also this movie had more time to flesh things out. Look at Broly's first movie. Compare it to other movies. It got a PLOT. The other movies were just meant to be the "ARC" in a nutshell and was made for the fighting
GS7X7 wrote:I loved the movie! Could have used some epic fighting but had plenty of humor, story and warmth to complement it! I gotta give it 6 of 7 Dragon Balls!
Make a corny joke like that again and I'll KAMEHAME YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH your ass.
dbzfan7 wrote:
I got Mr. Satan on my side so it's not
Nozawa I thought did a pretty good job. Not the best, but still pretty good.
It's not that she's bad. Which she's isn't. I find it funny how she does the kamehameha now.
The old days: KA ME HA ME HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Now: Ka me ha me YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I honestly love the YAHHHHHH! part. But I like the way she did it in the past better
I noticed Vegeta was taller than Bulma in the movie. In the JSAT special Bulma was taller.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
So, I saw it finally and it was pretty awesome! I loved the nod about Tarble and all the things. Pilaf and co. explaining their apperance and the antics was pretty funn..... There was so much great moments.
I think the dubbing was pretty good and better than it was in Kai. But I miss the Kikuchi music dearly, the only con in this great nostalgia ride.
Last edited by MCDaveG on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
penguintruth wrote:The whole damn point of the "YOU ARE NUMBAA WAN" speech in the Buu arc was Vegeta acknowledging that Goku is just plain better, and he's learned to live with it. If Vegeta is suddenly stronger than Goku, why even HAVE higher forms of Super Saiyan? Sorry, but Vegeta just isn't nearly as powerful as Goku. SSJ3 is higher than SSJ. End of story.
This is why the new manga ending was bullshit. "I'll beat you some day!" No, no you won't. That was the entire point of just a few chapters ago, that you knew you couldn't.
Vegeta admits that before he got a rage boost he didn't seem to think he had. Furthermore, while Vegeta may acknowledge Kakarot's superiority in the moment, that in no way makes Vegeta incapable of surpassing him. Vegeta started out stronger and even surpasses him multiple times in the series. He can do it again.
penguintruth wrote:If at the moment Vegeta was more powerful than Goku, he should have transformed into SSJ3, at least.
Which would have also been bullcrap. Vegeta can't surpass Goku if he can't even go SSJ3, and he shouldn't be able to do so.
Lol, what makes Vegeta incapable of attaining SSJ3 ?
penguintruth wrote:And knowing the average troglodyte DBZ fan, "Vegeta is officially more powerful than Goku now!" will ring out from every corner of the fandom and I will die a little more inside from having heard it.
Vegeta WAS stronger for a moment. This much is the true. At this point you just sound like a Goku fanboy that can't accept the fact that Vegeta got stronger than Goku for a few seconds. It's not a big deal. Goku would still stomp his ass because Vegeta needs a motivator to get that powerful for just a few seconds.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:I noticed Vegeta was taller than Bulma in the movie. In the JSAT special Bulma was taller.
Anime Vegeta always changes height. Vegeta was one time the same height as Goku. Puberty did Vegeta bad. No wonder he can't become stronger than Goku. His body is to focus on reforming his bones to be tall or short
mAcChaos wrote:The pacing is what I liked about this movie.
Why? Well, in other movies, there is no setup. Five minutes into the movie, some androids randomly burst onto the scene and they start fighting and that's it. For me all the previous DBZ movies were boring throwaways. I never watched half of them.
This one actually felt like a few real episodes, taking the time to flesh out the situation.
To be fair. Akira Toriyama did have to change some things and made it as if it was apart of the manga serialization. So who knows what Toei had in mind. Also this movie had more time to flesh things out. Look at Broly's first movie. Compare it to other movies. It got a PLOT. The other movies were just meant to be the "ARC" in a nutshell and was made for the fighting
GS7X7 wrote:I loved the movie! Could have used some epic fighting but had plenty of humor, story and warmth to complement it! I gotta give it 6 of 7 Dragon Balls!
Make a corny joke like that again and I'll KAMEHAME YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH your ass.
dbzfan7 wrote:
I got Mr. Satan on my side so it's not
Nozawa I thought did a pretty good job. Not the best, but still pretty good.
It's not that she's bad. Which she's isn't. I find it funny how she does the kamehameha now.
The old days: KA ME HA ME HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Now: Ka me ha me YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I honestly love the YAHHHHHH! part. But I like the way she did it in the past better
Oh? You think that was a joke? Clearly someone doesn't remember Planet Namek's old movie reviews.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
mAcChaos wrote:The pacing is what I liked about this movie.
Why? Well, in other movies, there is no setup. Five minutes into the movie, some androids randomly burst onto the scene and they start fighting and that's it.
Since they were screened with other films, the original DBZ movies didn't always have a lot of time to work with. You can't exactly do a lot of fleshing out in 40 minutes. Some of the longer movies did make a bit more of an effort in establishing a setup, most notably DBZ movies 8 and 13.
mAcChaos wrote:For me all the previous DBZ movies were boring throwaways. I never watched half of them.
How can you say all of the movies were boring throwaways if you've only seen half of them?
mAcChaos wrote:This one actually felt like a few real episodes, taking the time to flesh out the situation.
You know, I'm not sure how I feel about Toriyama's idea of trying to write this film as if he'd continued serialization. On one hand, it helps maintain that Dragon Ball flavour and it makes the film really feel like a part of the existing Dragon Ball universe, but on the other hand you want something a bit more grander, epic; something that can only be done on the big screen. But I guess DBZ is already a series that is suitably epic for the big screen and it doesn't need the sort of "scaling up" that a show like The Simpsons needed when it had its theatrical outing.
TheGmGoken wrote:The old days: KA ME HA ME HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Now: Ka me ha me YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
[über-nitpick]Well to me it sounds more like "KA ME HA ME HUWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"[/über-nitpick]
But yeah, she can't seem to do them yells quite as awesomely as she once did anymore... But then we can't really criticize her for that, can we?
I think we can all agree Vegeta's dance was the best part of the movie. Too bad Piccolo's singing was just a screenshot and not a scene.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
