Where the Hell does the Trunks who killed Cell come from?

[rereboy]

Rereboy, I agree with your explanation, though I think the Trunks that travels there is from a duplicate of Timeline 1 created by Cell's time traveling. Like you said, Trunks traveling even further back creates a copy of Timeline 2, but since Timeline 2 is created by Timeline 1, a fourth timeline is produced by proxy, which contains the Future Trunks we see in the show who traveled back to timeline 3 and eventually returns and kills Cell and the Androids.

Or I'm an idiot and that's exactly what you're saying and I'm just not following.

But Cell doesn't travel to the past of Timeline 1. If he did he would end up in a duplicate of Timeline 1 instead of a duplicate of Timeline 2. Or maybe I'm just not understanding your thought process.

[B]

Wow, I didn't think the day would come when I had anything close to an understanding of how this all worked. Thanks!

[Herms]

Doesn't the Chozenshuu cut out timeline 4?

Yeah, it essentially ditched Daizenshuu 7's timeline explanation (the one with 4 timelines) and just reuses the one from DB Forever instead, which is a minimalistic 3 timeline explanation that pretty much just recounts what we're told in the series. The way they phrase it, I don't think they really rule out the idea that there are more timelines, it just describes that three that directly pop up in the series, if that makes sense.

[Kamiccolo9]

Doesn't the Chozenshuu cut out timeline 4?

Yeah, it essentially ditched Daizenshuu 7's timeline explanation (the one with 4 timelines) and just reuses the one from DB Forever instead, which is a minimalistic 3 timeline explanation that pretty much just recounts what we're told in the series. The way they phrase it, I don't think they really rule out the idea that there are more timelines, it just describes that three that directly pop up in the series, if that makes sense.

Thanks Herms. I was sure I had heard that somewhere.

[jjgp1112]

Rereboy, I agree with your explanation, though I think the Trunks that travels there is from a duplicate of Timeline 1 created by Cell's time traveling. Like you said, Trunks traveling even further back creates a copy of Timeline 2, but since Timeline 2 is created by Timeline 1, a fourth timeline is produced by proxy, which contains the Future Trunks we see in the show who traveled back to timeline 3 and eventually returns and kills Cell and the Androids.

Or I'm an idiot and that's exactly what you're saying and I'm just not following.

But Cell doesn't travel to the past of Timeline 1. If he did he would end up in a duplicate of Timeline 1 instead of a duplicate of Timeline 2. Or maybe I'm just not understanding your thought process.

I meant that he travels to the past of Timeline 2.

[rereboy]

I meant that he travels to the past of Timeline 2.

Ok. What you are saying is not very different from my opinion but I think Timeline 4 only appears because Trunks in Timeline 3 tries to travel to Timeline 1, creating a paradox. If he didn't try to travel to Timeline 1 or if he traveled to a point in time in Timeline 1 that didn't create a paradox, there would be no Timeline 4.

[hleV]

Which history does the series' Trunks come from? H1 Trunks travels to H2 and back. H1 Cell travels to H3. Which Trunks travels to H3? I don't quite grasp the idea of a copied/duplicated history having Trunks coming out of nowhere.

[rereboy]

Which history does the series' Trunks come from? H1 Trunks travels to H2 and back. H1 Cell travels to H3. Which Trunks travels to H3? I don't quite grasp the idea of a copied/duplicated history having Trunks coming out of nowhere.

Think about what happens when a new Timeline is formed. Exactly what happens? Everything is copied right? Suddenly we have two Earths, two Gokus, two everything, one in one Timeline and one in the other.

That includes everything that happened in the past of the newly formed Timeline.

For example, the new Timeline also has a past in which Bardock died at the hands of Freeza. Therefore there are two Bardocks, one in one Timeline and one in the other. In this case the event happens exactly like it happened in the original Timeline because its a duplicated event and there are no changes introduced by the Time traveler in this particular event.

But its not just the past that its copied. Everything is copied, including the future events. Future events will happen in the newly formed Timeline like they happen in the future of the original Timeline. Get it? A Timeline includes the past, present and future. If an entire Timeline is duplicated, its past, present and Future are also duplicated. That's why there's also a Trunks appearing. The appearance of Trunks is an event that is part of Timeline 2 and was duplicated because of it.

However, the newly formed Timeline doesn't remain exactly the same as the original Timeline. Why? Because the time traveller introduces changes. His interference influence the events that otherwise would remain exactly the same. So, Trunks appears just like in Timeline 2 as a duplication but he differs from the Trunks in Timeline 2 thanks to the changes introduced by Cell.

[hleV]

A new history is a new history (I believe they call it history officially). The past is shared, sure, but the future is yet to be made. Trunks wasn't supposed to timetravel to that particular history, because it's another, separate history. The time machine goes through histories: at first there was just one history, but Trunks made the 2nd and Cell made the 3rd (Trunks never travelled there, or at least couldn't). The point in time when Trunks goes to the past for the first time has already passed (in fact, he's dead), so no more time travels/new history creations should happen.

H1 Trunks goes to H2 and back. H1 Cell goes to H3. There is no Trunks to go to H3.
I have no idea where the series' Trunks comes from, but it's a big assumption (theories are theories, I guess) that a newly created history is destined to have its own version of Trunks and that he doesn't even come from anywhere, just "exists". But then, even though it's a big assumption, it might as well be the best one there is, because I can't think of a better explanation for Trunks' existence in H3 to save my life.

[rereboy]

A new history is a new history (I believe they call it history officially). The past is shared, sure, but the future is yet to be made. Trunks wasn't supposed to timetravel to that particular history, because it's another, separate history. The time machine goes through histories: at first there was just one history, but Trunks made the 2nd and Cell made the 3rd (Trunks never travelled there, or at least couldn't). The point in time when Trunks goes to the past for the first time has already passed (in fact, he's dead), so no more time travels/new history creations should happen.

H1 Trunks goes to H2 and back. H1 Cell goes to H3. There is no Trunks to go to H3.
I have no idea where the series' Trunks comes from, but it's a big assumption (theories are theories, I guess) that a newly created history is destined to have its own version of Trunks and that he doesn't even come from anywhere, just "exists". But then, even though it's a big assumption, it might as well be the best one there is, because I can't think of a better explanation for Trunks' existence in H3 to save my life.

I don't think its actually any different from any other character or event that exist in Timeline 3. Think about it. All of them appear out of nowhere. They are all duplicated from Timeline 2. They didn't exist before the time travel that created Timeline 3. How exactly is Trunks any different? Really, think about it, everything event that belongs to that Timeline was duplicated. Trunks appearing is part of Timeline 2. In fact, its Trunks appearance that makes Timeline 2 different from Timeline 1. Timeline 2's existence and characteristics depend on the fact that Trunks appears on it. So why wouldn't he duplicated? He is a part of it like everything else.

[thatdbzguy]

Don't try to rationalize the Cell saga. Everything about it is a terrible mess.

[Marco Polo]

Don't try to rationalize the Cell saga. Everything about it is a terrible mess.

More like "don't bother reading this topic because there's too much text for thatdbzguy" I guess you mean?

If you actually did bother reading it, you'd find that rereboy's theory makes sense.

[hleV]

I keep writing and rewriting what I have to say and end up with nothing... For now I'll ask this. When Trunks pops up and suddenly starts existing in H3 only because he travelled to and appeared in H2 (which H3 derives from), which history does he travel "back" to? It can't be H1, because the original Trunks exists there.

[Herms]

More like "don't bother reading this topic because there's too much text for thatdbzguy" I guess you mean?

That's completely uncalled for.

[B]

I keep writing and rewriting what I have to say and end up with nothing... For now I'll ask this. When Trunks pops up and suddenly starts existing in H3 only because he travelled to and appeared in H2 (which H3 derives from), which history does he travel "back" to? It can't be H1, because the original Trunks exists there.

History 4. The history he creates in an attempt to go back to History 1.

[jjgp1112]

I keep writing and rewriting what I have to say and end up with nothing... For now I'll ask this. When Trunks pops up and suddenly starts existing in H3 only because he travelled to and appeared in H2 (which H3 derives from), which history does he travel "back" to? It can't be H1, because the original Trunks exists there.

My theory is that another timeline was created simultaneously when Cell traveled back, because Timeline 2's very existence is a product of Trunks from Timeline 1 traveling to it. As a result, the "past" and "future" (T1) are permanently connected to each other and when Cell creates a paradox of the "past" (Timeline 2), it's "future" is created as well because its destined that Trunks will travel to it.

[rereboy]

I keep writing and rewriting what I have to say and end up with nothing... For now I'll ask this. When Trunks pops up and suddenly starts existing in H3 only because he travelled to and appeared in H2 (which H3 derives from), which history does he travel "back" to? It can't be H1, because the original Trunks exists there.

He tries to travel back to Timeline 1, but he can't because that would cause a paradox, so he arrives at Timeline 4, a duplicate a of Timeline 1.

If you are wondering why there's not another Trunks in Timeline 4 arriving at the same time since there is a Trunks traveling from Timeline 2 to Timeline 1 that should also have been duplicated into Timeline 4, I also cover that in my theory by saying this: Trunks from Timeline 3 probably returns to the same exact point in time and even the same exact place that Trunks in Timeline 2 chose to return, right? I mean, there's no reason for them to choose different times, it probably already was programmed into the machine and the fact that Cell only appeared a little later in both cases seems to support this.

So, that would mean that both would appear at the same exact and at the same exact place in Timeline 4, the Trunks from Timeline 3 and the duplicate. Well, two different objects can't exist at the same time at the same place can't they? Its not possible. So, what would happen? There's two possibilities that I can think of: either both would die, or one would "overwrite" the other. The series shows us that Trunks from Timeline 3 arrived well and there's no sign of the duplicate so Trunks "overwrote" the duplicate, IMO.

[hleV]

I keep writing and rewriting what I have to say and end up with nothing... For now I'll ask this. When Trunks pops up and suddenly starts existing in H3 only because he travelled to and appeared in H2 (which H3 derives from), which history does he travel "back" to? It can't be H1, because the original Trunks exists there.

My theory is that another timeline was created simultaneously when Cell traveled back, because Timeline 2's very existence is a product of Trunks from Timeline 1 traveling to it. As a result, the "past" and "future" (T1) are permanently connected to each other and when Cell creates a paradox of the "past" (Timeline 2), it's "future" is created as well because its destined that Trunks will travel to it.

I was thinking of something like that as well. If a history features Trunks arriving from the future, then that Trunks has to come from/go to somewhere. For a history that derives from H2 to exist, a history that derives from H1 must exist, thus H4.

[90sDBZ]

Timeline 1: original timeline. Trunks travel back creating Timeline 2 ; (read after reading Timeline 2): After returning, Trunks defeats the androids, probably with the remote. But Cell awakens and kills Trunks. Cell travels back in time.

Timeline 2: timeline born out of Trunks time travel. Its events differ from Timeline 1 after the arrival of Freeza. They somehow defeat the androids thanks to Trunks and his help, probably using the remote to shut them off. Trunks returns to his own Timeline, probably with the remote to shut the androids off.

Timeline 3: timeline created by Cell's time travel. This timeline differs in events from Timeline 2 after the arrival of Cell, which is some time before the arrival of Freeza, but the differences are only noticeable after Cell reveals himself. Its important to note that this Timeline is created from Timeline 2, not Timeline 1, hence why it includes the different events of Timeline 2 with the added interference of Cell. This is the main timeline, the one we see in the series. Cell is killed by Gohan and Trunks returns home.

Timeline 4: timeline created by Trunks' attempt to return to Timeline 1 from Timeline 3. Since he tried to return to a point in time before Cell had time travelled, which created Timeline 3, the return of Trunks creates a brand new Timeline so that the paradox is resolved. This is why and how different Timelines are created, by the way. But they only are created when the time travel creates a paradox. Its possible to simply travel between Timelines as long as it doesn't create a paradox. For example, when Trunks returns home after warning about the androids and then simply returns later to that timeline to help against them, there's no temporal paradox, because the timeline already existed and Trunks didn't travel to a problematic moment in time. So that doesn't create a paradox nor a new Timeline. Anyway, like I was saying, Trunks attempt to return creates a new Timeline, Timeline 4. In this one, Trunks is strong enough to kill the androids and Cell with his power.

Okay I have a question. So saying that Timeline 4 was created after Trunks attempted travelling from Timeline 3 to Timeline 1 following the Cell Games. Shouldn't there have already been a paradox when Trunks went back to his "own time" after giving Goku the warning in timeline 3? At that point Cell was already on earth in Timeline 3 in his shell meaning the events that lead to Goku and the others training in the Time Chamber were already set to happen which would also mean that Timeline 4 was already set to happen and therefore could have existed already. Anyway I'm getting confused.

[B]

Okay I have a question. So saying that Timeline 4 was created after Trunks attempted travelling from Timeline 3 to Timeline 1 following the Cell Games. Shouldn't there have already been a paradox when Trunks went back to his "own time" after giving Goku the warning in timeline 3?

No, because Trunks returns to his timeline in Timeline 2 as well. Cell's time travel created a copy of Timeline 2(Timeline 3/the series) where everything is the same until he starts messing things up.

Timeline 2 Trunks gets killed in Timeline 1 by Cell, and then Cell goes back in time, creating Timeline 3. Timeline 3 Trunks goes back to Timeline 1, doesn't get killed because Timeline 1 Cell isn't there to kill him, and comes back to Timeline 3.