Unpopular/controversial power level/strength opinions?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't know if it's "impopular" because it's what is written/draw on the manga, but Freezer has the same brute power than Perfect Cell at around 12 million units more or less.

PS: This guide contradicts the manga in nearly every character it had to make a guess. 1500 Raditz? 4000 Nappa? King Piccolo above God? Please....

Are you saying Freeza's BP is 12 mill?

[RandomGuy96]

Freezer has the same brute power than Perfect Cell

What does this even mean?

[freezamite]

I don't know if it's "impopular" because it's what is written/draw on the manga, but Freezer has the same brute power than Perfect Cell at around 12 million units more or less.

PS: This guide contradicts the manga in nearly every character it had to make a guess. 1500 Raditz? 4000 Nappa? King Piccolo above God? Please....

Are you saying Freeza's BP is 12 mill?

Yes, around that number more or less. And also Perfect Cell.

What does this even mean?

Same strength, worse fighter.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't know if it's "impopular" because it's what is written/draw on the manga, but Freezer has the same brute power than Perfect Cell at around 12 million units more or less.

PS: This guide contradicts the manga in nearly every character it had to make a guess. 1500 Raditz? 4000 Nappa? King Piccolo above God? Please....

Are you saying Freeza's BP is 12 mill?

Yes, around that number more or less. And also Perfect Cell.

What does this even mean?

Same strength, worse fighter.

12,000,000 makes absolutely no sense, and Perfect Cell is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Freeza. I'm quite baffled that you think Cell is just as strong as Freeza .

[freezamite]

12,000,000 makes absolutely no sense, and Perfect Cell is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Freeza. I'm quite baffled that you think Cell is just as strong as Freeza .

12 million is in fact a pretty accurate number in my opinion, why doesn't make any sense to you? About Perfect Cell being far stronger than Freezer, well, I think that considering what Cell is, his strength on his "weaker" forms and some data that is given on the manga, there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.
He is a better fighter since he has a better control of his ki, more techniques, regeneration, and a trained body that allows him to fight at his maximum level without exhausting himself too soon. That would put him clearly above Freezer as a fighter, but not in terms of pure strength as I see it.

[TheGmGoken]

Then would't Assj crush Perfect Cell if he was only 12millions

[dbzfan7]

12,000,000 makes absolutely no sense, and Perfect Cell is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Freeza. I'm quite baffled that you think Cell is just as strong as Freeza .

12 million is in fact a pretty accurate number in my opinion, why doesn't make any sense to you? About Perfect Cell being far stronger than Freezer, well, I think that considering what Cell is, his strength on his "weaker" forms and some data that is given on the manga, there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.
He is a better fighter since he has a better control of his ki, more techniques, regeneration, and a trained body that allows him to fight at his maximum level without exhausting himself too soon. That would put him clearly above Freezer as a fighter, but not in terms of pure strength as I see it.

The Cyborgs were stated to be stronger than Freeza. Cell in perfect form is way stronger than the Cyborgs in his complete form.

[TheMightyOzaru]

12,000,000 makes absolutely no sense, and Perfect Cell is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Freeza. I'm quite baffled that you think Cell is just as strong as Freeza .

12 million is in fact a pretty accurate number in my opinion, why doesn't make any sense to you? About Perfect Cell being far stronger than Freezer, well, I think that considering what Cell is, his strength on his "weaker" forms and some data that is given on the manga, there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.
He is a better fighter since he has a better control of his ki, more techniques, regeneration, and a trained body that allows him to fight at his maximum level without exhausting himself too soon. That would put him clearly above Freezer as a fighter, but not in terms of pure strength as I see it.

It's not accurate. For Freeza to be 12,000,000, base Goku would have to be 300,000, which makes no sense. That would make his base form weaker than Freeza's first form. Piccolo, the guy with a BP higher than 1 Mill, was also in awe of Goku before he even started using Kaioken.

[dbzfan7]

I suspect trolling. I'm out.

[freezamite]

12,000,000 makes absolutely no sense, and Perfect Cell is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stronger than Freeza. I'm quite baffled that you think Cell is just as strong as Freeza .

12 million is in fact a pretty accurate number in my opinion, why doesn't make any sense to you? About Perfect Cell being far stronger than Freezer, well, I think that considering what Cell is, his strength on his "weaker" forms and some data that is given on the manga, there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.
He is a better fighter since he has a better control of his ki, more techniques, regeneration, and a trained body that allows him to fight at his maximum level without exhausting himself too soon. That would put him clearly above Freezer as a fighter, but not in terms of pure strength as I see it.

The Cyborgs were stated to be stronger than Freeza. Cell in perfect form is way stronger than the Cyborgs in his complete form.

Not at all. In fact, Krilin only speaks of someone stronger than Freezer when he is referring to a Perfected Cell (on the plane).
But I have some hard facts to support those numbers:
A badly injured Freezer was at the same level of a basic SSJ, who had a power of around 2.500.000-3.000.000 (depending on who and when). From here on, the rest of the powers can be deduced by the percentages Freezer gave us.

It's not accurate. For Freeza to be 12,000,000, base Goku would have to be 300,000, which makes no sense. That would make his base form weaker than Freeza's first form. Piccolo, the guy with a BP higher than 1 Mill, was also in awe of Goku before he even started using Kaioken.

Goku used KKx10 since the very beginning on the manga, so when Piccolo was impressed by Goku's power, he was already sensing Goku's KKx10.
Base Goku at 300.000, considering he is a low-rang sayan and that he was only 90.000 before, isn't by any means anything unreasonable.

[Kamiccolo9]

there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.

What?

[freezamite]

there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.

What?

Well, of course there are reasons to think he is stronger because a lot of people does, what I mean is that from my point of view, there's not a single reason to support it.

[TheGmGoken]

there's not a single reason to think he is stronger than Freeza was.

What?

Well, of course there are reasons to think he is stronger because a lot of people does, what I mean is that from my point of view, there's not a single reason to support it.

Cell even to Freeza? Power wise? I guess Goku ssj form got weaker not stronger. Goky didn't start using Kaioken till Freeza went 50%. Before that was a warm up(when Vegeta was alive)

[freezamite]

Cell even to Freeza? Power wise? I guess Goku ssj form got weaker not stronger. Goky didn't start using Kaioken till Freeza went 50%. Before that was a warm up(when Vegeta was alive)

No. Goku used KKx10 since the beginning, otherwise, he would have been killed by freezer with a single hit. Even if it's a "warm up", and since Goku had KKx10 completely mastered, one thing doesn't invalidate the other.
Even I, that I can't increase my ki even a single mili-unit and that I'm always at my maximum "ki", can do a warm-up. Freezer also does it when he transforms into his 100% form.
Warming up refers to the intensity of your movements, not the amount of ki used.

SSJ of course got stronger, but remember than Namek saga SSJ and beginning of Cell saga SSJ were only at the same level of a badly injured Freezer, which of course was much weaker than himself in perfect condition.

[TheGmGoken]

Cell even to Freeza? Power wise? I guess Goku ssj form got weaker not stronger. Goky didn't start using Kaioken till Freeza went 50%. Before that was a warm up(when Vegeta was alive)

No. Goku used KKx10 since the beginning, otherwise, he would have been killed by freezer with a single hit. Even if it's a "warm up", and since Goku had KKx10 completely mastered, one thing doesn't invalidate the other.
Even I, that I can't increase my ki even a single mili-unit and that I'm always at my maximum "ki", can do a warm-up. Freezer also does it when he transforms into his 100% form.
Warming up refers to the intensity of your movements, not the amount of ki used.

SSJ of course got stronger, but remember than Namek saga SSJ and beginning of Cell saga SSJ were only at the same level of a badly injured Freezer, which of course was much weaker than himself in perfect condition.

No he wouldn't. Vegeta wasn't fighting seriously and neither was Goku until Vegeta died. Goku > Vegeta. If you think Cell is 12 million then everyone must got weaker. Making Rosat pointless.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku used KKx10 since the very beginning on the manga, so when Piccolo was impressed by Goku's power, he was already sensing Goku's KKx10.
Base Goku at 300.000, considering he is a low-rang sayan and that he was only 90.000 before, isn't by any means anything unreasonable.

No he wasn't. The manga clearly displays a more bold aura when he's using Kaioken. I also didn't see any red in the Kanzenban or the anime.

Spoiler:

I don't see a bold aura as he's kicking Freeza's face in.

[freezamite]

No he wouldn't. Vegeta wasn't fighting seriously and neither was Goku until Vegeta died. Goku > Vegeta. If you think Cell is 12 million then everyone must got weaker. Making Rosat pointless.

What? Vegeta wasn't fighting against Freezer seriously you say? The same Vegeta that cried from desperation? And yes, Goku > Vegeta, but with KKx10.
Rosat of course had its meaning, it allowed the SSJ to reach power levels of above 10.000.000 when they were at around 3.000.000 (Trunks was even weaker than that).

No he wasn't. The manga clearly displays a more bold aura when he's using Kaioken. I also didn't see any red in the Kanzenban or the anime.
I don't see a bold aura as he's kicking Freeza's face in.

KKx10 aura was never drawn, and the page you use its a proof of that. The aura of the second image is a normal flying aura, not a KK aura, this is why Goku doesn't have it when he attacks at the last panel of that page.

KKx10 was implied since the beginning. It wasn't activated at any part of the fight, which means that Goku used it since the beginning.

[hleV]

This person is obviously not familiar with the series (decently translated to a language he understands, at least) and the info that is provided in the official guidebooks, so instead of pointlessly arguing, why not just point it out and move on?

[TheGmGoken]

No he wouldn't. Vegeta wasn't fighting seriously and neither was Goku until Vegeta died. Goku > Vegeta. If you think Cell is 12 million then everyone must got weaker. Making Rosat pointless.

What? Vegeta wasn't fighting against Freezer seriously you say? The same Vegeta that cried from desperation? And yes, Goku > Vegeta, but with KKx10.
Rosat of course had its meaning, it allowed the SSJ to reach power levels of above 10.000.000 when they were at around 3.000.000 (Trunks was even weaker than that).

.

Typo. Meant to say Freeza wasn't fighting seriously

[TheMightyOzaru]

True, I'm out. I'll leave you with the suggestion of actually reading the manga, and guide books. The guide books are translated here in the translations sections:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203221737 ... entai.com/
One more thing before I go though. Kaioken always has an aura. Goku doesn't have one when he's kicking Freeza's face.