Mr. Popo and Jynx a reference to racism?

[Gaffer Tape]

Incidentally, Mr. Popo looks pretty similar to a genie that appeared in a Dr. Slump story, but recolored to have black skin and red lips (and a turban for good measure).

You don't happen to have a picture of that character by any chance, do you? Or happen to know his name so I can look him up?

[Adamant]

In Japan, their culture is different from ours. Same goes with Nazi imagery in Japan since shows like Pokemon and Kamen Rider have use Nazi imagery before.

What?
Pokemon has never used "nazi imagery"

There's a section for it on the Bulbapedia

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ ... zi_imagery

Bulbapedia is pretty garbage in general, and the manji is not "nazi imagery".

I also remember Meowth also dress up as Hitler in one episode of Pokemon that never got dubbed in the US.

You remember wrong.

[dbboxkaifan]

If Kiterestu aired in US I guess people would go apeshit because it showed the Nazi symbol, oh wait, it actually isn't, there's a difference.

What the bird has on his forehead is the Buddhist symbol (to the left) and not the Swastika symbol (to the right) but I assume nevertheless it would create chaos due to uninformed people moaning about it.

Don't people in US have anything better to do than to complain about what games and anime series feature?

By the way, this anime series score was composed by our beloved Shunsuke Kikuchi.

[Avenged]

If Kiterestu aired in US I guess people would go apeshit because it showed the Nazi symbol, oh wait, it actually isn't, there's a difference.

What the bird has on his forehead is the Buddhist symbol (to the left) and not the Swastika symbol (to the right) but I assume nevertheless it would create chaos due to uninformed people moaning about it.

Don't people in US have anything better to do than to complain about what games and anime series feature?

By the way, this anime series score was composed by our beloved Shunsuke Kikuchi.

One of the dungeon maps on the first Zelda game had the same symbol, no one cared.



Also, MR. Popo isn't meant to be African...

Spoiler:

[Tzigi]

This question seems to me (a European) an especially American (as in "coming from the US") one. I have always assumed that both Mr. Popo and Jynx were Black people (or African, or Negroid, or Congoid - or whatever is the present politcally correct way of referring to them) drawn in a simplistic manner. And that's all. The fact that an artist didn't do proper research and drew a simplified version of what he assumed to be Black doesn't imply that he was in any way prejudiced. It only implies he was lazy.

Let me use another example: there's a great Polish comedy Vabank. All of its main characters are thieves/con-men. One of them also works in a casino as a singer - and at one moment in the movie he sings a song that bears the title of the movie, wearing some make up that gives him precisely the same kind of look as both Mr Popo and Jynx have.



This scene wasn't ever meant to showcase any prejudice towards Black people. It only suggests that the casino wanted someone to sing what they considered to be "American music" and in America (also meant probably as "the US") some of the most famous singers are Black - so why not "paint" an employee to resemble them? The whole scene can be seen here. And the fact that his make up is done in a simplified version also implies only that the people in the casino who did this were lazy about it.

[dbboxkaifan]

One of the dungeon maps on the first Zelda game had the same symbol, no one cared.



Also, MR. Popo isn't meant to be African...

Spoiler:

That was during the 90's when people didn't really give two shits about it unlike today which everyone is offensive to them.

[Avenged]

One of the dungeon maps on the first Zelda game had the same symbol, no one cared.



Also, MR. Popo isn't meant to be African...

Spoiler:

That was during the 90's when people didn't really give two shits about it unlike today which everyone is offensive to them.

True, but it was the mid 80s

[TripleRach]

Don't people in US have anything better to do than to complain about what games and anime series feature?

Yes. Sometimes we complain about books and movies too.

I don't particularly care for all the hyper-conservative censorship and ultra-liberal political correctness myself. But Earth hasn't reached a Star Trek state of perfect equality yet, so racism and other types of discrimination are still problems. Some people go too far in trying to be unoffensive, and other people go the other extreme and pretend there are no problems. It's a complicated subject.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Adjutant Black is fine (perhaps the most competent member of the Red Ribbon), but Staff Officer Black, as he's called in the anime, is a bit of a problem. Sure, "Staff Officer" is a more important position, but in Japanese, that's Sanbō. As in, "Black Sambo". (You can blame Toei Animation for that one, though, and not Toriyama.)

So, he is "Adjutant" in the manga/10th Anniversary, but "Staff Officer" in the anime?

[Attitudefan]

So the odds of children in the US associating Popo with black people are very low. That's not to say I think the imagery is harmless or that it's a good idea to keep designing characters that way, especially since it's obviously still an issue in other countries. But it's clearly falling out of cultural awareness, which means less influence on people.

Mr. Popo's design and his broken speech pattern definitely seems questionable, but we don't know for sure what was going through Toriyama's mind when designing him.

Not only that, but are Japanese children going to be able to make the connection between black-face and Mr. Popo? I think not. They would even be further removed from this sort of controversy than children born in the late 20th-century and on-wards.

We do know for a fact that Toriyama does his research, such as he did with the first manned space ship launched by the Russians. So I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Mr Popo was designed off of the black sambo racist caricature.

[ricecake]

A personal anecdote of mine on terms of racism viewed from Oriental friends of mine is this

Some Asians find the term "Oriental" to be offensive, at least in America. (I am Korean and not offended by it; in fact, my father, who is also full-blooded Korean, sometimes uses the word)

[Attitudefan]

A personal anecdote of mine on terms of racism viewed from Oriental friends of mine is this

Some Asians find the term "Oriental" to be offensive, at least in America. (I am Korean and not offended by it; in fact, my father, who is also full-blooded Korean, sometimes uses the word)

Well then... I was trying to be PC as possible and it seems otherwise! Oops! The use of East-Asian/South-East Asian should be fine? I mean, I want to represent the Far East respectively to the Oriental racial/national group(s) and saying "Asian" doesn't specifically represent that since Arabs and Indians would be lumped into that. I thought Oriental was fine.

Honestly though, I find political correctness and censorship to go a little overboard to where one cannot say anything or it is deemed offensive/hateful/spiteful etc. I did not mean to offend in any way though.

[ricecake]

Well then... I was trying to be PC as possible and it seems otherwise! Oops! The use of East-Asian/South-East Asian should be fine? I mean, I want to represent the Far East respectively to the Oriental racial/national group(s) and saying "Asian" doesn't specifically represent that since Arabs and Indians would be lumped into that. I thought Oriental was fine.

Honestly though, I find political correctness and censorship to go a little overboard to where one cannot say anything or it is deemed offensive/hateful/spiteful etc. I did not mean to offend in any way though.

Well, as I said, you don't have to worry about me being offended by that word . I'm not sure how it is in Canada, but from what I can tell, here in the USA, if you say "Asian", then it is assumed to mean East/Southeast Asian, and people usually have to think about it if you use Asian to refer to Indians, or Russians, or Middle-Easterners, etc. However, it seems that it is not seen as offensive in British English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#Current_usage

[TheGmGoken]

Well then... I was trying to be PC as possible and it seems otherwise! Oops! The use of East-Asian/South-East Asian should be fine? I mean, I want to represent the Far East respectively to the Oriental racial/national group(s) and saying "Asian" doesn't specifically represent that since Arabs and Indians would be lumped into that. I thought Oriental was fine.

Honestly though, I find political correctness and censorship to go a little overboard to where one cannot say anything or it is deemed offensive/hateful/spiteful etc. I did not mean to offend in any way though.

Well, as I said, you don't have to worry about me being offended by that word . I'm not sure how it is in Canada, but from what I can tell, here in the USA, if you say "Asian", then it is assumed to mean East/Southeast Asian, and people usually have to think about it if you use Asian to refer to Indians, or Russians, or Middle-Easterners, etc. However, it seems that it is not seen as offensive in British English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#Current_usage

Yea. I never understood why people don't refer to the entire ASIA as Asians. I once called an Indian person "Asian". He got offended said I was an ignorant American. Then I informed him that I'm from Seoul(Cool we both from Korea and live in Maryland ) and that India is in Asia he gave me a dirty look. Do Indians have some sort of grudge with Asia? Even though they are apart of it. Who was the man just pissed that day.

[Attitudefan]

Well then... I was trying to be PC as possible and it seems otherwise! Oops! The use of East-Asian/South-East Asian should be fine? I mean, I want to represent the Far East respectively to the Oriental racial/national group(s) and saying "Asian" doesn't specifically represent that since Arabs and Indians would be lumped into that. I thought Oriental was fine.

Honestly though, I find political correctness and censorship to go a little overboard to where one cannot say anything or it is deemed offensive/hateful/spiteful etc. I did not mean to offend in any way though.

Well, as I said, you don't have to worry about me being offended by that word . I'm not sure how it is in Canada, but from what I can tell, here in the USA, if you say "Asian", then it is assumed to mean East/Southeast Asian, and people usually have to think about it if you use Asian to refer to Indians, or Russians, or Middle-Easterners, etc. However, it seems that it is not seen as offensive in British English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#Current_usage

Yeah, I should've looked it up before posting. Thanks though! I'm failing on keeping up with the times! Hermit status=almost complete

I would say that Asian is definitely the norm—where I am from—however, many times it has been used interchangeably with "Oriental". I've had my professors and teachers use Oriental interchangeably with Asian. However, amongst the younger generations, especially the generations whom have been heavily influenced by the internet at a young age, solely use "Asian" to refer to those from China, Japan, Korea etc.

I thought maybe that the term "Oriental" was more formal, but I have been corrected especially when talking to others internationally! Thanks ricecake!

[Super Sonic]

Being one of the few, if not only African Americans on this board, guess I should put forth my own thoughts. While me and my friends don't see a problem with Jynx, Mr. Popo we're not too keen on, and thus why we prefer Viz's changes to him in the manga, and prefer Mr. Sabat's portrayal to his Japanese voice. Know, it's likely due to Japan not being keen on some things, though I am aware there's others that make my eye wince more, like Cyborg 008's appearance in the first series.

[AgitoZ]

Being one of the few, if not only African Americans on this board, guess I should put forth my own thoughts.

There are plenty of black members on this board and some have already commented in this very thread.

[Gaffer Tape]

though I am aware there's others that make my eye wince more, like Cyborg 008's appearance in the first series.

What's wrong with #8's appearance?

[Super Sonic]

though I am aware there's others that make my eye wince more, like Cyborg 008's appearance in the first series.

What's wrong with #8's appearance?

In the original series, he looked quite like a sambo, while the early 2000s series which aired on Toonami he doesn't.

Being one of the few, if not only African Americans on this board, guess I should put forth my own thoughts.

There are plenty of black members on this board and some have already commented in this very thread.

Haven't been looking through a lot of this thread, and on anime-related forums and such, tend to assume everyone else is white or Asian. Had a few moments talking with one guy from another forum and we both assumed we were the only local black members.

[Gaffer Tape]

though I am aware there's others that make my eye wince more, like Cyborg 008's appearance in the first series.

What's wrong with #8's appearance?

In the original series, he looked quite like a sambo, while the early 2000s series which aired on Toonami he doesn't.

Oh, I thought you were referring to the Dragon Ball character, and I just could not figure out what was even remotely Sambo-esque about him.