Is Dragon Ball a misogynist series?

[The Time Traveller]

Maybe Toriyama just preferred writing and drawing males because it's easier for him or something? That's why he drew bald characters and came up with a certain design for Super Saiyan!

Dragon Ball might have been a bit too far away from the female crowd, though it's a series by a man about men for boys that ran in a boy's magazine, and it still has female fans. Is there anything wrong with showing Videl having the crap beaten out of her when so much worse stuff has happened to the male characters? I think that's just white knight-ery or you're just being too sensitive. Videl's a fighter, not a weak housewife. The scene probably dragged on for too long, but hey, that's why they call it Drag-on Ball Z, EVERYTHING DRAGS ON!!!! Women aren't really treated poorly in the series, there's just a little bit of a dated view on some of them.

It's not worth over-thinking little details from a gag-manga fighting series from the '80s and '90s, it's the same as over-thinking "are video games sexist". There's nothing wrong with males being masculine or females being feminine, it can work out both ways or vice-versa, people can be who they want to be.

That's different. Food is something someone can't possibly avoid. Nothing much to be done about that.

Actually sex is good for us too, because if humans didn't have sex, we'd be extinct... and super horny.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, I have no problem with Videl getting beaten up. She's a fighter in a tournament. That's what's supposed to happen. Honestly, the characters' attitudes about it annoy me more than anything, making such comments about how Spopovitch isn't holding back despite the fact that she's ... A GIRL! What? So if you're paired up against a female in a tournament you're not supposed to try to win? Obviously the difference is that we see Videl sustain some really serious injuries such as teeth being knocked out, but that's just because Toriyama is displaying the effects of physical violence more realistically than before. Spopovitch isn't really doing anything different than, say, Tenshinhan did to Goku. Even Videl delivers a kick that breaks the guy's neck! But anyway, I'm getting off track here. Taking it at face value, while the effects on her are quite unsettling, I find it one of her best moments in the series. It really defines her character as someone who's as strong-willed and determined as any of the other fighting characters.

What I don't like about it is that it's basically the last thing of any import she does in the series. Videl is, quite honestly, my favorite female character in the series, and Toriyama spends so much effort developing her into someone interesting for a brand-new type of story... and then he decides that he's going to do yet another "save the world from a vicious evil" plot, and Videl immediately get stuffed onto a tower never to be heard from again. What. A. Waste. But I don't see that necessarily as a misogynistic thing as it is a, "No one but the blond-haired transformation guys can do anything," thing.

[The Monkey King]

Chichi could have sought training under Master Roshi and actually put up a decent fight against Goku in the 23rd TB for example.

I agree with the rest of your post but not this part.
I personally hate it when female characters can keep up with male characters who should obviously be way more skilled just because they're women. I think it does my more harm than good and is just silly 'Gurl Powah!" and is not at all progrssive.
Goku had already trained under Roshi, he then trained under Korrin and then God himself, it was only right that the battle was one sided.

[The Monkey King]

I find the video games at least to be somewhat misogynistic cuz [cant remember which exact game] three of the female leads Super moves are to have men come and help them lol
Gohan swoops in for Videl
17 teams up with 18
And Giru or Gill helps Pan
I can't remember what Kid Chi Chi and Arales super moves are in those Tenkaichi games and I know Zangyas is a solo as is Selypa's ...but STILL the main females of the series have men of robots come help them for their special attack
(That's pretty bad IMO)

Gohan swooping in to save Videl is just meant to be cute not hateful and in IW her great saiyaman2 special is done on her own.
Both Android 18's and 17's special move in Budokai 3 require help from the other.
In the budokai tenkaichi series 18 has her own special move while 17 has 18's help for his. Is BT misandrist now?
In BT3 Giru only comes in for one attack and Pan's ultimate attack is done on her own.

Honestly the DB video games don't hate women, stop reaching.

[Fizzer]

Chichi could have sought training under Master Roshi and actually put up a decent fight against Goku in the 23rd TB for example.

I agree with the rest of your post but not this part.
I personally hate it when female characters can keep up with male characters who should obviously be way more skilled just because they're women. I think it does my more harm than good and is just silly 'Gurl Powah!" and is not at all progrssive.
Goku had already trained under Roshi, he then trained under Korrin and then God himself, it was only right that the battle was one sided.

I could have phrased that better. Even Goku's battle with Tenshinhan was one-sided once Goku really started trying, and I really doubt Chichi could have caught up to Tenshinhan even if she trained under Roshi, climbed Karin Tower etc. I just mean I'd have liked it if it had taken more than a gust of wind from Goku's movements to beat her, if there's been some kicking, blocking and jumping before she inevitably went out of the ring, because she was the only female fighter at that point and what happened just makes her seem so feeble. I'd just want her to be in a similar class to Yamcha and the others, specifically to address the imbalance, but make it reasonably by giving her adequate training.

[EXBadguy]

My reaction to this thread.

And...

Is there anything wrong with showing Videl having the crap beaten out of her when so much worse stuff has happened to the male characters? I think that's just white knight-ery or you're just being too sensitive. Videl's a fighter, not a weak housewife.

THANK. YOU!

I mean seriously, at least it's not like Naruto when most of the girls were just weak side bitches for the fanservices, I mean the only girl who went out there to fight was Hinata, and it was more than once. I admit the whole series didn't have that much female fighters, but when there were some, OMG they are strong, physically and mentally. Bulma is a strong mother. Also Chichi, Android 18, and Videl are strong fighters and mothers too.

And no offence, but this thread reminds of this http://youtu.be/ABiPHyaKgTw . When she failed to realize that it was all for comedic purposes, that's when I was mad at her review.

[Roland_ELoG]

In BT3 Giru only comes in for one attack and Pan's ultimate attack is done on her own.

That and Giru is a motherFUCKing robot. Which most likely means he has no boy-parts. Or "winky" as old Vegetto EX would say.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dragon Ball isn't a misogynist series. It's a racist series.... racist against non-saiyans.

You want misogyny then watch Two and A Half Man, Fairy Odd Parents, DearS, Death Note or Naruto.

[Fizzer]

Dragon Ball isn't a misogynist series. It's a racist series.... racist against non-saiyans.

You want misogyny then watch Two and A Half Man, Fairy Odd Parents, DearS, Death Note or Naruto.

It's been a while since I saw Death Note, but where is the misogyny in that?

[DBZAOTA482]

Dragon Ball isn't a misogynist series. It's a racist series.... racist against non-saiyans.

You want misogyny then watch Two and A Half Man, Fairy Odd Parents, DearS, Death Note or Naruto.

It's been a while since I saw Death Note, but where is the misogyny in that?

Misa. 'Nuff said.

[UltimateHammerBro]

The scene probably dragged on for too long, but hey, that's why they call it Drag-on Ball Z, EVERYTHING DRAGS ON!!!!

This made my day

[Polyphase Avatron]

Not any more than most shounen manga.

[Ringworm128]

Nowadays it's getting to the point where if the lead character or one of the main characters isn't a tough no nonsense flat chested woman who beats up big macho men people will say the show, movie game etc is sexist.

[rereboy]

Nowadays it's getting to the point where if the lead character or one of the main characters isn't a tough no nonsense flat chested woman who beats up big macho men people will say the show, movie game etc is sexist.

It pretty much feels like that, yeah.

[Fizzer]

Nowadays it's getting to the point where if the lead character or one of the main characters isn't a tough no nonsense flat chested woman who beats up big macho men people will say the show, movie game etc is sexist.

It pretty much feels like that, yeah.

So a show is sexist if it doesn't portray a female character in a way that is highly unrepresentative of the real population? Sounds about right. I heard people saying that Doctor Who was sexist because Amy's pregnancy was a plot device.

[TheGmGoken]

Nowadays it's getting to the point where if the lead character or one of the main characters isn't a tough no nonsense flat chested woman who beats up big macho men people will say the show, movie game etc is sexist.

True. If the main character has ass and tits but is badass people will say it's sexist and she is sex appeal. I'm not saying some games, movies, or shows aren't sexist. But lots of them are falsely accused of being it.

Honestly I don't see how misogynist matches DB. Bulma show her ass and breast for Dragonballs, flirts with Blue so she can live, and Ran Ran flirts to win money. They are the ONLY possible sexist(AT BEST) things in there and that's even saying a lot since it was just comedic. Toriyama have a bad time writing women. Not an issue. Like I can't even think of why this makes DB sexist. Bulma walks around with a shirt and panties around Gohan and Krillin. So what? I know many people who do that. It's not a big deal. Goku and Vegeta train with their shirts off and always lose their shirts. Does this mean Toriyama is sex appealing to the women? Hell Goku and Gohan been naked quite a few times. Does that mean Toriyama is promoting boys to walk around naked?

Videl getting beat is not sexist at all. She was in a fighting Budokai! Was she suppose to say "FUCK THE PLOT" and beat Sppovich? She did pretty good and still got beaten down. Goku and Vegeta took beatdowns worst than that. Krillin got FUCKING impaled. Yet all because Videl a female it's sexist. Seriously this is unbelievable. What about when 18 kicked Vegeta's ASS and broke his FUCKING arm. I bet that wasn't sexist. But Videl get her ass beat and it's sexist. What the fuck. It's more sexist to say that it's sexist because of these things. It's not fucking sexist. DB is not a misogynist series. It's an ACTION-Comedy-Adventure series. If a girl fights she might lose. If she does then she does. It's how DB works. I bet if Toriyama was a female the series would't be accused of being fucking sexist. Seriously this is worst than the whole "Gaming hurts kids" debate. Ugh I think I need a chill pill.

Sorry if I offended anyone or went overboard. But this kind legit pissed me off.

[JulieYBM]

I don't think it is. As much as Toriyama claims to not know how to write women I think he's crafted quite few unique personalities. Blooma being vulgar and high-maintenance, Mai and No. 18 being somewhat demure, and Videl being the sporty girl with moxy. There's not much in the way of repetition with the girls and I think that makes for some entertaining scenes.

[Kid Buu]

Well, there's quite a lot of posts in this thread. Can't respond to everyone. So I'll just reply to the ones that stick out, sorry didn't mean to ignore everyone.

@Ashelia & Fizzler Honored that your first post is in my thread, Ashelia! Nice input from the both of you, it has helped change my perspective on things.

@DBZAOTA482: How is Fairly Odd Parents misogyny? I used to watch that cartoon a lot as a child, never heard that complaint though.

@The Time Traveller & Gaffer Tape As far as the Videl beatdown goes, I think Gaffer Tape summed it up for me when he said "physical violence more realistically than before." A lot of the violence, especially in that arc in particular, felt cartoony and thus no where near as intimidating. I suppose we do get some other brutal beat-downs, such as Vegeta crushing Goku in the Saiyan arc. But the Videl one just stands out to me.

Just something I want to say to everyone: There's been a few comments on here that seemed to have taken offense to my thread. I didn't mean to offend anyone so I apologize if I did. I merely asked for an opinion. Like the post above me displays, its easy to just to state why you disagree without taking too much offense.

[RandomGuy96]

Misogynist?...no, I wouldn't say so. Sexist? Yes, it can definitely be seen that way. It can also be seen as quite homophobic, given all two of the homosexual characters in it.

[Ringworm128]

So if a show doesn't have 20 openly gay characters with the occasional gay rights parade episode it's homophobic?