When did super saiyans stop being special to you? Did they?

[Weejus]

A lot of people cite Battle of Gods and the Super Saiyan God transformation as the point that the concept of 'Super Saiyan' lost its value, but I think that was the point of SSJG. Bills is a GOD, so it would make sense that just a powerful form of a mortal race wouldn't be up to scratch with such a deity. The form's design and the parameters needed to attain SSJG make it clear that the form isn't meant to be just something else to throw onto the Super Saiyan pile, and that any SSJ form (bar God) was nothing compared to it.

I haven't watched GT, nor do I know anything about Dragon Ball Heroes, so I can't say anything about them.

[KentalSSJ6]

A lot of people cite Battle of Gods and the Super Saiyan God transformation as the point that the concept of 'Super Saiyan' lost its value, but I think that was the point of SSJG. Bills is a GOD, so it would make sense that just a powerful form of a mortal race wouldn't be up to scratch with such a deity. The form's design and the parameters needed to attain SSJG make it clear that the form isn't meant to be just something else to throw onto the Super Saiyan pile, and that any SSJ form (bar God) was nothing compared to it.

I haven't watched GT, nor do I know anything about Dragon Ball Heroes, so I can't say anything about them.

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record when it comes to SSJG.

Design wise, its fine. I dont mind it anymore. Its everything else about it I hate. The origin, the concept, all of it.

Its established as a legendary transformation in Saiyan culture and lore and yet Vegeta did not know about it.

It comes out of nowhere with no initial or prior buildup. If this was the Legendary Super Saiyan Vegeta babbled about on Namek and SSJ1-3 were just incomplete versions of this form, id be totally fine with it but nope, just random god form that comes out of nowhere.

Its method of attainment goes against everything that made SSJ1-3 special. Instead of pushing ones body and mind to the limit, this form is just given like nothing. There was no hard work involved or effort put into getting it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Its method of attainment goes against everything that made SSJ1-3 special. Instead of pushing ones body and mind to the limit, this form is just given like nothing. There was no hard work involved or effort put into getting it.

And the reason it's so easy to get the form is exactly why it lasts only for 7 minutes. Getting the form is the easy part. Keeping the form is the hard part.

[Saiga]

So it lasts longer than Super Saiyan 3 fusion, which is more difficult to achieve and much weaker.

Balance at its finest.

[KentalSSJ6]

Its method of attainment goes against everything that made SSJ1-3 special. Instead of pushing ones body and mind to the limit, this form is just given like nothing. There was no hard work involved or effort put into getting it.

And the reason it's so easy to get the form is exactly why it lasts only for 7 minutes. Getting the form is the easy part. Keeping the form is the hard part.

And depending on how you look at it, the power is now permanent for Goku at least. So essentially its Base Goku > Super Vegito now.

[Weejus]

Design wise, its fine. I dont mind it anymore. Its everything else about it I hate. The origin, the concept, all of it. Its established as a legendary transformation in Saiyan culture and lore and yet Vegeta did not know about it. It comes out of nowhere with no initial or prior buildup. If this was the Legendary Super Saiyan Vegeta babbled about on Namek and SSJ1-3 were just incomplete versions of this form, id be totally fine with it but nope, just random god form that comes out of nowhere. Its method of attainment goes against everything that made SSJ1-3 special. Instead of pushing ones body and mind to the limit, this form is just given like nothing. There was no hard work involved or effort put into getting it.

But that's the point. It's supposed to go against the Super Saiyan norm. With regards to Vegeta's lack of knowledge, Shenron states that the legend disappeared along with the good-hearted Saiyans, and IIRC the legend was established long before Vegeta's (or even King Vegeta's) time, and despite the fact that Vegeta met Bills as a child, at that point Bills didn't know about it either, as he wasn't told the prophecy until immediately before his 39-year nap.

[KentalSSJ6]

Another thing I wish they removed. The whole pure hearted Saiyans thing. It would have worked if they kept Bill's role as a being that infected races with evil but since they discarded that plot idea the whole pure hearted Saiyans fighting evil Saiyans makes no sense when compared to the established material that states Saiyans were warlike, violent warriors who thrived on battle. Its like they picked the parts they liked and discarded others.

[Blu-ray_Mistress]

It stopped being special to me by the time that Super Saiyan 3 was revealed.

[Weejus]

Another thing I wish they removed. The whole pure hearted Saiyans thing. It would have worked if they kept Bill's role as a being that infected races with evil but since they discarded that plot idea the whole pure hearted Saiyans fighting evil Saiyans makes no sense when compared to the established material that states Saiyans were warlike, violent warriors who thrived on battle. Its like they picked the parts they liked and discarded others.

I think it works in the film's favour. The fact that good Saiyans were never mentioned in previous Dragon Ball media further backs up the point that good Saiyans are long since extinct and have been forgotten, or that the violent Saiyans remembered them but considered them a blemish on Saiyan history.

[RandomGuy96]

When Future Trunks showed up.

[The Time Traveller]

When Future Trunks showed up.

When Trunks shows up is probably the dumbest moment of the show, it's too serious, he's a Super Saiyan, he has a sword and he's the son of Vegeta and Bulma, it's like some kind of fan character. The first time I found out about him was when a Turkish kid moved into my street and said it all happened, I thought he was lying because we weren't that far yet in the UK. Even the name "Trunks" sounded made up!

He even kills Freeza, the strongest established bad guy!

[TheAldella]

When Future Trunks showed up.

When Trunks shows up is probably the dumbest moment of the show, it's too serious, he's a Super Saiyan, he has a sword and he's the son of Vegeta and Bulma, it's like some kind of fan character. The first time I found out about him was when a Turkish kid moved into my street and said it all happened, I thought he was lying because we weren't that far yet in the UK. Even the name "Trunks" sounded made up!

To be fair, every character from the future sounds made up. Even Vegeta didn't believe it.

[Cursed Lemon]

When Trunks shows up is probably the dumbest moment of the show, it's too serious, he's a Super Saiyan, he has a sword and he's the son of Vegeta and Bulma, it's like some kind of fan character.

I have to admit, this made me laugh and is probably a fair assessment.

[sonikku956]

I only really felt something special for Goku's first transformation. After that....eh.

Although, Gohan's transformation into SSJ2 was almost as good.

[miguelnuva1]

SO far every new SSJ form has given me a wow factor and Goku has always given me a great reaction when reaching a form for the first time.

[DBZAOTA482]

Once the saiyans found more versions to it (though Gohan's SSJ2 did hit pretty hard).

[Blade]

It stopped being special to me by the time that Super Saiyan 3 was revealed.

I dunno, call me crazy - but to me this is the moment when it became special to me again, despite being the biggest example of dues ex machina Toriyama pulled out of the bag.

I've always loved Super Saiyan 3, perhaps because it's the transformation we see the least of - yet has the most limitations attached to it. It's quantified and grounded in a way that no other Super Saiyan transformation is - in that it can only be used for short periods of time, and it's incredibly inefficient - but I think that's what the Super Saiyan forms needed after Super Saiyan 2, which is essentially a shit-load of power at a canter with more or less no physical strain.

I think Super Saiyan 2 had to be superseded by something, otherwise things would have just been too easy. Even a Super Saiyan 2 with a huge power boost, thus making it relevant to the story when faced with increasingly stronger opponents, is still not grounded enough - as it's still essentially power with penalty.

[DBZ Mick]

Probably when everyone who seemingly just got slightly angry could become one.

Sooo...that would be after Vegeta became one.

Trunks suddenly showing up and being one was admittedly cool at first.

[Kid Buu]

Vegeta never bothered me as SSJ, but Trunks and Gohan did. See my signature for thoughts on Trunks, and I think Gohan was poorly handled in the Cell arc.

[baneofdemon22]

As soon as Vegeta turned SSJ. I was fine with Trunks, because he came from the future, so there was a mystery of how he became it and his introduction showcased how insanely powerful the form was. If it wasn't that, it would be that they could be beaten up by robots, created by a human scientist. That really ruined it from being the awe inspiring form. I still love the aesthetic, but that's all it became after that. I was never bothered by Goten and Trunks turning SSJ because of it. The "integrity was gone", after finding out it was a form that could defeat a creature, Frieza, that not only the universe feared, but the gods feared, and then earth made robots could be stronger. I was okay with Cell, because he was made of their cells. SSJ3 brought back my interest, being that it was a form that could only last a short time and only achieved through death. It was so odd looking, which was perfect for something Goku would achieve. It made it more intriguing when the Supreme Kai's could feel it's energy and Gohan said, "I'm not sure if that's a good thing."