MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/16/26!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Shiyonasan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:15 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:DBD: The 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai Arc Part 1!

And so Dragon Ball Dissection December begins!

As always, let me know what you think. And there are only three parts for this arc, and the scripts have all been written, so let me know if there's something you think I absolutely CAN'T forget to mention.

And now that I've spent all day on this, it's time to get my pole dancing class. ^_^
Great job as usual, Gaffer Tape.

I never really noticed how different Goku is physically in this arc before watching this video. I always thought he just got taller, but I never noticed he got skinnier too. Perhaps that comes from only watching the anime and not having read this arc in the manga.

Also, I don't mean to be nitpicky, but Goku and Kuririn are actually 16 and 17 in this arc as evidenced by Herms' Age Guide. I'm certainly not an expert on Dragon Ball knowledge, but I'm fairly certain the Age Guide is correct in this instance.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Herms » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:03 am

@Shiyonasan: It's kinda one of those "X, going on Y" type things. At the 21st TB, Kuririn is said to be 13, while Goku reveals he's actually 12 and not 14 as he had previously told Bulma (he thought 14 came after 11). This means Goku was 12 both at the start of the series when he meets Bulma, and also 8+ months later at the tournament, so by extension at the tournament he must be getting fairly close to his 13th birthday...putting aside the difficulty that logically nobody on Earth can know Goku's true birthday. Anyway, 3 years later he's going to be 15, going on 16, with Kuririn about a year older.

Guidebook-wise Goku's official birth year is Age 737 and Kuririn's is 736. The 22nd TB is on May 7th, Age 753, so that's the year they turn 16/17. But since there's no specific birth day for either of them, we can't really know if they've already passed their birthdays at the tournament.

With my Age Guide, I just calculated everything straight from birth year and the year each event takes place. So it lists Goku at the 21st TB (Age 750) as simply 13, when as noted above it's probably better to say he's "12, going on 13". I've been meaning to fix a few instances like that, but never quite seem to get around to it.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Saiga » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:15 am

So only just today checked this series out. I've been interested in checking this out for a while, but I haven't gotten around to it. I watched your introduction video and the three videos covering the first arc, and caught up with this thread. Not much for me to say at this point, but I'm enjoying them so far and will keep watching.

I was planning on doing my own read through/review of the series myself, but now I think it might be redundant with you already having something like that (especially since a few things I wanted to raise in mine, you've already covered). Although instead of videos it would just be a text liveblog over at TV Tropes, but the idea of ranking each arc was the same sort of thing. Anyway, if I do go on with that, would you mind if I mentioned your videos in my liveblog?

Also, on the Bulma thing (I actually nearly typed that as Blooma - curse you, four videos in and you've almost already converted me!) I feel the explanation you gave makes sense and Blooma probably is the most logical choice for writing her name, but... I don't know if I can ever switch from Bulma completely. It's just too ingrained, and is one of those ones that is different enough for me to cop flak when using it in other places (like the aforementioned TV Tropes, where using even "Kuririn" has been met with negativity) or just confuse people. But... it makes so much sense!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by coola » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:25 am

Nice to see DBD back, yes, it is kinda strange to remove half of cast at the beginning of arc, on the other hand, they served their purpose, i didn`t notice before, how Crane School uniform is in dark color, so charming way of showing that someone is evil :)
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Shiyonasan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:12 am

@Herms: Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't quite sure the Age Guide was completely correct when I posted that, but I felt it was worth pointing out anyway. I suppose if the Tenkaichi Budokai is held the same time of year, Goku probably is 15 in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. I'll stick with the theory that he's 16, but I'm not against the idea that he could be 15 at this point. It's all speculation anyway.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:21 am

I have noticed Chaozu was just a counterpart of Krillin, and like you mentioned with Puar and Launch earlier, there isn't anything more about him except being a satellite like the others. I like Chaozu, but considering how was used, It would have been better if Toryama just had Tenshinhan as the only Crane student.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:02 pm

I just marathoned the whole series and I really love it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by TheGmGoken » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:06 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:I just marathoned the whole series and I really love it.
Manga marathoned or Anime marathoned?

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Insertclevername » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:09 pm

He's talking about Dragon Ball Dissection.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Saiga » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:53 pm

FoolsGil wrote:I have noticed Chaozu was just a counterpart of Krillin, and like you mentioned with Puar and Launch earlier, there isn't anything more about him except being a satellite like the others. I like Chaozu, but considering how was used, It would have been better if Toryama just had Tenshinhan as the only Crane student.
I can't agree with that. Then Kuririn is without an opponent and that was a good fight. Maybe instead, Chaozu wouldn't be redeemed and just simply go his separate way from Tenshinhan with Tsuru-Sen'nin.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:48 pm

Insertclevername wrote:He's talking about Dragon Ball Dissection.
Yep..I meant DBD. I did marathon the Dragon Ball Anime a while back, but there is no way I can marathon DBZ...I could marathon Kai, but definitely not Z.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:52 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:but definitely not Z.
Fast-Forward button!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:56 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:but definitely not Z.
Fast-Forward button!
That doesn't really make it better. It's also something I shouldn't have to do. I shouldn't have to fast forward constantly.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Kid Buu » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:17 am

I'm rewatching the Buu arc, and you mention how in the late RRA that Yamcha seems like a leader. In the anime, he also seems like the leader of the Buu arc Dragon Ball hunt.

Funny how the last hunt of the DB's was with Bulma and Yamcha again!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:17 pm

Gah, I'm so behind on this. I don't think I ever watched beyond the first Red Ribbon Arc vid yet...time to go play catch-up!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Zephyr » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:23 pm

Always glad to see another one of these. Great work as usual.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:32 pm

Yay, so many awesome comments. Thank you, guys, for enjoying what I do. I wish my Batman series and Final Fantasy Memory series were getting as many hits as this, but it's always refreshing to put out a new DBD and see numbers, comments, and likes. It gives me the warm fuzzies. So let me see if I can address everything.

@JulieYBM: I suppose you could say that Lunch's, for lack of a better term, transformation, was already complete by the end of the RRA (or even the beginning, really), and I think someone might have commented to that effect earlier, but I always wanted to save it for this moment because it seemed to fit really well with this theme I wanted to follow of the cast coming together.

@Shinyonasan: Yeah, I expected someone to come in and say that because of Herms's Age Guide. But I think a lot of it ties back to the topic I opened the RRA arc on: the whole 8 months/year thing that doesn't exactly reconcile one way or the other. And if you do accept the alternate interpretation that a year has somehow passed, making Goku 13 by the TB, then he would be 16 here. But I decided to make it easy on myself and not get into that can of worms again.

@Herms: I love that you mention in passing that no one should logically know Goku's true birthday. I remember thinking about that when I had to do my big spiel on ages at the beginning of RRA, but I'd already put out the video. But I kept wondering if someone was going to bring that up as a possible rationalization for how the timeline doesn't quite gel. I know that's not exactly what you were getting at here, but it still makes me smile. ^_^

@Saiga: Welcome! So glad you're enjoying yourself, and thank you for your kind words. I certainly don't hold a monopoly on discussing Dragon Ball, as you could easily reason that my series is a visual, solo, restructured Manga Review of Awesomeness. So please don't think your own efforts would be redundant, as I'm sure you have your own unique take on the series. By all means feel free to reference me in your blog, and let me know how your series goes.

Now I had a bit of a... well, not really a question, but maybe some thinking out loud, if you will. As you know, I'm also covering the movies, and it's been my goal to release them at the same point in the manga's run that they were originally released. To that end, I'd been using Kanzenshuu to match up release dates and actually end the preceding DBD right at the chapter the movie would have been released, and I have this arc structured the same way. To my horror, though, I somehow missed this entire thread's existence until just the other day, wherein Julian explains that there's a difference of a couple of weeks between Jump's official publication date and the date of its actual release. And I'm perfectly fine with continuing to use those dates in my title sequence for the beginnings and ends of arcs, but it does throw a bit of a monkey wrench into my plans to perfectly position the movies. In fact, I've already failed. So now I'm not sure what to do. Keep doing what I've been doing? Try to figure out the actual chapters the movies would have been released between and try to adjust myself accordingly from now on? Aaaaaaargh! Quandary!
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MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 2/16/26!)
Current Episode: The Airtight Case for Slice of Life! - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 1

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Saiga » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:45 pm

That reminds me, I haven't listened to the Manga Review of Awesomeness either! My to-do list is fast becoming novel-length.

I'm not going to double post for this, but hope you don't miss it. I just finished the your coverage of the 21st Budokai arc, and I've already gotten used to Blooma. Well... that or it's just because you didn't need to use her name very often given her role in the arc. :lol:

I do like how you pointed out that this Budokai is much more different from the other three in that the training actually makes up part of the arc, although I have to say I actually like that Toriyama found lots of creative ways to skip training later on. I don't think this was a product of laziness or anything but simply because most of the time adequate training just wouldn't have fit anywhere.

Also, do you have the sources for both Toriyama saying he forgot about Lunch and that he didn't plan to have Kuririn be a major character? I always thought the first was just a fan misinterpretation of him saying he didn't think fans would remember her in the Boo arc, and I don't see how he could have forgotten her when he accounted for her in the Saiyan/Freeza arcs and planned for her to return in the Boo arc.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:07 am

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 12/4/13

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:05 pm

Saiga wrote:Also, do you have the sources for both Toriyama saying he forgot about Lunch and that he didn't plan to have Kuririn be a major character? I always thought the first was just a fan misinterpretation of him saying he didn't think fans would remember her in the Boo arc, and I don't see how he could have forgotten her when he accounted for her in the Saiyan/Freeza arcs and planned for her to return in the Boo arc.
Offhand I can't recall Lunch, but I do remember exactly where the statement about Kuririn came from. It's from Volume 8 of the tankobon in Toriyama's Ask Me Anything Corner:
Yuko Kimoto (Hyoho Prefecture):
Hello Toriyama-sensei! I used to think that Kuririn was just some weird character, but now I think he is really cool! I used to just kind of quickly read through the parts with Kuririn in them, but on a second read, he’s pretty cute! He’s short and bald and has those cute eyebrows!

Akira Toriyama
I also used to write Kuririn so that he was just some weird minor character who appeared in the story, but now he’s matured to become an indispensable member of the cast. I’m really surprised at how many fans he has now! It’s the same with Kame-Sen’nin, the Turtle Hermit; when I originally created him, I just intended him to be some crazy old perfect. (So now you know how whimsical I was when I created Dragon Ball.)
In Viz's collection, this is in volume 12.

As for whether or not forgetting about Lunch makes sense, I think it does. He accounted for her briefly. She appears in a title page towards the end of the Saiyan fight and that cameo Christmas panel, but, in general, the Freeza arc, having spent so much time away from earth, really did change a lot of things about earth. I mean, it caused him to forget about animal-based earthlings, despite the fact that two of them were still in his cast, so it doesn't seem too far-fetched that he would forget about Lunch even though he'd given her cameos fairly recently. But I do need to try and remember where that info comes from...
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Current Episode: The Airtight Case for Slice of Life! - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 1

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