Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
I disagree. I believe that Hildegarn was stronger than U. Gohan & SS3 Goku, and Gohan & Gotenks were stronger than Goku, and that Goku managed to beat Hildegarn because Hildegarn's body wasn't durable (which is why he was relying to his phantom-ability), so it couldn't withstand SS3 Goku's Ryu-ken, his most powerful attack. Gohan & Gotenks were also taken by surprise when Hildegarn KOed them, while Goku was fully prepared to take the attacks.
Zombie wrote:Yamcha (Android Saga) vs Freeza (2nd Suppression)
What do you mean by "2nd Suppression"?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I disagree. I believe that Hildegarn was stronger than U. Gohan & SS3 Goku, and Gohan & Gotenks were stronger than Goku, and that Goku managed to beat Hildegarn because Hildegarn's body wasn't durable (which is why he was relying to his phantom-ability), so it couldn't withstand SS3 Goku's Ryu-ken, his most powerful attack. Gohan & Gotenks were also taken by surprise when Hildegarn KOed them, while Goku was fully prepared to take the attacks.
Zombie wrote:Yamcha (Android Saga) vs Freeza (2nd Suppression)
What do you mean by "2nd Suppression"?
Hirudegarn is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku but Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks
Kakashi wrote:Hirudegarn is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku but Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks
That's your opinion, not a fact.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Vegeta has it won. He was already stronger than his own father.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
I'm not sure who is stronger... I'll give it to Bardock.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Vegeta has it won. He was already stronger than his own father.
Actually, King Vegeta is stronger than Vegeta at this point, since he is stated to be the strongest Saiyan during his time. Vegeta said that he surpassed his father when he was a kid, but during the special he was 5 years old, so he has a 7 years to surpass his father.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Let's try this one, Vegeta (as he was against First Form Freeza; let's assume he's at 250,000 like the Daizenshuu says) vs Chilled. Honestly, there's not much to go on for Chilled, other than that he's at least above 10 thousand, but I'm curious as to see where everyone places him.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Let's try this one, Vegeta (as he was against First Form Freeza; let's assume he's at 250,000 like the Daizenshuu says) vs Chilled. Honestly, there's not much to go on for Chilled, other than that he's at least above 10 thousand, but I'm curious as to see where everyone places him.
I think V jump said Vegeta was that strong and not the Daiz. Anyways I think Vegeta wins as I have him closer to first form Freeza.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Let's try this one, Vegeta (as he was against First Form Freeza; let's assume he's at 250,000 like the Daizenshuu says) vs Chilled. Honestly, there's not much to go on for Chilled, other than that he's at least above 10 thousand, but I'm curious as to see where everyone places him.
I think V jump said Vegeta was that strong and not the Daiz. Anyways I think Vegeta wins as I have him closer to first form Freeza.
Oh, my bad then.
Still, for this discussion, let's assume that Vegeta is at 250 thousand. Do you think that Chilled stands a chance?
TheGmGoken wrote:Better one. Does anyone remember the power levels from V-Jump for Cooler's amour squad!
Vegeta(250k) vs Each of them(one on one battles)
Vegeta destroys the armoured squad. None of them top 185,000 in the V Jump numbers.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheGmGoken wrote:
Vegeta vs Cooler Amour squad(All of them at same time) then......
I'm pretty sure they all still get stomped.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Let's try this one, Vegeta (as he was against First Form Freeza; let's assume he's at 250,000 like the Daizenshuu says) vs Chilled. Honestly, there's not much to go on for Chilled, other than that he's at least above 10 thousand, but I'm curious as to see where everyone places him.
I think V jump said Vegeta was that strong and not the Daiz. Anyways I think Vegeta wins as I have him closer to first form Freeza.
Oh, my bad then.
Still, for this discussion, let's assume that Vegeta is at 250 thousand. Do you think that Chilled stands a chance?
When Bardock first met Chilled, he went into a rage and attacked him head on. Despite seeing it coming, Chilled not only wasn't able to tank it, he actually bled from the punch. Though oddly enough he bled purple.
With that in mind, I think even Saiyan Saga Vegeta could take Chilled. I think this is an age where someone like BOZ Goku would still be very impressive. Aside from Chilled himself, no one could even use ki blasts; even Chilled's liuetenants used guns.
I've been feeling generous in regards to the humans. Yamcha can stomp second form Freeza and put up a tough fight against third form Freeza.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
