Raditz/Nappa Battle Power

[Fionordequester]

But in this case, if we are discussing this it's because someone posted a legit question regarding this, and it seems that precisely him it's one of the few that at this point defends the same position as me.
If I think someone is giving him what I personally consider wrong information, even I this could end with me banned from the site, I will give my opinion so the one that makes the question at least can know that there's someone that thinks how I think.

He wanted to know other people's stance regarding something he was interested in, and I let him know what my stance is and why I think this is the most valid one. It happens that he already had a very similar opinion than me, so more than convincing him I've been defending his point of view since the beginning.

Now if as I said this is something that makes other people to enrage and to become mad, that's not my fault and I won't shot up.

I appreciate your advice and I thank you for it, but if some adjective describes me I would say that this is "obstinate". I will admit being wrong if I'm proved to, but I won't change what I have to say only because it can be troublesome to me.
Regards!!

If that's the case, you probably ought to PM that person via email. And are you POSITIVE you never hurled any personal insults at anyone? Because that's unjustifiable no matter what, even if you yourself were insulted (two wrongs don't make a right).

[freezamite]

If that's the case, you probably ought to PM that person via email. And are you POSITIVE you never hurled any personal insults at anyone? Because that's unjustifiable no matter what, even if you yourself were insulted (two wrongs don't make a right).

Oh, so everything that's not repeating what you think has to go via PM? I can't disagree with you here in public? Is that what you mean?
And regarding your question, I still don't get it. Yes, two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to criticize something, then start with that mocking Rocketman tried just two posts ago.

[Fionordequester]

Oh, so everything that's not repeating what you think has to go via PM? I can't disagree with you here in public? Is that what you mean?

For now, I don't think it would be a good idea, and it's because answers like these can be easily construed as you mocking me. Any further attempts to continue this argument will only seem like passive aggressiveness, until you either wait for a bit, say "you know what, let's just agree to disagree", sorry, or whatever you can do to calm things down.

And regarding your question, I still don't get it. Yes, two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to criticize something, then start with that mocking Rocketman tried just two posts ago.

Rocketman isn't in eminent danger of turning a large chunk of the forum against him. He doesn't seem to need my help like you do. That said though, anyone who attempts to intentionally flame bait Freezamite or mock him from here on out is going to get on my FAIL list as well, and will be given a good talking to by me.

[Kaboom]

Q: When is 100% not 100%?
A: When you're trying to justify your made-up rules for power levels.

No, seriously, this is not the way to answer

I dunno, seems to get the point across pretty well to me.

And it's a good point, at that. Something like 'Freeza's not at his true 100% because of his injuries" would be a MAJOR plot point, and is definitely something that'd be mentioned were it the case. There was no indication that Freeza's power was less than it should be. In fact, it was even stressed how Goku took great risk because he intended to fight Freeza "at his best," and if that weren't the case then the fight would lose a whole helluva lot of meaning.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If he was still in his bulked state, that means that he was at his 100% form, using 100% of the strength he had left.

Well, I disagree about that. Either you are at 100% or you are not.

Goku abandons the fight when he knows that Freezer can't possibly win, that means that until that point he thought Freezer had a chance.

No, Goku abandons Freeza when he saw that his pride was destroyed, and when he saw that the fight wasn't going to get better because Freeza's power had begun to decrease. That was when he was satisfied.

So he lost the Kamehame exchange against Freezer loosing his consciousness in the process and taking heavy damage in order to avenge Krilin?

Goku never lost consciousness in the manga, that's filler. And Freeza never won the clash, he just got out of the clash, and took Goku by surprise.

Don't we know how many humans Cell had absorbed, how many strength an average human has and how he compared to Vegeta SSJ before and after the absorptions?

Could you just explain the whole thing? I'm lost here, I don't get what Cell has to do with any of this...

Yes, that's if Kaio-ken x20 < SSJ, but as I explained, Freezer like every other character in DB (besides the few with unlimited energy) loses strength every time he is injured, and he was badly injured by when Goku reached his 100% form.

But Freeza was supposedly at 100% Full Power, so Super Saiyan > Kaio-ken x20 in my book.

How many paragraphs did he had to write? Maybe he was in charge of other sections of the guide...

The Daizenshuu has lots of new information too, maybe these new info came from him. Maybe some of them came from him. Or maybe nothing came from him. Maybe he was just busy supervising, maybe he was busy writing new stuff about it. But we don't know, all we know is that he supervised them & approved them, and that's enough for me to take all the new stuff from the guides that don't contradict the manga and accept them in my personal manga canon. You may disagree. We are both cool then.

Which means that he didn't see that, because otherwise he wouldn't have said what he said on that interview he made. I mean, if he said the 50x multiplier was weird and that he drew the manga with a 10x increase on mind, that means that he disagreed with the 50x multiplier.

Or, he hadn't thought of the x50 multiplier, and he accepted it after seeing it in guides like the Daizenshuu & SEG, which he supervised.

[Fionordequester]

Something like 'Freeza's not at his true 100% because of his injuries" would be a MAJOR plot point, and is definitely something that'd be mentioned were it the case. There was no indication that Freeza's power was less than it should be. In fact, it was even stressed how Goku took great risk because he intended to fight Freeza "at his best," and if that weren't the case then the fight would lose a whole helluva lot of meaning.

Kaboom, remember that debate we had all about whether or not Gohan was an SSJ1 or SSJ2 against Dabura? And how you were so certain that, due to him supposedly being more angry at the tournament than he was against Dabura (in spite of having Dabura kill an innocent person and turn two of his best friends to stone RIGHT BEFORE HIS EYES). And that was the reason he could supposedly only go SSJ1 against Dabura, despite Vegeta and Goku never once stopping to question why Gohan would be using SSJ1 instead of SSJ2, and in spite of the fact that Goku said that Dabura was as strong as Cell (which you explained away by having Goku APPARENTLY mean that Dabura was only as strong as Perfect Cell at his ultra suppressed level in his fight against Goku...even though Goku knew full well that wasn't Cell's complete power)? And despite Gohan's AMAZEMENT that Fat Buu could dominate DAbura, even though Dabura was apparently only SSJ tier? And despite Gohan, at NO POINT, stopping to question "huh, I can't use SSJ2? That's strange, what's going on?!"

I don't know about you, but I always thought that the theories shared by those who were "Pro SSJ1" were absurd precisely BECAUSE of the point you're trying to use to refute Freezamite's claim, that if all that were really the case, that Akira Toriyama would have been WAY more obvious about that rather than just having Gohan's hair and aura be a bit different. If all that were truly the case, that would've been a MAJOR plot point (rather than just having Gohan be all "I dunno...I'm not sure I can GET super mad like I once could..."). And yet, I accepted your viewpoint even though it was, in my opinion, extremely shaky.

So could you please do the same for Freezamite? Even if you feel that the story would've been more blunt about it had that been the case?

[freezamite]

Rocketman isn't in eminent danger of turning a large chunk of the forum against him. He doesn't seem to need my help like you do. That said though, anyone who attempts to intentionally flame bait Freezamite or mock him from here on out is going to get on my FAIL list as well, and will be given a good talking to by me.

I'm sorry that I interpreted your help as an attack, but I registered here to give my opinion on the series and even if I'm the first to want a calmed discussion, as I said, if someone can't accept it with respect then I won't censure myself even if I will try to not fall into any provocations or to insult anyone. Thanks for the advise, though.

I dunno, seems to get the point across pretty well to me.

What I criticized is the way he expressed, not what he said. Besides that, this is not what I was saying.

Something like 'Freeza's not at his true 100% because of his injuries" would be a MAJOR plot point

Yes, a MAJOR PLOT POINT THAT IS VALID FOR 95% OF THE FIGHTS OF THE SERIES. Everyone loses energy with the injuries, so the same goes for Freezer if the opposite isn't explicitly told.

and is definitely something that'd be mentioned were it the case.

It was mentioned EXPLICITLY dozens of times.
Raditz speaking of the energy he lost after Gohan's attack.
Vegeta getting weakened to the point where Gohan could fight against him.
Zarbon also being weakened after Vegeta's attack after throwing dust into his eyes, and Vegeta taking that into account.
Every fight against Freezer where Goku knew if someone got injured because of how much his strength decreased.

In other words, every single character that got injured lost energy in the process. But if you want explicit examples of Freezer, we also have them. Besides the one I pointed before (he loosing too much energy to the point Goku quit the fight, or he being unable to fly after receiving a fatal injury), he also said some lines even before using the 100% of his strength.

There was no indication that Freeza's power was less than it should be.

Yes, there were multiple indications:
1. This sentence:

"Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…[ ] Even having taken this damage, there’s still no way I’ll be done-in by the likes of you!”

doesn't have any sense if he didn't lose any strength. I mean, if he was invulnerable to the damage he took, why would he say "even having taken this damage" as if that affected him somehow?

2. After winning the KameHame exchange and letting Goku unconscious (even if it only was for a few seconds) he says something on the line:
"I should leave that planet, if I get stuck into the explosion I will lose even more strength".
This isn't literal because this isn't translated on the strength checker guide. But unless every single version of the manga I've read has a translation error, this is what he said.

Look, you're the ones saying that what has been true for every single character on this series isn't valid for Freezer, so you are the ones that have to demonstrate that Freezer was immune to the injuries, which is a bit difficult since after being cut by his own Kienzan he was left wakened enough to not being able even to fly while at his bulcked 100% form.

Well, I disagree about that. Either you are at 100% or you are not.

He wasn't at 100%, but he was using the 100% of strength he had, which is different. Since you are the ones saying that Freezer was an exception and that unlike any other character in the series besides the androids or Bu he had infinite energy that wasn't lost with the injures, you have to proof that.
Can you demonstrate that:
1. Freezer healed himself in the process of using 100% of his strength?
2. Freezer didn't lose energy when he got injured?

And while you're at it, I will make you another question: Why did Goku give Perfect Cell a senzu bean?

Goku never lost consciousness in the manga, that's filler. And Freeza never won the clash, he just got out of the clash, and took Goku by surprise.

In the anime Goku lost consciousness enough time for Gohan to enter the fight, and that was filler. On the manga he lost consciousness or he god injured enough to stay at the bottom of the lake enough time for all the namekians to revive and for Freezer to think in leaving the planet.

Could you just explain the whole thing? I'm lost here, I don't get what Cell has to do with any of this...

Well, I explained it on another thread but for now, instead of opening a new discussion front, I prefer to let that for latter.

But Freeza was supposedly at 100% Full Power, so Super Saiyan > Kaio-ken x20 in my book.

Being at 100% full power means to fight at the maximum of your strength. The only difference is that Freezer instead of saying "I won't fight with all my strength" said "I will fight with 50% of my strength". Vegeta at earth, who was unable to hid his power even for a bit, was at his 100% full power "form" the whole time.
One thing is the power you have, and another is the power you're using.
Freezer was at his 50% before and after the Genkidama, because he used 50% his strength before and after the Genkidama. But since he got badly injured, his 50% after the Genkidama was much weaker than his 50% before it. And the same applies when he is in his 100% form unless you can prove that Freezer had unlimited energy.

The Daizenshuu has lots of new information too, maybe these new info came from him. Maybe some of them came from him. Or maybe nothing came from him. Maybe he was just busy supervising, maybe he was busy writing new stuff about it. But we don't know, all we know is that he supervised them & approved them

How do you know that he approved and supervised them? You yourself say that "we don't know" in what was he working, and since he publicly disagreed with the 50x increase then it's more logic to think that he didn't know, don't you think?

Or, he hadn't thought of the x50 multiplier, and he accepted it after seeing it in guides like the Daizenshuu & SEG, which he supervised.

If he drew the manga with 10x on mind, it means that every comparison he made between the SSJ and other fighters was with that 10x on mind. Since the manga was finished before the Daizenshuu 7 was published, then he couldn't possibly change what he had already drawn even if he wanted, which means that 10x is what the manga implies according to him.

[FireLordZuko]

I have to agree with everyone else Freezamite. I realize you're just trying to find some sense of coherency, but this is Dragon Ball. It's not always coherent.

[freezamite]

I have to agree with everyone else Freezamite. I realize you're just trying to find some sense of coherency, but this is Dragon Ball. It's not always coherent.

Well, you're free to agree with anyone but Dragon Ball having some incoherences doesn't mean everything has to be that way, and even less if the author himself has said that he went with the "coherent" version of the facts

[FireLordZuko]

Stuff like Raditz and Nappa's BPs are small potatoes. It's not the end of the world they don't match up with other gaps. Honestly though, even the given numbers in the manga present gap issues. Vegeta was hit with an attack 77% stronger than he was, and he lived with a few scratches.

[freezamite]

Stuff like Raditz and Nappa's BPs are small potatoes. It's not the end of the world they don't match up with other gaps. Honestly though, even the given numbers in the manga present gap issues. Vegeta was hit with an attack 77% stronger than he was, and he lived with a few scratches.

Which attack was that? O_O

[FireLordZuko]

Kaioken x4 Kamehameha. There was no Gyrikku Ho defending him when he was hit with that thing so it was 32,000 on 18,000. A 77% difference.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, I disagree about that. Either you are at 100% or you are not.

He wasn't at 100%, but he was using the 100% of strength he had, which is different. Since you are the ones saying that Freezer was an exception and that unlike any other character in the series besides the androids or Bu he had infinite energy that wasn't lost with the injures, you have to proof that.
Can you demonstrate that:
1. Freezer healed himself in the process of using 100% of his strength?
2. Freezer didn't lose energy when he got injured?

And while you're at it, I will make you another question: Why did Goku give Perfect Cell a senzu bean?

Cell didn't power-up into a different state that forcibly increases ones muscle mass & power, while Freeza did.

Goku never lost consciousness in the manga, that's filler. And Freeza never won the clash, he just got out of the clash, and took Goku by surprise.

In the anime Goku lost consciousness enough time for Gohan to enter the fight, and that was filler. On the manga he lost consciousness or he god injured enough to stay at the bottom of the lake enough time for all the namekians to revive and for Freezer to think in leaving the planet.

All this happened in less than a minute. There is no indication that Goku lost consciousness in the manga.

But Freeza was supposedly at 100% Full Power, so Super Saiyan > Kaio-ken x20 in my book.

Being at 100% full power means to fight at the maximum of your strength. The only difference is that Freezer instead of saying "I won't fight with all my strength" said "I will fight with 50% of my strength". Vegeta at earth, who was unable to hid his power even for a bit, was at his 100% full power "form" the whole time.
One thing is the power you have, and another is the power you're using.
Freezer was at his 50% before and after the Genkidama, because he used 50% his strength before and after the Genkidama. But since he got badly injured, his 50% after the Genkidama was much weaker than his 50% before it. And the same applies when he is in his 100% form unless you can prove that Freezer had unlimited energy.

Freeza's power fell below 50% after the Genki Dama. However, his power got restored once he increased his muscle mass, which is why he said he would power up to 100% Full Power. Freeza's power dropped below 100% after fighting with Goku, and then it fell even more once he got sliced in pieces, but his muscle mass just didn't decrease.

Also, do you have any statement about a half-dead fighter like Vegeta in Saiyan arc saying "I'm using 100% of my power"? Because if you are that much injured, you can't be at 100% Full Power, like Freeza was.

The Daizenshuu has lots of new information too, maybe these new info came from him. Maybe some of them came from him. Or maybe nothing came from him. Maybe he was just busy supervising, maybe he was busy writing new stuff about it. But we don't know, all we know is that he supervised them & approved them

How do you know that he approved and supervised them?

Isn't he credited as the supervisor?

Or, he hadn't thought of the x50 multiplier, and he accepted it after seeing it in guides like the Daizenshuu & SEG, which he supervised.

If he drew the manga with 10x on mind, it means that every comparison he made between the SSJ and other fighters was with that 10x on mind. Since the manga was finished before the Daizenshuu 7 was published, then he couldn't possibly change what he had already drawn even if he wanted, which means that 10x is what the manga implies according to him.

[/quote]
Except that after Freeza arc, the multiplier being x10 or x50 doesn't make any difference.

[Fionordequester]

Kaioken x4 Kamehameha. There was no Gyrikku Ho defending him when he was hit with that thing so it was 32,000 on 18,000. A 77% difference.

That's pretty easily explained though. Goku was already exhausted and beat just using X3, so by the time he used X4, I imagine that he wasn't able to actually MAINTAIN the Kamehameha at 32,000, hence why it went from being this ginormous beam, to this eensy weensy little thing by the time it actually hit Vegeta, and lost almost all of it's mass.

[Herms]

That's pretty much this thread in a nutshell.

"One might assume the Kaio-ken x4 Kamehameha is a big impressive attack, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to not be too big of a deal."

"One might assume that Super Saiyan is a big impressive power-up, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to be not much different than the power-up Goku was already using before."

"One might assume that when Freeza powers up to his 'full power' it's a big dramatic moment, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to be a big farce where Freeza is too dumb to realize he's not actually at full power."

I'm not sure how "coherent" this vision of the series is, but there's no doubt that it's painfully boring.

[Fionordequester]

Well shoot, I thought my explanation was pretty creative!

[Godo]

Regarding Freeza's 100% power, I believe that the damage he got at most would reduce the length of time that he could withhold his 100% form, not more than that. That, and also they say one million times when Freeza transforms into each of his forms that his damage against his previous opponent has healed.
Apparently, Goku could after all the beating and energy he lost actually use the KKx20 still, and we seldom see anyone get weaker until they have used up all of their energy or taken heavy damage.
So I believe that Freeza's 100 % was his 100 %, apart from him being able to tell when he has reached 50% and 70 % clearly during the fight! he could tell how strong he was himself even though he couldn't measure ki.
So I don't see why he could power up to 50% and later 70% and later not know that he was weaker than his actual 100%.

[freezamite]

Kaioken x4 Kamehameha. There was no Gyrikku Ho defending him when he was hit with that thing so it was 32,000 on 18,000. A 77% difference.

But that doesn't take into account the energy Goku lost after using the KKx3, at the time a level of KK that he hadn't mastered and that destroyed his body only after a few seconds of use.
In fact, that Goku hadn't enough with another KKx3 to win against Vegeta means that despite the one losing the punch exchange during the first KKx3 activation was Vegeta, the one that resulted more injured of it was precisely Goku.

The KKx4 only lasted for an instant, and on that instant Goku's strength diminished so fast that after the whole Kamehame-Garlik Ho scene was ended, Yajirobee was able to hurt Goku only touching him. In other words, if we don't take into account the power lost on those KK activations, does that mean that Yajirobee was at lets say 20.000 units of strength? Because not only he hurt Goku, he did it only touching him a bit and without any intention to do so!

Cell didn't power-up into a different state that forcibly increases ones muscle mass & power, while Freeza did.

Cell was a combination of the best of the best of every character that was a part of him.
Yes, he didn't power-up into a different state that forcibly increased his muscle & power, which means that this way of powering up wasn't an advantage but a drawback, because Freezer could only maintain his powered-up form for a few minutes while Cell could fight normally with it.

If Freezer had had any sort of healing capacity, then the same would've applied to Cell.

All this happened in less than a minute. There is no indication that Goku lost consciousness in the manga.

Well, then, let's say that he only took severe damage. Why would he pruposedly take this damage if he was so superior to 100% Freezer to the point where the difference between Vegeta and Dodoria was small in comparison?

Freeza's power fell below 50% after the Genki Dama. However, his power got restored once he increased his muscle mass, which is why he said he would power up to 100% Full Power.

Yet he powered up to 70% in an instant without any "restoring increased muscle mass" process? The increase in muscle mass, the fact that he had to force his body, it was a drawback and the reason why he couldn't fight at that level for a long period of time.

Freeza's power dropped below 100% after fighting with Goku, and then it fell even more once he got sliced in pieces, but his muscle mass just didn't decrease.

Why didn't he undo the muscle mass increase and then increase it again if it was like taking a senzu bean according to you? He had plenty of time to do it, when Goku was at the bottom of the lake and afterwards when Goku was leaving and sparing his life.

Also, do you have any statement about a half-dead fighter like Vegeta in Saiyan arc saying "I'm using 100% of my power"? Because if you are that much injured, you can't be at 100% Full Power, like Freeza was.

And why would they say something that's already known? The saiyans couldn't decrease their ki, so of course they were always using the 100% of their available ki!
Look, all your argumentation revolves around imposing a certain criteria and not taking into account what I'm telling to you. In other words, you're not even listening or taking into account what I'm saying, which is what you have been criticizing me for.

Freezer was an exception in that he was so, so, so much powerful compared to Goku & the rest of the z-fighters (never in the series a difference like that had been/would be seen on a fight between two opponents) that he didn't power up to his maximum strength until he was already injured.
When he does, he says he will use the 100% of his power, and from that phrase there can be made TWO interpretations:
1. That he would use the 100% of the power he potentially has.
2. That he would fight with the 100% of the power he had left, since despite the injuries he still was using only 50% of that.

Now, even when the difference wasn't that big, latter in the series we see another fight with similar circumstances. Cell fought against Goku using only a part of his total strength (presumably a big part of it), he happened to be an improved clone of Freezer, and yet he still needed a senzu bean in order to recover his lost strength.
He could do everything that any other character that was part of him could do, even a Genkidama that supposedly was tied to the ones with a good spirit (maybe he would've done an evil Genkidama instead of a pure one), yet he didn't had anything resembling that power of recovering you're describing now.
So your version of the facts actually contradicts the manga in that point AT LEAST.

But the contradictions doesn't end here, let's see the quote on Freezer's words on my last message:

Freezer: Even having taken this damage, there’s still no way I’ll be done-in by the likes of you!

This doesn't make any sense in your context. If Freezer knew that his power would be restored then the line should have been something like "it doesn't matter how injured I am, because I can restore all the energy I've lost!" and if he didn't knew about his healing capabilities because it can be perfectly argued that he never before had to use his 100%, then he couldn't possibly know that he would reach his true 100% before actually reaching it.

Isn't he credited as the supervisor?

I don't know. But if he was, then that means that he didn't supervise that section whether because he hadn't to or because he didn't do his supervision job that well.
But he latter says that he finds the 50x weird so it's obvious that this number, for whatever reason someone can imagine, wasn't approved by him.

Except that after Freeza arc, the multiplier being x10 or x50 doesn't make any difference.

In fact it does even if not by much, but I prefer to discuss that at an other thread.

That's pretty much this thread in a nutshell.
"One might assume the Kaio-ken x4 Kamehameha is a big impressive attack, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to not be too big of a deal."

Even if the KKx4 Kamehame wasn't a 32.000 blast, it still was by far the strongest Kamehame ever shown until that moment. And that KameHame wasn't even strong enough to hurt Vegeta that much, so in fact it wasn't too big of a deal at the end.

"One might assume that Super Saiyan is a big impressive power-up, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to be not much different than the power-up Goku was already using before."

The KK was not a proper power up, it was a technique that was made with a huge drawback on it. Everyone could do a KK if they had enough experience on ki manipulation.

One might assume that when Freeza powers up to his 'full power' it's a big dramatic moment, but for the series to be coherent, it needs to be a big farce where Freeza is too dumb to realize he's not actually at full power.

In fact he was perfectly conscious of this.

Freezer: Even having taken this damage, there’s still no way I’ll be done-in by the likes of you!

It's just that your interpretation of "100% power" or "full power" meaning his potential power instead of his actual power isn't the one that Toriyama thought.

I'm not sure how "coherent" this vision of the series is, but there's no doubt that it's painfully boring.

Well, it's your opinion. In my opinion it made the series something much more logical than "everything happens because it has to happen even when it doesn't make any sense", and also something much better than that.

Regarding Freeza's 100% power, I believe that the damage he got at most would reduce the length of time that he could withhold his 100% form, not more than that.

This would be a first and last on the series, so I imagine you have a solid reason to back this claim.

That, and also they say one million times when Freeza transforms into each of his forms that his damage against his previous opponent has healed.

Yes, and considering how all the visible damage persisted, it means that his 100% state wasn't a new transformation, but his final/true form brought at the limit.

Apparently, Goku could after all the beating and energy he lost actually use the KKx20 still, and we seldom see anyone get weaker until they have used up all of their energy or taken heavy damage.

Being able to use KKx20 doesn't have anything to do with the power he actually had at that point. It had to do with how dominated the KK technique was at a point.

Ant regarding what you say about anyone never shown loosing any power until he has taken heavy damage:
1. That's not true. I mean, not many pages ago you were saying that Raditz wasn't badly hurt by Gohan to justify the 1500 number, and that Goku could hold him because of how good that hold technique of him was and not because of how much power Raditz had lost even when he lost some of it. Now you're saying that someone can only lose power if he takes heavy damage. You've contradicted yourself, which means that you're not defending what you believe, but only putting excuses to answer to what I'm saying.
Besides that, we have tons of other examples of fighters loosing power level bit by bit instead of only after using a heavy attack or taking heavy damage, it's just that since the power lost is proportional to those factors, it's also more apparent when someone is under those circumstances you've said.

2. Freezer almost died with the Genkidama, so I think that this is what "heavy damage" means, in fact.

apart from him being able to tell when he has reached 50% and 70 % clearly during the fight! he could tell how strong he was himself even though he couldn't measure ki.

He couldn't tell that. What he could tell is how many power he was using, and that's something that even I can do to some extent. I mean, I can perfectly know if I'm running at top speed or only at half my speed, but unless I grab a chronometer and I run a certain measured distance, I'll never be able to know how fast I'm under those circumstances.

Besides that, Freezer was approximating his power increases, so even more reasons to think that this wasn't an ability he had to sense his own energy but more him speaking about his impressions like a normal human being would speak talking about how much strength is using at a moment.

So I don't see why he could power up to 50% and later 70% and later not know that he was weaker than his actual 100%.

No, he powered up to 50% the strength he had, then at 70% the strength he had, and finally to 100% the strength he had. And like someone that feels weakened, he also knew that he wasn't at his best condition, like the quote on his words perfectly demonstrates.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Freezer had had any sort of healing capacity, then the same would've applied to Cell.

But Freeza didn't heal himself, he re-boosted his body. Again, ki doesn't like life points. What Freeza did by increasing his muscles was re-boosting his power beyond its limits. It's like Freeza took and adrenaline shot. Same thing happened to Goku when he transformed into a Super Saiyan for the first time. He wouldn't even walk before that, and he was kicking ass after transforming.

Well, then, let's say that he only took severe damage. Why would he pruposedly take this damage if he was so superior to 100% Freezer to the point where the difference between Vegeta and Dodoria was small in comparison?

Because Freeza took him by surprise.

Yet he powered up to 70% in an instant without any "restoring increased muscle mass" process? The increase in muscle mass, the fact that he had to force his body, it was a drawback and the reason why he couldn't fight at that level for a long period of time.

He also powered-up from ~2.5% to 50% in an instant.

Why didn't he undo the muscle mass increase and then increase it again if it was like taking a senzu bean according to you?

I never said that increasing his muscle mass healed him, it's you who is under that impression.

And why would they say something that's already known? The saiyans couldn't decrease their ki, so of course they were always using the 100% of their available ki!

The fact that Nappa powered-up twice and Vegeta once shows that they could decrease their ki to a degree, just not to the same degree the Z-Senshi could.

Look, all your argumentation revolves around imposing a certain criteria and not taking into account what I'm telling to you. In other words, you're not even listening or taking into account what I'm saying, which is what you have been criticizing me for.

I'm not taking into account what you are saying because I don't agree with what you are saying. What you are saying is that Battle Powers work like life-points work in the video games, which isn't the case. They don't lose power, they just can't use all of their power because their bodies are messed up & their stamina drops a lot.

Freezer was an exception in that he was so, so, so much powerful compared to Goku & the rest of the z-fighters (never in the series a difference like that had been/would be seen on a fight between two opponents) that he didn't power up to his maximum strength until he was already injured.
When he does, he says he will use the 100% of his power, and from that phrase there can be made TWO interpretations:
1. That he would use the 100% of the power he potentially has.
2. That he would fight with the 100% of the power he had left, since despite the injuries he still was using only 50% of that.

And I disagree.

Now, even when the difference wasn't that big, latter in the series we see another fight with similar circumstances. Cell fought against Goku using only a part of his total strength (presumably a big part of it), he happened to be an improved clone of Freezer, and yet he still needed a senzu bean in order to recover his lost strength.
He could do everything that any other character that was part of him could do, even a Genkidama that supposedly was tied to the ones with a good spirit (maybe he would've done an evil Genkidama instead of a pure one), yet he didn't had anything resembling that power of recovering you're describing now.
So your version of the facts actually contradicts the manga in that point AT LEAST.

How? Goku gave Cell the senzu, he didn't ask for it. Cell still had more power hiding, and he even had his "Super Saiyan Grade 3" & Power-Weighed states (both of them are similar to Freeza's Full Power state). Goku didn't know if Cell was fighting at full power, and since Cell had lost stamina from their fight, he gave him the senzu to recover it, so that he can have a fair fight with Gohan.

But the contradictions doesn't end here, let's see the quote on Freezer's words on my last message:

Freezer: Even having taken this damage, there’s still no way I’ll be done-in by the likes of you!

This doesn't make any sense in your context. If Freezer knew that his power would be restored then the line should have been something like "it doesn't matter how injured I am, because I can restore all the energy I've lost!" and if he didn't knew about his healing capabilities because it can be perfectly argued that he never before had to use his 100%, then he couldn't possibly know that he would reach his true 100% before actually reaching it.

I just realized that your fact that Freeza lost power is that statement and... it doesn't say anything about Freeza losing power. All it says is that Freeza is injured, but still stronger than everyone.

I don't know. But if he was, then that means that he didn't supervise that section whether because he hadn't to or because he didn't do his supervision job that well.
But he latter says that he finds the 50x weird so it's obvious that this number, for whatever reason someone can imagine, wasn't approved by him.

Or, he accepted the x50. He never said that x50 is unsuitable, he just says that it sounds too big.

[Rocketman]

To be honest, I wanna know how you figure Oozaru Vegeta to be less than 50,000. That's bugging me.