Mr. Popo and Jynx a reference to racism?

[DBGod]

Speaking of U.S. reactions, I do find it interesting that I've heard from a number of fans of DBZ/Kai who are black who said that they were actually more offended by the CW turning him blue than they were of his unaltered appearance.

I'm not surprised by that. Changing his appearance only demonstrates the assumption that it was originally negative in some sort of way and just places labels on the subject matter.

[samuraix123]

I'm glad when I was kid (And today as well)When I look at Mr Popo I never see a Black man or any other type of racist stuff going on. I just see Mr Popo But...When I seen this. I actually felt offended! And I'm not even Black! LOL

I mean, Isn't taking the black guy out of the show racist? it's like they did the complete opposite of what they set out to do in my opinion.
Having had Indians in my family, I hate seeing stereotypical Native Americans. BUT! I love the way they were handled in the Dragonball series!


It actually makes me happy to see them not forgotten like that.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think AT was trying to be racist and most likely had no idea what black face is. In Japan, their culture is different from ours. Same goes with Nazi imagery in Japan since shows like Pokemon and Kamen Rider have use Nazi imagery before. While in America, they would never allow it seeing that Hitler was fully cut out in the TV edit of Fusion Reborn and his name re-change in the uncut Funi dub.

[samuraix123]

What did they change his name too in the Funi uncut dub? First time I've heard about it. Doesn't matter...They could change it to anything they want, everyone is still going to know who it is.

[Hellspawn28]

I remember his name was called "The Dictator" or something like that.

[samuraix123]

LOL That's funny stuff. You gotta try to find me some info on that. Not calling you a liar but if that's true it's funny.

[DBGod]

I remember his name was called "The Dictator" or something like that.

Yeah I remember that.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I remember his name was called "The Dictator" or something like that.

Yeah I remember that.

The weird thing about that was that, in the dub, even though they changed his name, that character was still written and acted with a noticeable amount of fourth-wall-breaking, "we know you know who this is but we just can't say it"-style humor. The character had a heavy German accent, and at one point when Goten and Trunks go Super Saiyan, he says, "Blonde hair, green eyes, super strength? I should be recruiting them!"

Actually, here's his scenes in the English dub.

[KaiserNeko]

I remember his name was called "The Dictator" or something like that.

Yeah I remember that.

The weird thing about that was that, in the dub, even though they changed his name, that character was still written and acted with a noticeable amount of fourth-wall-breaking, "we know you know who this is but we just can't say it"-style humor. The character had a heavy German accent, and at one point when Goten and Trunks go Super Saiyan, he says, "Blonde hair, green eyes, super strength? I should be recruiting them!"

Actually, here's his scenes in the English dub.

Iiiif I'm correct, in the Japanese version he should be Dokusaisha, or... Dictator.

[dario03]

I don't think AT was trying to be racist and most likely had no idea what black face is. In Japan, their culture is different from ours. Same goes with Nazi imagery in Japan since shows like Pokemon and Kamen Rider have use Nazi imagery before. While in America, they would never allow it seeing that Hitler was fully cut out in the TV edit of Fusion Reborn and his name re-change in the uncut Funi dub.

Which is kind of odd since I'm pretty sure they have had Nazi stuff in modern American Cartoons. Don't recall if they actually mention Hitler but I'm pretty sure they've had the good guys fight Nazi's in both Marvel and DC cartoons.

[GarrettCRW]

The prevalence of blackface in Japanese culture has a lot to do with a lack of context in what the country was exposed to following World War II. Since blackface was still acceptable at the time, with Al Jolson still quite famous and many cartoons falling back on references to his act (Bugs Bunny sold War Bonds doing this, to name one example), the Japanese never "got" the racial problems with this portrayal, and wasn't called to the carpet on it until the internet came of age, when Jynx, Popo, and Takara's original mascot getting wider exposure in America. (Japan isn't the only country to suffer from this cultural disconnect: the BBC aired a minstrel show on BBC One in the UK until 1978, and one of Doctor Who's many missing episodes from 1966 has the alternate, n-word-laced version of "Eeny Meeny Miney Moe" recited by a character.)

[GarrettCRW]

Which is kind of odd since I'm pretty sure they have had Nazi stuff in modern American Cartoons. Don't recall if they actually mention Hitler but I'm pretty sure they've had the good guys fight Nazi's in both Marvel and DC cartoons.

American cartoons for kids have been skirting the Hitler issue for a long time. The closest cartoons have come to actually seeing Hitler and the Nazis (that I can recall) have been:

1) A third season Dungeons & Dragons, "The Time Lost", which features Venger (the show's main villain) plucking a German pilot from World War II to fly a plane from the Earth's implied near future in order to tilt the war towards Germany so that the show's heroes will never ride the eponymous Dungeons & Dragons amusement park ride and enter the Realm. Germany is mentioned, and Hitler is very obliquely mentioned, but at some point between the storyboard phase and the final episode, all Swastikas were replaced with Iron Crosses.

2) The Justice League three-parter "The Savage Time" has Vandal Savage altering history and usurping Hitler, but Swastikas are replaced with lightning bolts, and it's mostly inference. The much later episode "Patriot Act" involves the Captain Nazi serum (and even has the word "Nazi" printed on a file), but the serum is merely a MacGuffin.

3) The made-for-TV animated movie version of Flash Gordon opens on Earth during the war and frankly discusses the Nazis, but the TV series version completely skips the Earth scenes and starts with Flash, Dale, and Zarkoff crash landing on Mongo.

[goku the krump dancer]

I'm "African American" and I take no offense to Popo's design AT ALL. In fact i'm actually more irritated by the people who do take offense to it. Adjutant Black was created waay before Popo was introduced and aside from the big lips (which I think is ugly period) he looks fine, Popo's design seems rather innocent to me.

[TheGmGoken]

I'm "African American" and I take no offense to Popo's design AT ALL. In fact i'm actually more irritated by the people who do take offense to it. Adjutant Black was created waay before Popo was introduced and aside from the big lips (which I think is ugly period) he looks fine, Popo's design seems rather innocent to me.

Being half black(People think I'm full since I'm brown skinned) I agree with this. It seems like anything that is "Black" fully(Like Popo) is racist. I highly disagree since it could be just a design thing. Never knew how people thought certain thinks was racist. Wish people wasn't so damn sensitive .

[Attitudefan]

You know, as a child, I never ever thought about how racist a character looked and never thought Popo could be a racial stereotype. To me, he was just Mr. Popo. It wasn't until I came on this forum that I EVEN realized how he looked like the racist "blackface"! For all that time, he just was a magical character! Ignorance is bliss perhaps.

The deal with the lips on some characters is bad, I do agree to an extent. However, there were non-black characters shown with the same lips in Dragonball... so, I think it is less a racial feature for some characters and more of a feature to a specific character (one who happens to be black in this case). While that may not have been what was intended, it is kind of like my own personal canon in how humans could potentially look like. Some with large noses and others with large lips.

A personal anecdote of mine on terms of racism viewed from Oriental friends of mine is this: I had inquired about racism over in Asia and how it pertains to someone like me (White, European), and I was first told about how in China (while not Japan, I am sure it is not too different) the term they use for people like me---White, European ancestry---are "White Demons" many of whom have large (potentially hooked downwards) noses and fire like hair (in terms of colour, texture, and physical appearance). According to some of my mates, these observations were originally made when Europeans first came to Asia and started to colonize it. I am sure the same kind of story goes for how stereotypes towards black people arose in Asia, including Japan.

My point is, is how a culture like Japan is no stranger to racial stereotypes and are likely to be brought up often! No one race is going to be subjected to racism except all are going to be subjected to it at some point.

Hell, something like Attack on Titan might be a social criticism on German (possibly European??) lifestyle. I mean, their character designs are more realistic than Dragonball, yet many of the characters have features that mainly Caucasians have such as the large and hooked noses. Even that damn gunman in Dragonball who killed Buu's dog had blond hair and a HUGE FUCKING NOSE!

I didn't mean to derail this topic, but I am trying to show that these stereotypes do exist, for everyone of every kind of background. I just wanted to add another perspective to racial stereotyping not just in Dragonball, but in anime overall.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Jynx is a reference to the Ganguro fashion, though just to be safe the pokemon was later colored purple.

[Adamant]

In Japan, their culture is different from ours. Same goes with Nazi imagery in Japan since shows like Pokemon and Kamen Rider have use Nazi imagery before.

What?
Pokemon has never used "nazi imagery", and Kamen Rider... uses Nazi imagery because Shocker is a neo-Nazi organization. There's no difference between the usage of Nazism in Kamen Rider and in something like the Indiana Jones movies.

[SaiyaJedi]

I'm "African American" and I take no offense to Popo's design AT ALL. In fact i'm actually more irritated by the people who do take offense to it. Adjutant Black was created waay before Popo was introduced and aside from the big lips (which I think is ugly period) he looks fine, Popo's design seems rather innocent to me.

Adjutant Black is fine (perhaps the most competent member of the Red Ribbon), but Staff Officer Black, as he's called in the anime, is a bit of a problem. Sure, "Staff Officer" is a more important position, but in Japanese, that's Sanbō. As in, "Black Sambo". (You can blame Toei Animation for that one, though, and not Toriyama.)
EDIT: I appear to have been beaten to this on the first page. The point stands, though.

Incidentally, Mr. Popo looks pretty similar to a genie that appeared in a Dr. Slump story, but recolored to have black skin and red lips (and a turban for good measure).

[Hellspawn28]

In Japan, their culture is different from ours. Same goes with Nazi imagery in Japan since shows like Pokemon and Kamen Rider have use Nazi imagery before.

What?
Pokemon has never used "nazi imagery"

There's a section for it on the Bulbapedia

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ ... zi_imagery

I also remember Meowth also dress up as Hitler in one episode of Pokemon that never got dubbed in the US.

[TripleRach]

You know, as a child, I never ever thought about how racist a character looked and never thought Popo could be a racial stereotype. To me, he was just Mr. Popo. It wasn't until I came on this forum that I EVEN realized how he looked like the racist "blackface"! For all that time, he just was a magical character! Ignorance is bliss perhaps.

I went through something similar. I was a teenager when I got into Dragon Ball, and I was aware of blackface make-up in minstrel shows and whatnot, but I never made the connection to that with Mr. Popo (or Jynx). Blackface make-up controversies still come up in modern times (there was a recent incident with a white actress doing it for Halloween 2013), but the cartoony Little Black Sambo-type imagery is pretty dated at this point. Americans born after 1980 (if not earlier) are not going to be aware of those old images unless someone specifically teaches them about it or they stumble upon it in something old. So the odds of children in the US associating Popo with black people are very low. That's not to say I think the imagery is harmless or that it's a good idea to keep designing characters that way, especially since it's obviously still an issue in other countries. But it's clearly falling out of cultural awareness, which means less influence on people.

Mr. Popo's design and his broken speech pattern definitely seems questionable, but we don't know for sure what was going through Toriyama's mind when designing him.