Unpopular DB opinions

[thatdbzguy]

Anyway, let's get this thread focused back on the main topic.

Another unpopular "opinion" I have is that the Saiyan and Freeza sagas are bad. Are they as crap as the Cell and Boo sagas? No, they're very much a better set of sagas when seen in a critical perspective. But that doesn't automatically make them good.

Please explain your reasons for this opinion just like you did in a separate thread. I would be dying to know.

RandomGuy already listed some major points for me.

[thatdbzguy]

I don't really find Roshi all that hilarious.

[WittyUsername]

I dislike Brian Drummond as Vegeta. To me Chris Sabat does a much better job as the character.

[TheAldella]

I dislike Brian Drummond as Vegeta. To me Chris Sabat does a much better job as the character.

In honesty, that falls in with the FUNimation YouTube crowd, so the opposite would be more unpopular.

[WittyUsername]

I dislike Brian Drummond as Vegeta. To me Chris Sabat does a much better job as the character.

In honesty, that falls in with the FUNimation YouTube crowd, so the opposite would be more unpopular.

So is it bad to prefer Chris Sabat? I just think his voice fits the whole "proud warrior race" aspect of Vegeta much better than Brian Drummond, especially in Kai.

[ABED]

I dislike Brian Drummond as Vegeta. To me Chris Sabat does a much better job as the character.

In honesty, that falls in with the FUNimation YouTube crowd, so the opposite would be more unpopular.

So is it bad to prefer Chris Sabat? I just think his voice fits the whole "proud warrior race" aspect of Vegeta much better than Brian Drummond, especially in Kai.

I agree although not when he first started. His bad Drummond impression was bad. Did I mention it was bad?

[TheAldella]

I dislike Brian Drummond as Vegeta. To me Chris Sabat does a much better job as the character.

In honesty, that falls in with the FUNimation YouTube crowd, so the opposite would be more unpopular.

So is it bad to prefer Chris Sabat? I just think his voice fits the whole "proud warrior race" aspect of Vegeta much better than Brian Drummond, especially in Kai.

Nope, I never said it was bad. Throughout his performance, he's one-upped Drummond by Kai. I'm excited to see if Drummond can win out again, though...Hm.

[Kid Buu]

Vegeta got more spotlight than Gohan did. I saw someone the other day say otherwise, but I disagree.

Namek: Gohan doesn't win a single fight, where as Vegeta takes out a lot of villains. Vegeta was also more relevant to the plot here.
Cell: Gohan has the Cell Games, but up until then he does NOTHING while Vegeta is omnipresent throughout the ENTIRE arc.
Buu: Gohan was written out of the story so Goku and Vegeta can come back into the spotlight. I rest my case.

Not that I vastly prefer Vegeta over Gohan or vice versa, but my observation of the story.

[RandomGuy96]

Both Vegeta and Gohan are more worthy of being called the main characters of Z than Goku. They're just significantly more involved overall, and have actual character arcs.

[Kid Buu]

Both Vegeta and Gohan are more worthy of being called the main characters of Z than Goku. They're just significantly more involved overall, and have actual character arcs.

Goku had that whole character arc of becoming the mentor and passing the torch. Then he grabbed the torch right back off Gohan, used the flame to wipe out Buu, then handed it to Uub while making sure any post manga material still focused on him.

[ABED]

It's not a requirement of the main character to have an arc, and while a lot of focus is given to Gohan and Vegeta, Goku is still a main character. Dragon Ball is his story.

[goku the krump dancer]

It's not a requirement of the main character to have an arc, and while a lot of focus is given to Gohan and Vegeta, Goku is still a main character. Dragon Ball is his story.

Yeah and pretty much everything revolves around him anyway.. Every arc is the same thing "OMG WE GOTTA WAIT FOR GOKU!!"

[ABED]

It's not a requirement of the main character to have an arc, and while a lot of focus is given to Gohan and Vegeta, Goku is still a main character. Dragon Ball is his story.

Yeah and pretty much everything revolves around him anyway.. Every arc is the same thing "OMG WE GOTTA WAIT FOR GOKU!!"

He is the main character, it's not a surprise, nor a bad thing that the big bad can't be defeated without the main hero. That happens in most shows. The case can't be solved without Monk, Veronica Mars, Columbo, Bones. The super villain can't be defeated without Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man. Not sure why it's a bad thing that the main hero takes precedent.

[RandomGuy96]

It's not a requirement of the main character to have an arc, and while a lot of focus is given to Gohan and Vegeta, Goku is still a main character. Dragon Ball is his story.

A main character =/= the main character. Gohan and Vegeta have more screen time and overall relevance than he does. Dragon Ball is really not his story alone.

Yeah and pretty much everything revolves around him anyway.. Every arc is the same thing "OMG WE GOTTA WAIT FOR GOKU!!"

The Saiyan and Freeza arcs were like that. But in each case, Goku is off-screen for basically the entire rest of the saga, leaving the majority of the screen time and contributions to Gohan and, in the latter case, Vegeta. And when he does show up, he fails and the side characters save him and/or actually beat the bad guy. That's not to say he does nothing, but he's not even in most of these arcs, has no development in them, and in the end isn't even the one who beats the villain.

The Cell and Buu arcs weren't like that in the least. In the first, Goku is defeated by the weakest enemy, is out of commission for pretty much the entire arc, and comes back at the very end only to be toyed with and killed by Cell, leaving Gohan to actually beat him. In the other one, Goku shows up at the beginning of what had been Gohan's story, acts like a dick and screws everything up for everyone, and again leaves, leaving the majority of the screen time to his sons. He returns at the very end to try to fight the villain, but is easily beaten and in the end the good guys only win because of a plan thought up by Vegeta, primarily relying on the power contributions of Gohan. Vegeta even gets to fight Pure Buu more than Goku does, albeit he gets his ass stomped.

[penguintruth]

I'd like to see a play called Waiting for Goku.

[ABED]

I'd like to see a play called Waiting for Goku.

This makes me smile.

A main character =/= the main character. Gohan and Vegeta have more screen time and overall relevance than he does. Dragon Ball is really not his story alone.

Never claimed it was but he's clearly the big gun/hero of the story. Other characters can have screen time and relevance but Goku's clearly the main hero, and I'm not sure Vegeta actually has more screen time.

Goku never needed much in the way of development. What was interesting is how his friends and enemies changed because of him.

You really have this hate on for Goku. "sure he does something, but..." No, Goku's an integral part of the team. Without him there, Nappa, nor Vegeta would've been defeated. It was Goku's attacks and strategy that defeated Vegeta. He had help in the early goings against Freeza, but once he turned Super Saiyan, it was all him. And you make it sound like Gohan mops up after Goku gets toyed with by Cell, as if it's not clear all that went according to Goku's plan. Goku knew he wasn't going to win, he wanted Gohan to see Cell fight. Goku wasn't killed by Cell as you make it sound, Goku went out like a hero saving the world, and Gohan needed his father's encouragement to fight back and defeat Cell.

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku never needed much in the way of development. What was interesting is how his friends and enemies changed because of him.

To be fair, Goku only became a static character after the Freeza Saga. In Dragon Ball and Early DBZ, he had some (subtle) character development. I think that's why Toriyama-sensei tried to shift focus to other characters (Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks etc.).

[Insertclevername]

Goku never needed much in the way of development. What was interesting is how his friends and enemies changed because of him.

To be fair, Goku only became a static character after the Freeza Saga. In Dragon Ball and Early DBZ, he had some (subtle) character development. I think that's why Toriyama-sensei tried to shift focus to other characters (Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks etc.).

Which is a large reason why I start to lose interest in Gokuu post Freeza arc; at least in regards to him being the protagonist. His story by that time felt complete and it was time for him to pass the torch to his son who still had a lot more room to grow.

[ABED]

Goku never needed much in the way of development. What was interesting is how his friends and enemies changed because of him.

To be fair, Goku only became a static character after the Freeza Saga. In Dragon Ball and Early DBZ, he had some (subtle) character development. I think that's why Toriyama-sensei tried to shift focus to other characters (Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks etc.).

He's more or less the same character from beginning to end. He grew to be a wiser fighter, and learned of his origins, but he's essentially the same. I don't think Toriyama ever tried to shift the story to Vegeta. A character doesn't need to change for them to be interesting. Perhaps showing a different strategy by Goku could've been interesting but he has to stay fundamentally who he is.

Concerning Gohan, I get why a lot of people like the "pass the torch" idea, but unless Gohan was to give up on becoming a scholar and essentially become Goku, he's not as interesting in the role. He's just not proactive enough.

[Saiga]

Goku never needed much in the way of development. What was interesting is how his friends and enemies changed because of him.

To be fair, Goku only became a static character after the Freeza Saga. In Dragon Ball and Early DBZ, he had some (subtle) character development. I think that's why Toriyama-sensei tried to shift focus to other characters (Gohan, Vegeta, Goten, Trunks etc.).

Which is a large reason why I start to lose interest in Gokuu post Freeza arc; at least in regards to him being the protagonist. His story by that time felt complete and it was time for him to pass the torch to his son who still had a lot more room to grow.

Yeah, I agree with that. Goku's still very entertaining after these parts - he's also just about the only source of humour during the Cell arc - but he's better off as a supporting character.