Did Super Saiyan increase Goku's power in BoG?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What it is said is that it amplifies, while Super Saiyan draws power from hidden powers.

AKA multiplies power. So again, how is multiplication and amplification different besides numbers?

Kaio-ken multiplies the base power by x2-20, while Super Saiyan doesn't multiply, it adds more power from the hidden powers and happens to be 50 times greater.

[hleV]

If KK actually took ki and magically made it up to 20x higher, it would've been used in SS form(s). You're taking words multiplication and amplification literally, which IMHO is wrong. Simply speaking SS is a 50x multiplier, but SEG goes into detail and explains that it draws hidden powers. KK is also a multiplier, but it doesn't mean that the power just comes from nowhere and becomes 20x bigger.
KK is limited to x20 because base form cannot take more (hidden power). Transforming into a SS lets a Saiyan use 50x more than normal, because the new form is suited for that.

The way I see it, SS is "a better way to do what KK does", hence KK being completely replaced upon its introduction.

[dbzfan7]

Does SSJ have anything to do with hidden powers? The D7 doesn't say it and Herms says this

The second part deals with Goku’s power-ups: Super Saiyan, the Super God Water, and the potara. Again, mostly all stuff we’ve heard before, recounting the legend of the Super Saiyan and all that. It says Super Saiyan 3 has a calmer heart than Super Saiyan 2, which does seem true. It gives the same old thing about Super Saiyan making Goku fifty times stronger than his normal form. It also says that Super Saiyan 2 has two times the strength of regular Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 3 has four times the strength of Super Saiyan 2, so that’s something new.

The only hidden power thing I heard of was SSJ3 in D7. It doesn't seem like that's mentioned again in the SEG.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's a good theory, but not a fact. Personally, I believe that the SS body can't take any more power because of the strain (except if another transformation occurs), and hurts the body faster than it does in base, which is why Goku abandoned it, like he abandoned Super Saiyan Grade 2 because it consumes energy faster than Super Saiyan.

IMO, amplification is basically power that comes out of nowhere. Kamehameha for example, concentrates ki in a single spot & amplifies the power over 2 times. Other techniques like the Makankosappo or the Final Flash amplify the power even more. Kaio-ken does the same thing, but instead does this to the body instead of a ki blast. The Saiyan transformations & near-death power-ups (and rage boosts for Gohan) though do not amplify, they draw more & more power from the Saiyan's hidden powers.

Does SSJ have anything to do with hidden powers? The D7 doesn't say it and Herms says this

The second part deals with Goku’s power-ups: Super Saiyan, the Super God Water, and the potara. Again, mostly all stuff we’ve heard before, recounting the legend of the Super Saiyan and all that. It says Super Saiyan 3 has a calmer heart than Super Saiyan 2, which does seem true. It gives the same old thing about Super Saiyan making Goku fifty times stronger than his normal form. It also says that Super Saiyan 2 has two times the strength of regular Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 3 has four times the strength of Super Saiyan 2, so that’s something new.

The only hidden power thing I heard of was SSJ3 in D7. It doesn't seem like that's mentioned again in the SEG.

Both Super Saiyan 3 & Super Saiyan 4 are stated to draw power from the hidden power to it's limits (SS3 is the limit in the manga, SS4 in the anime), and Ultimate draws power beyond the limits, granting power beyond Super Saiyan 3. So, it is presumed that all the Saiyan forms draw power from the Saiyan's hidden powers.

Besides, just because a guidebook doesn't mention this, it doesn't mean that it's no longer true.

[dbzfan7]

Both Super Saiyan 3 & Super Saiyan 4 are stated to draw power from the hidden power to it's limits (SS3 is the limit in the manga, SS4 in the anime), and Ultimate draws power beyond the limits, granting power beyond Super Saiyan 3. So, it is presumed that all the Saiyan forms draw power from the Saiyan's hidden powers.

Besides, just because a guidebook doesn't mention this, it doesn't mean that it's no longer true.

Doesn't really make sense to me that drawing power to the limit is 400x. Why would everyone be 400x?

[hleV]

Doesn't really make sense to me that drawing power to the limit is 400x. Why would everyone be 400x?

The way I figure, hidden power AKA dormant power is something that a Saiyan always has, and it's always 400x more than one can normally access. Basically if you train and increase your BP by 1, your hidden power increases by 400 proportionally. SS transformations is the way to actually access it, and SS3 is what brings it all out. It's possible that this theory needs to be rethought through (in case Saichoro/Rou Kaioshin cases fuck with it), but that's what I go with.

The reason I think KK draws hidden powers as well is because that way things are kept simple. I find an explanation that SS & KK cannot be stacked because SS already goes beyond KK to be much better than KK being too risky to do as a SS. Basically Goku felt how SS has done a better job than KK and thus never attempted to do KK again.

Going by my theory, I guess SS3 couldn't amplify their power through ki techniques.

[dbzfan7]

Doesn't really make sense to me that drawing power to the limit is 400x. Why would everyone be 400x?

The way I figure, hidden power AKA dormant power is something that a Saiyan always has, and it's always 400x more than one can normally access. Basically if you train and increase your BP by 1, your hidden power increases by 400 proportionally. SS transformations is the way to actually access it, and SS3 is what brings it all out. It's possible that this theory needs to be rethought through (in case Saichoro/Rou Kaioshin cases fuck with it), but that's what I go with.

The reason I think KK draws hidden powers as well is because that way things are kept simple. I find an explanation that SS & KK cannot be stacked because SS already goes beyond KK to be much better than KK being too risky to do as a SS. Basically Goku felt how SS has done a better job than KK and thus never attempted to do KK again.

Going by my theory, I guess SS3 couldn't amplify their power through ki techniques.

I think it's just easier to think that the transformations allow more power. The SSJ transformations naturally increase power while Kaio-Ken does not.

[Blade]

In regards to Battle of Gods and Goku's fight with Birus I guess I'm in favor of the 'paper beats rock' argument.

What do I mean by that? Well, in Dragonball the strength of a character has always been determined generally by how large their Ki is. In Battle of Gods Goku can't sense Birus' Ki, because it's explained that, as a God, he has a different, God-ly power. Even Birus makes a comment that implies that fighting with Ki wont really do anything against him - because he's a God. That's what I mean by the 'paper beats rock' argument, in that in terms of conventional battle power it doesn't matter how much someone were to accrue, it would simply be ineffective against its God-ly counterpart.

I think that, instead of increasing Goku's power outright as such, Super Saiyan God allowed Goku to understand how to use whatever power that Gods use, in order to put up a resistance against Birus. Transforming into a Super Saiyan God merely helped Goku tap into that power and understand it.

I think that this argument goes a good length to explain how Goku could suddenly fight Birus in his base form and as a Super Saiyan following his ascension to Super Saiyan God in a way that doesn't simply mean his normal battle power has sky-rocketed. Not only that, but it's pretty consistent with things stated within the dialogue.

If I understood correctly, wouldn't that mean that Kami, Enma Daio, Kaio, and Kaioshin would be unbeatable from mortal fighters? Because they have godly ki as well.

That would be to make two assumptions, that firstly their divine powers are the same as those commanded by Birus and secondly that their command over those powers are as great as his.

It's stated within the script that Kaio and Kaioshin can sense Birus' power, which could imply that his powers relate to those of Kaioshin that Piccolo sensed during the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, but that's not necessarily the case.

[aarondirebear]

Super Saiya-jin God form is a bit like righteous might in Pathfinder...very little benefit for a very short duration.