Unpopular/controversial power level/strength opinions?

[B]

Just thought of a couple more; Gohan is Super Saiyan 2 while fighting Dabra and Krillin eventually rises up against Tenshinhan for the title of strongest human. A couple of things people like to dance around about and make more complicated.

[Godo]

Um guys...we're not supposed to argue controversial choices here. That's not the point of this thread.

It's a controversial opinion thread. His choice to believe Goku's base BP is 60,000 isn't an opinion when there are multiple sources that claim he's wrong.

That's why it totally qualifies as controversial and it has a place in this thread.
And it is an opinion even if he chooses to disregard the sources and it is in his god-given right to do so if he pleases, no matter how much it ticks you off.
He doesn't have to abide to your personal standards, no matter how "official" they are.
An opinion is a personal belief and doesn't cease to be one just because of that it is proven wrong, especially since the person chooses to hold on to it.

[dbzfan7]

Um guys...we're not supposed to argue controversial choices here. That's not the point of this thread.

It's a controversial opinion thread. His choice to believe Goku's base BP is 60,000 isn't an opinion when there are multiple sources that claim he's wrong.

Couldn't the same be said for many opinions. My first choice has nothing backing it up, but I choose to believe it.

[Kaboom]

dbzfan7 and Godo are right. I already asked a page or two ago to just let the thread serve its purpose and avoid letting it devolve into debates. If you're curious and want to ask someone WHY they hold an opinion that you find odd, that's fine, but can we please try not to start arguing about it?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Most opinions don't have multiple sources claiming they are wrong, but whatever. He can believe what he wants I suppose.

[Hellspawn28]

I put Piccolo at the end of DBZ at SSj2 level. Piccolo never stop training after Cell and Buu. Piccolo during the Cell games could beat Semi-Perfect Cell since he train in the Room of Spirit and Time and he might be around FPSSj level during the Buu saga.

[RandomGuy96]

Since all opinions are apparently allowed.

I think EoZ base Goku is stronger than SS3 Vegetto.

EDIT: Crap. That was meant as a joke, but that really is what BOG would have you believe, isn't it?

(Repasted from a mistake on another thread)

[dbzfan7]

Most opinions don't have multiple sources claiming they are wrong, but whatever. He can believe what he wants I suppose.

You can always make a thread based on it if it bother ya.

[Kamiccolo9]

P + M + (Z-CB)= KO

Where P=Piccolo
M=Magical Clothes Beam
Z=Anyone
C=Cell
B=Buu
KO=KO

Basically, I have just mathematically proven that Piccolo can defeat anyone aside from Cell and Buu through judicious use of the Clothes Beam.

[astrallite]

SSJ3 Gotenks is only 50% or so stronger than SSJ3 Goku. That there is not a 400x strength difference between them. Piccolo thought there was a chance Gotenks could beat Super Buu by including Super Saiyan in his calculations, and that Super Buu was supressed at the time.

[kuartus4]

Kaioken is a technique. As far as I know goku didn't specify he was using kaioken 2x. He just said he needed the technique in general.

He just says "Kaioken" when he starts to power-up. And as we know, the normal Kaio-Ken is what doubles his power.

He says he need to use the kaio ken. As in the kaioken technique. The multiplier he has in mind could be anything at this point. This quote also shows that it is nonsense to assume goku was suppressing his base vs ginyu. If goku feels he needs the kaio ken to win, then suppressing his base goes squarely against goku's goal.

Ginyu was stronger, but Goku was clearly faster. It makes sense for neither to be fighting at their highest level. Goku didn't even realize Ginyu was that strong until he put him in the full nelson after Jheese distracted him. If Goku was focused on finishing the fight as quickly as possible, he wouldn't have been fighting the way he was. He would've just used Kaioken and went from there. Ginyu would've been crushing Goku with ease if he was at his max because he'd be way stronger than Goku. The fight shows otherwise.

Do you have a quote where Ginyu says 60 k is enough to beat the ginyu force btw? All he says AFAIK is that he estimates goku to be at 60 k and he makes no mention of judging his power by what it would take to beat the ginyu force. But I could be missing something which is why I ask.

No, you're right. I just checked. He just estimates Goku's true power to be 60,000 after realizing the scouter reading was inaccurate.

And ginyu doesn't need to know about the kaio ken technique. Its implied he is good a feeling ki. . He feels that goku is holding back power against him and assumes the highest goku can go is 85 thousand. Which would make no sense if goku is already at 90 thousand. I mean ginyu has his scouter on. He can just check. And the point that has gone uncountered is that goku only reaches 90 k after using the kaioken power up. Goku showed he didn't even need to power up visibly to full power vs jeice and burter since he could achieve it in an instant. He doesn't need to power up like he did for ginyu to reach his full base power. Had goku been at 90 k in base without the kaioken, ginyu would have noted it before the kaioken power up.

He can only get a good feel for how strong Goku is by fighting him. There's no way he'd be able to pick up on something as powerful as Kaio-Ken by fighting Goku. The only thing he'd be able to accurately understand is Goku's normal capabilities. Goku wasn't fighting at his highest level and Ginyu wasn't, either. Goku doesn't need to power-up in Base at any point, as he can use his full-power whenever. Since the Kaio-Ken doubles the output of your full-power, it likely took Goku up to his true power of 90,000 and went on to double his power. That's the reason why I think his max level was noted so quickly. I'm guessing the initial scouter reading was Goku's suppressed level and stuff.

Since we can't debate this here, I'll leave it at this. I still disagree, but that's cool.

[Victorious]

What logic is there for Kaioshin being stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell?


Kaioshin is implied to be inferior to SSJ Teen Gohan, who's well inferior to MSSJ Kid gohan, who's way inferior to Full Power Perfect Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What logic is there for Kaioshin being stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell?


Kaioshin is implied to be inferior to SSJ Teen Gohan, who's well inferior to MSSJ Kid gohan, who's way inferior to Full Power Perfect Cell.

Yeah.... how the hell is Kaioshin supposed to be superior to Cell when he's weaker than SSJ Adolescent Gohan, whom is weaker than Cell Games Gohan whom is weaker than Perfect Cell.

[Kamiccolo9]

What logic is there for Kaioshin being stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell?


Kaioshin is implied to be inferior to SSJ Teen Gohan, who's well inferior to MSSJ Kid gohan, who's way inferior to Full Power Perfect Cell.

Yeah.... how the hell is Kaioshin supposed to be superior to Cell when he's weaker than SSJ Adolescent Gohan, whom is weaker than Cell Games Gohan whom is weaker than Perfect Cell.

You do realize you basically repeated the exact same thing that Victorious said, right?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I know... I'm agreeing with him.

[kuartus4]

What logic is there for Kaioshin being stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell?


Kaioshin is implied to be inferior to SSJ Teen Gohan, who's well inferior to MSSJ Kid gohan, who's way inferior to Full Power Perfect Cell.

Well, since you are asking for my logic, I guess I can give it. Kaioshin was able to survive and stand afterwards from Majin buu's angry explosion attack that seriously messed up majin vegeta's arm as a ssj2 who was bracing himself. Whereas gohan was near death from a simple ki blast from a majin buu prior to his power up. It would be like vegeta surviving Super Perfect Cell's ki blast that severely damaged ssj2 gohan's arm. I have kaioshin weaker than ssj2 teen gohan and stronger than FP cell. I just thinks he has to be at least at the lowest end of the ssj2 tier to even survive that blast, not to mention to stand for several minutes afterwards.

[Kamiccolo9]

I know... I'm agreeing with him.

I realize that. I'm just wondering why you bothered to say the exact same thing he said, instead of just saying "I agree."

On topic, I think that both Mr. Buu and Gray Buu are stronger than the Fat Buu that fought Goku, and that Fat Buu's full power is more or less equal to Super Buu's. He only achieved this right before he expelled Gray Buu, as that was the time when he was angriest, and he has been consistently shown to power up whenever he gets mad.

[Kid Buu]

I think Broly is stronger than Dabura, but I don't want to open a can of worms with the whole "was Gohan SSj1 or SSj2 debate" so I'll refrain from discussions on it.

[Darkprince410]

I know... I'm agreeing with him.

I realize that. I'm just wondering why you bothered to say the exact same thing he said, instead of just saying "I agree."

On topic, I think that both Mr. Buu and Gray Buu are stronger than the Fat Buu that fought Goku, and that Fat Buu's full power is more or less equal to Super Buu's. He only achieved this right before he expelled Gray Buu, as that was the time when he was angriest, and he has been consistently shown to power up whenever he gets mad.

I don't feel that way about Mr. Buu, but I've always felt this way in regards to the Pure Evil Buu and Fat Buu, that right before expelling the Pure Evil Buu, his battle power spiked up to where Evil Buu's battle power is, but because of Dai Kaioushin's influence, he was forced to expel the evil within him. Likewise, I feel that Pure Buu and Pure Evil Buu, being essentially the same being just with different forms, have the same battle power.

[Kamiccolo9]

I know... I'm agreeing with him.

I realize that. I'm just wondering why you bothered to say the exact same thing he said, instead of just saying "I agree."

On topic, I think that both Mr. Buu and Gray Buu are stronger than the Fat Buu that fought Goku, and that Fat Buu's full power is more or less equal to Super Buu's. He only achieved this right before he expelled Gray Buu, as that was the time when he was angriest, and he has been consistently shown to power up whenever he gets mad.

I don't feel that way about Mr. Buu, but I've always felt this way in regards to the Pure Evil Buu and Fat Buu, that right before expelling the Pure Evil Buu, his battle power spiked up to where Evil Buu's battle power is, but because of Dai Kaioushin's influence, he was forced to expel the evil within him. Likewise, I feel that Pure Buu and Pure Evil Buu, being essentially the same being just with different forms, have the same battle power.

That's understandable.
I have Gray Buu equal or slightly stronger than Pure Buu, based on both of their performances against Mr. Buu. Gray Buu dominated him, while Mr. managed to inflict some damage on Pure Buu, and actually managed to put up a fight for a little while. However, this could be due to their differences in temperment, what with Gray Buu being super-serious, and Pure Buu being a cackling maniac, but to each his own. With this being the Buu Arc, lots of things are subject to different opinions and interpretations