Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.
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Blade
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Blade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:44 am

Vegard Aune wrote:Well even then it's not really that Kai's remastering got worse along the way, so much as it is just... them being less careful when handling the original cels while animating it?
.
There are less newly animated frames towards the end of Kai when compared to the beginning - so whatever their criteria was for deciding to reanimate a frame or section it appeared that it was met less and less as the series progressed. Therefore, in relation to the higher quantity of damaged/dirty original frames that made it into the final cut towards the end of Kai, it appears to me that the reasoning has more to do with a reduction in either budget, allocated time or skilled personnel than mere coincidence.

The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't appear to be consistent level of practice to the process, which appears to be corroborated by a higher occurrence of the poor quality original frames in the latter portion of the series. I accept your point that the Cyborg/Cell saga could quite simply have suffered more from poor animation the first time around, but the lower occurrence of new frames in that arc implies that the production staff were less interested or inclined to deal with it.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by kei17 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:51 am

Blade wrote:I'm not saying there are no instances of it earlier on, but there are certainly many more later on than at the beginning.
I rewatched some episodes from different arcs and still don't see it. Earlier episodes too have many instances.

It never bothered me compared to digitally redrawn shots anyway.

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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Blade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:00 am

kei17 wrote:It never bothered me compared to digitally redrawn shots anyway.
That's a separate gripe for me, I think for the most part they suck and stand out like un-hammered nails - but I would at least have liked a little bit more consistency of practice in how/when they were deployed. If the department that Toei had working on it were prepared to reanimate one frame due to its condition, then surely they should have done it for all frames that met such a criteria?

Of course we're moving into the realm of speculation when we talk about what their exact criteria were for replacing/reanimating frames, or under what circumstances they chose to repair a frame, or what sort of condition a frame needed to be in for them to allow it to make the final cut - but I can't believe, based on the evidence of the finished product, that they've been entirely consistent with whatever policy they adopted.

That is, if there was even any policy at all, and they weren't just doing it ad-hoc.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by kei17 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:24 am

It's cel animation. You can see them in almost every shot on every episode.

Image

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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Blade » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:46 am

kei17 wrote:It's cel animation. You can see them in almost every shot on every episode.

Image
Yes, but to the extent of the instance that I quoted? You can literally see inch-wide areas of movement of white artifact on the screen, and it's not just an isolated incident in the Cyborg/Cell arc.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Roland_ELoG » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:10 am

Those are film artifacts for sure? Some of them look like bits that weren't picked up by a fuzzy select tool. :|
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:31 pm

Again, I'm not just talking about the amount of dirt and smudges here. I'm talking about how the picture as a whole feels different in a bad way. It's especially noticable in the colors. Saiyan/Freeza Saga looks far more vibrant than the Android/Cell saga.

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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:30 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:Again, I'm not just talking about the amount of dirt and smudges here. I'm talking about how the picture as a whole feels different in a bad way. It's especially noticable in the colors. Saiyan/Freeza Saga looks far more vibrant than the Android/Cell saga.
I don't see that either.

Obviously not the same shots, but I think they're both good examples:
Image
Image

Both look equally vibrant to me.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Roland_ELoG » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:55 pm

Except the second one was pretty clearly drawn in Macromedia Flash.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:08 pm

Roland_ELoG wrote:Except the second one was pretty clearly drawn in Macromedia Flash.
So, the original Dragon Ball Z was animated with Flash?
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by TheAldella » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:24 pm

Yeah, um...Neither shot is redrawn, brah.
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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by kei17 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:00 am

XanatosVanBadass wrote:Again, I'm not just talking about the amount of dirt and smudges here. I'm talking about how the picture as a whole feels different in a bad way. It's especially noticable in the colors. Saiyan/Freeza Saga looks far more vibrant than the Android/Cell saga.
Can you show us some examples? I don't see it at all.

Roland_ELoG wrote:Except the second one was pretty clearly drawn in Macromedia Flash.
You thought it was a redrawn shot? :eh:

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Re: Kai remastering: What the hell happened?

Post by Roland_ELoG » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:46 am

kei17 wrote: You thought it was a redrawn shot? :eh:
That's the joke.
A YouTube channel with no AMVs on it? I know, it's hard to believe.

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