BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Silkman3003 wrote:Which they are to some extent, in both series; moreso in Spike games because a lot of of them post-Tenkaichi 1 have charge times, while Budokai specials seem out of place outside of combo-enders when played at that level, and Shin Budokai/Infinite World Specials cannot even do that.
You made this up, hinting to me that you don't even know what you are talking about. Dragon fist, Solar Flare, Blazing Shoot, Heat Phalenx,Soaring Dragon Strike, Evasive Kick, Maou Shoot,Gigantic Claw, Head Banger, Drain Field(Super 17) ,Savage Counter, Drain Life Cell, Final Impact are specials that can be used outside of combos and aren't needed as combo enders. Some of them even being able to be canceled and used as starterss , while others eat through guard. Even specials like Hyper tornado and Drain Field from S17 negate the use of other specials.
Here's the problem with that response, and it's as much the fault of my phrasing as your interpretation; I am not arguing that the technical elements of Dimps DBZ games don't exist. I never was. I really can't be when I remember, though vaguely, the growing pains of the Dimps competitive scene really caught it's stride with Budokai 3 and had to deal with the same reactionary arguments as the Super Smash Brothers or Generation 3 Pokemon going on at around the same time.
I'm arguing that the technical aspects of Dimps games, and the distinction of characters, are not readily apparent the way they are in Arc System Works games, Super Smash Brothers, or other games with more blatantly defined characters. This is why people claim Budokai is full of clones, why people spammed so much in Burst Limit because continuous ki attacks made more sense than combo integration (Not
just because of the infinite ki, as I'll get to). Are they bad players? Sure. But that's just it; most DBZ players ARE bad players. Whenever a competitive subculture rises around a intended non-competitive game, that's the nature of things. And competitive Dimps DBZ is most certainly a player-made scene.
Onward to me, since my background must be established to have any merit, nothing special at these games, but I also have never seen Shin/Infinite World played between two high level players before, which leaves with the incomplete picture of my own experience of most special attacks stopping combos cold in the later games (Missing something, sure, but certainly not "making it up"- what am I doing wrong there?), and good Budokai 3 players relying 97% on cancels for damage with a stray beam for distancing that doesn't really matter because its going to boil cancels -> teleport -> cancels anyway. Perhaps I watch the wrong people.
Distinction between characters doesn't have to be more readily apparent like the Guilty Gear games, in order to figure out that they do not play the same . The entire meat of the Budokai games rely on cancels. The cancel system IS Budokai in essence as without it, it's shallow. If people are claiming that characters in the budokai games play the same, it is an argument thats stems from
pure ignorance. End of story. Because anyone who plays the games and knows the system would know full well that they do not play the same. Their chains, cancel set ups, DM's,etc are enough to make them more unique. They didn't take the god damn time in learning the game instead of spamming TC's and combos that don't pass 5 hits.
Characters in Budokai not having as much unique movelists as other fighting games=/= Playing the same. Games like Guilty Gear do have larger movelists and specials, and while this may mean that it has more depth than budokai, it does not mean that characters in budokai play the same. That said, the clones argument is mostly towards Tenkaichi than it is for the Budokai games.
Part of the reasons why there aren't a lot of SBAR and IW videos on High level play..is because they weren't that popular. SBAR wasn't on more popular platforms like the PS2, and you pretty much needed another psp in order to fight against someone. And with a good majority of people not even knowing how to cancel, and lack of tourneys.
Not to mention with IW that came out after BL was released, and it not being as popular as B3,and with the above mentions... Well I will agree with this
Whenever a competitive subculture rises around a intended non-competitive game, that's the nature of things. And competitive Dimps DBZ is most certainly a player-made scene.
However,I have a feeling that if BL was done right, it would have expanded the community far more. In theory, the ki system for BL was basically wasting another persons ki in order to do a large cancel combo. Different types of chains were added in, and you even had the ability to cancel your DM(like Big bang attack) and continue your combo. With the execution, being bad as ki recharge rate was too fast. If the online were fully great, the ki system actually good, along with other stuff it would have forced people to go into cancel combos. As simply spamming DM's would have truly been ineffective, and forced people to combo.
. It was a HORRIBLE cut. I want something different to be honest. A little new system but nothing like BOZ. Perhaps something like Tenkaich(Sparking) could work with some different features and same goes with Budokai. Though I'll love for some joke DB games.
