Has Toriyama ever said his true feelings about GT?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Which just proves that you can't always trust the creator of a work, since BoG was worse than Evolution.

I have no words....

[Saiyatonian]

Which just proves that you can't always trust the creator of a work, since BoG was worse than Evolution.

Again, that's subjective. I personally thought BOG was awesome.

[Scarz]

Reading Rocketman's replies about his open disgust for BoG makes me smile every time for some reason.

[RandomGuy96]

Ditto.

[bleed0range]

And just because he hated Evolution...

While that would not surprise me at all, I'm curious to know how we know this. Did he say so in an interview?

He talked about it a few times while promoting BoG.

I don't understand what he meant by this quote in that article, "The God of Destruction Beerus, who I drew the design for myself (something I don’t usually do)." Doesn't he usually, if anything, design the characters in the movies and usually doesn't write any part of the story or script?

And Rocketman's gotta be trollin... ain't no way anything is worse then Evolution lol. I'm curious what his reasoning is behind it being so bad. I thought it was great.

[Herms]

Let's try and keep this on topic, ridiculous as it may be. There are other threads for discussing BoG.

Based on the Japanese fan name "Gomenasai, Toriyama-san." If the J. fans are convinced he hates it, it seems likely he probably does.

That's...silly on many levels. Japanese fans don't have magic insight into Toriyama's thoughts. They can only go off interviews, same as us. Unless they've spoken privately with Toriyama...which (let's be realistic here) they haven't. So since Toriyama has never publicly said anything negative about GT, if some Japanese fans think he hates it then they can't be basing this on any actual evidence.

Heck, joking that GT stands for "Gomennasai Toriyama-sensei" isn't even saying Toriyama himself hates it, just that GT is so bad that it's creators should apologize to Toriyama.

[goku the krump dancer]

And Rocketman's gotta be trollin... ain't no way anything is worse then Evolution lol. I'm curious what his reasoning is behind it being so bad.

I don't really like speaking for people but from what I can gather based off his other Battle of Gods related posts he

1. Hates the Super Saiyan God concept..
2. Hates that it was given to Goku..
3. Goku and Vegeta were depicted as being better/Stronger than Gohan or Gotenks..
4. Probably the SSJ Gohan recolor debacle.
5. The way SSJGod looks..
6. He believes that Gohan can never be Surpassed by Goku or Vegeta unless they fused or something.. which doesn't really have much to do with the film but ya know refer back to reason 3.

Now there could be more to it or I could be completely wrong IDK I'm not him nor can iIread his mind. Would be interesting if he was to make a thread sorta detailing why he despises the movie.

Funny enough some of the other people who dislike the film have the very same issues.

EDIT: Whoops got ninja'd, I don't mean to keep the tread off topic but yeah..

[Kunzait_83]

ain't no way anything is worse then Evolution lol.

Episode of Bardock is certainly at least on a par with it.

Anyhow Japanese politeness aside, I don't have much trouble believing Toriyama when he mentioned way back during GT's original airing that he at least liked the basic-most story concepts. Let's be honest, that is where GT certainly excels at most: on a very baseline conceptual level. GT story-lines are all mostly fantastic premise outlines in desperate need of far better execution. For the most part anyway.

[theoriginalbilis]

Which just proves that you can't always trust the creator of a work, since BoG was worse than Evolution.

I see what you're doing... Good show, sir. You amuse me. *slow clap*

[GS7X7]

Well, GT did have a hell of an ending and the first few and last several episodes were quite good.

It also had an amazing soundtrack. I don't know if Toriyama hated or disliked it but if he did dislike it, I don't think he has an intense loathing for it the way he does for the American film.

I'm sure there's a podcast or thread on this but, is there any evidence that GT was made solely to fulfill contractual obligations regarding DBGT Final Bout? (ie, that the/a anime -had- to be on the air when the game came out?)

(on that note, it's amusing that Goku waving goodbye at the end of Final Bout was once seen as the "farewell" to DB gaming fans as that was the final DB game for a long time) (well, at least I saw it as that)

[TheMightyOzaru]

And Rocketman's gotta be trollin... ain't no way anything is worse then Evolution lol. I'm curious what his reasoning is behind it being so bad.

I don't really like speaking for people but from what I can gather based off his other Battle of Gods related posts he

1. Hates the Super Saiyan God concept..
2. Hates that it was given to Goku..
3. Goku and Vegeta were depicted as being better/Stronger than Gohan or Gotenks..
4. Probably the SSJ Gohan recolor debacle.
5. The way SSJGod looks..
6. He believes that Gohan can never be Surpassed by Goku or Vegeta unless they fused or something.. which doesn't really have much to do with the film but ya know refer back to reason 3.

Now there could be more to it or I could be completely wrong IDK I'm not him nor can iIread his mind. Would be interesting if he was to make a thread sorta detailing why he despises the movie.

Funny enough some of the other people who dislike the film have the very same issues.

EDIT: Whoops got ninja'd, I don't mean to keep the tread off topic but yeah..

No Rocketman's biggest problem is that he doesn't like Goku very much and the very idea that Goku can surpass Super Vegetto is just blasphemous to him.

[GS7X7]

I personally don't think SSJGod is more powerful than Vegetto- there's no evidence to suggest otherwise and even SSJ 2 Vegeta unfused was able to do some damage to Bills.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I personally don't think SSJGod is more powerful than Vegetto- there's no evidence to suggest otherwise and even SSJ 2 Vegeta unfused was able to do some damage to Bills.

Toriyama already stated Beers is the strongest being in the history of Z. Whether or not Vegetto is stronger than Goku is subjective I guess, but Beers certainly is.

[Kunzait_83]

(on that note, it's amusing that Goku waving goodbye at the end of Final Bout was once seen as the "farewell" to DB gaming fans as that was the final DB game for a long time) (well, at least I saw it as that)

No, it definitely was seen that way. The whole "second generation" of games that DBZ had gotten throughout the 2000's is certainly unprecedented for most manga/anime franchises of its type. I mean, you've had whole brand new DB game franchises springing from the last decade comparable to the Butouden and Card RPG franchises of the series' original heyday. The most I figured it'd ever get at the time was, at best, the odd occasional one-off game here and there years later; sort of along the lines of Yu Yu Hakusho's (comparatively tiny and modest) 2000's output.

I don't think most current fans really appreciate how incredibly rare and unusual something like that is for these kinds of Japanese series, especially ones from Dragon Ball's general era. I mean just as one example, Ranma 1/2 was both from the exact same generation of manga/anime as DB/Z as well as being every bit as monumentally huge and iconic, and point me to the last Ranma video game you've picked up on the "new releases" rack. Same goes for other major TV-based franchise titles of its era like Sailor Moon or Slam Dunk and whatnot.

The closest comparison I can think of offhand in terms of this particular pattern is Fist of the North Star, which still had a sizable string of games produced during the decade following its end, the 90's in this case, before finally slowing its output down more in the 2000's the way that DBZ seems to finally be slowing down its game development in the 2010's.

[Metalwario64]

The closest comparison I can think of offhand in terms of this particular pattern is Fist of the North Star, which still had a sizable string of games produced during the decade following its end, the 90's in this case, before finally slowing its output down more in the 2000's the way that DBZ seems to finally be slowing down its game development in the 2010's.

Also, in terms of animation the new FotNS series and OVAs released in the mid 2000s were kinda FotNS's counterparts to the Jump Special and BoG.

Also, nice to see ya back again, it's been quite some time, and thought your post from a few months ago might have been a one-off thing. Always nice to see members from back in the day return. Welcome back.

[GS7X7]

I personally don't think SSJGod is more powerful than Vegetto- there's no evidence to suggest otherwise and even SSJ 2 Vegeta unfused was able to do some damage to Bills.

Toriyama already stated Beers is the strongest being in the history of Z. Whether or not Vegetto is stronger than Goku is subjective I guess, but Beers certainly is.

Is his name Bills or Beers? Makes me thirsty!


Well, Toriyama tends to forget stuff a lot... (didn't he say he forgot SSJ2's designs?)

I just wish they'd offered some kind of explanation for Goku/Vegeta not even bothering to try to fuse- if Bills could have just done some weird trick to defuse Gotenks easily that would have handwaved that overpowered technique away.

But, if he says Bills is the strongest, he is! (though Whis is stronger)

[Rocketman]

I just wish they'd offered some kind of explanation for Goku/Vegeta not even bothering to try to fuse

That would mean there would be a portion of the movie that Goku does not exist in. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED

[dbzfan7]

Toriyama already stated Beers is the strongest being in the history of Z. Whether or not Vegetto is stronger than Goku is subjective I guess, but Beers certainly is.

Toriyama isn't mentioned in the V-Jump source that says Birus is the strongest in the history of Z. But it's still promotional material so take it as you will.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/12/21/ad ... ry-v-jump/

[Cold Skin]

ON-TOPIC:

I can't imagine Toriyama hating it. Evolution really transformed the original material to the point of becoming unrecognizable.
GT felt off track, but was recognizable in style and design and seemed like a "good intention" attempt at properly expanding upon the original story and universe.
As many fans say, and I agree with them: some creative concepts that could have been great and had a strong potential, but just a weird and poor way to execute most of them in the end.

OFF-TOPIC:

I just wish they'd offered some kind of explanation for Goku/Vegeta not even bothering to try to fuse- if Bills could have just done some weird trick to defuse Gotenks easily that would have handwaved that overpowered technique away.

It's easy to imagine they wouldn't want to do it, since they already discarded that idea against Majin Boo. They don't like to rely on each other, they want to rely on their own strength.

Which is precisely what Goku dislikes about his Super Saiyan God form. They had to give Birus what he wanted otherwise he would have blown up the planet in a second if he didn't see his much wanted Super Saiyan God appear. So it's likely they accepted to unite their strengths, and perhaps they were curious of giving birth to this Super Saiyan God themselves.
Also, it is possible that it's only when becoming a Super Saiyan God that Goku realized/felt that the awesome God power was not his own and that he borrowed power to his friends, leading him to think this form is frustrating.

It is also possible that those two Saiyans are less disatisfied by the God form than by the fusion: while they still borrow strength that is not their own, they do keep their own body and personnality. In that sense, Goku is disatisfied by both ways but will accept the God form if the situation really calls for it, and Vegeta will refuse to fuse even if the universe is at stake (see the battle against Boo), but does show interest in becoming a Super Saiyan God next time, apparently not being disgusted by the process since he will borrow power, but keep his original self intact.

[Vijay]

GT lacks heart which was Toriyama.

Toriyama did Dragonball over 10 years (1984-1995) & couldn't care less of GT.

He just want's to get over with Dragonball & move on with his life.

Why would he care in the 1st place? He was a mangaka & the only thing important in his life woudl've been DB's manga sales. Not about TOEI's adaptations of his projects.

I think Toriyama even mentioned in an interview that he seldom watches DB/DBZ when it aired on TV.

Talk about GT.