When Goku arrived on Namek (Power Level)

[Duo]

I always interpreted the Ginyu Kaio-ken scene as basically saying that Goku can use the lower levels of Kaio-ken much longer now that he's become so much greater in power.

[ABED]

He toys with Jheese.
Is the sleep thing speculation or canon? I assume the senzu replenished his energy, or are you assuming it was a caffeine boost?

(sleep is not just about replacing energy, we need to sleep even if we don't get out of bed)

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

[rereboy]

rere, which attacks were Jheese tanking? From what I remember, Vegeta pummeled him with ease before disintegrating him.

He wasn't tanking them but he didn't immediately die like he should have with attacks from a 300.000 power level opponent that was trying to kill him and neither did Ginyu-Goku that was even weaker.

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

Kaio thought he would take two days but he made it under 24 hours.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think Vegeta was around 250,000 at that point. If not, perhaps around 130,000 or so. I don't think Vegeta needs to take him out in a single attack in order to show the considerable difference between them. Vegeta only needed to land two attacks on both Jheese and Ginyu to basically put them out of commission, so we know he was way stronger. He went in for the finish after knocking Ginyu down and knocking Jheese in the air, so those attacks were just to show off his dominance, I believe. I mean, Vegeta goes out of his way to chop through Jheese's armor just because.

[Draken]

Gohan does mention that Vegeta was tired for not sleeping for days.

Vegeta tells Jheese his power is "constantly rising", so I'm guessing it's more about that than the power nap. I don't think the nap was that long, anyway.

rere, which attacks were Jheese tanking? From what I remember, Vegeta pummeled him with ease before disintegrating him.

I think what they're saying is that Vegeta shouldn't have needed more than a hit to completely decimate a guy who was like, 7-8 times weaker than him. Vegeta shouldn't have needed to pummel him around.

[ABED]

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

Kaio thought he would take two days but he made it under 24 hours.

Did he? Interesting. Still, 24 hours at full power has to be VERY exhausting.

[Duo]

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

Kaio thought he would take two days but he made it under 24 hours.

Did he? Interesting. Still, 24 hours at full power has to be VERY exhausting.

That's probably why he didn't even hesitate to eat a senzu even though he knew he could easily be walking into a battlefield of corpses.

[Herms]

Then why have him use Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2? Why not just call it the same thing?

It seems like a Toriyama-created plot hole. During the Vegeta fight, Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2 seem to be treated as two different things, though the narrator specifies that Kaio-ken doubles Goku's battle power (so what does KK x2 do?). Then in the Freeza fight, Tenshinhan explains that the Kaio-ken x10 makes Goku 10 times as powerful, which obviously implies that the KKx2 makes him 2 times as powerful...meaning it should be the same as the plain old Kaio-ken.

Apparently, there are a bunch of video games where regular Kaio-ken makes you x1.5 stronger, though this goes against what the narrator says in the manga.

[rereboy]

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

Kaio thought he would take two days but he made it under 24 hours.

Did he? Interesting. Still, 24 hours at full power has to be VERY exhausting.

But Senzu beans took care of that. They might only not take care of the need to sleep but under 24 hours without sleeping is very doable.

It seems like a Toriyama-created plot hole. During the Vegeta fight, Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x2 seem to be treated as two different things, though the narrator specifies that Kaio-ken doubles Goku's battle power (so what does KK x2 do?). Then in the Freeza fight, Tenshinhan explains that the Kaio-ken x10 makes Goku 10 times as powerful, which obviously implies that the KKx2 makes him 2 times as powerful...meaning it should be the same as the plain old Kaio-ken.

Apparently, there are a bunch of video games where regular Kaio-ken makes you x1.5 stronger, though this goes against what the narrator says in the manga.

I don't really think its a plothole. I understood perfectly that it was the same thing the first time I read and that the author was making clear for the reader the different stages of Kaioken now that Goku would be going beyond regular Kaioken.

[ABED]

Hence the caffeine comment. Still the senzu does replenish energy. Goku flew full speed 2 days straight to get down the Serpentine Road.

Kaio thought he would take two days but he made it under 24 hours.

Did he? Interesting. Still, 24 hours at full power has to be VERY exhausting.

But Senzu beans took care of that. They might only not take care of the need to sleep but under 24 hours without sleeping is very doable.

He was asleep in the rejuvenation tank, how long was his nap before Freeza?

[rereboy]

He was asleep in the rejuvenation tank, how long was his nap before Freeza?

Almost five days pass between Vegeta's escape from the tank and the arrival of the Ginyu force. Even a small nap would do wonders in those conditions.

[ABED]

He was asleep in the rejuvenation tank, how long was his nap before Freeza?

Almost five days pass between Vegeta's escape from the tank and the arrival of the Ginyu force. Even a small nap would do wonders in those conditions.

Is it explicitly state what he does in those five days? Unless Saiyan physiology is vastly different, Vegeta would not be highly functional. I've read that after a certain number of days, you experience hallucinations.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Doesn't he stay awake and guard his Dragon Balls, as well as try to keep his senses open to find Gohan and/or Kuririn?

[rereboy]

Doesn't he stay awake and guard his Dragon Balls, as well as try to keep his senses open to find Gohan and/or Kuririn?

Yup. This is what happens.

Is it explicitly state what he does in those five days? Unless Saiyan physiology is vastly different, Vegeta would not be highly functional. I've read that after a certain number of days, you experience hallucinations.

Which is why the anime added a filler scene of him almost passing out due to the lack of sleep in front of Goku's healing tank, just before he takes his nap.

[ABED]

2 days is the equivalent of being drunk.

[rereboy]

That's why I stated that it probably affected his power level, which would explain why he seems much stronger agaisnt Freeza than against Ginyu-Goku.

[freezamite]

What I find ridiculous is when the power levels start going up greater than someone's base level. I bought Vegeta going from 18k to 24k, but it's hard to swallow that he goes from getting trashed by Reacoom to strong enough to cause Freeza to struggle. Hell, I bought Goku going from 180k to 300k when that's what I thought happened but when the 300k was revealed to be a translation error, it was just ridiculous.

300.000 for Goku it's the real deal though. Even if some people though Goku was 300.000 because of a translation error, that translation error casually corrected an interpretation error made by the Daizenshuu.

Goku was 300.000 when he fought against Freezer, but he didn't went from 180k to 300k, he went from 90k to 300k.

[ABED]

What I find ridiculous is when the power levels start going up greater than someone's base level. I bought Vegeta going from 18k to 24k, but it's hard to swallow that he goes from getting trashed by Reacoom to strong enough to cause Freeza to struggle. Hell, I bought Goku going from 180k to 300k when that's what I thought happened but when the 300k was revealed to be a translation error, it was just ridiculous.

300.000 for Goku it's the real deal though. Even if some people though Goku was 300.000 because of a translation error, that translation error casually corrected an interpretation error made by the Daizenshuu.

Goku was 300.000 when he fought against Freezer, but he didn't went from 180k to 300k, he went from 90k to 300k.

I read it was 3million, not 300k.

[Saiga]

Officially, it is 3,000,000. Freezamite is arguing he knows better than official materials and it's actually 300,000.

[freezamite]

Officially, it is 3,000,000. Freezamite is arguing he knows better than official materials and it's actually 300,000.

"Officially", Goku couldn't even lift a bus without the help of piccolo after coming back from Namek (anime filler where he learns to drive), but the manga says otherwise.
"Officially", Nappa was 4000 and fought a +8000 Goku in equal terms.

Officially, the manga it's as official as the Daizenshuu, but much more credible because it's the original source.
And yes, in terms of power levels the official section of the Daizenshuu is full of mistakes that were discussed and demonstrated in other threads absolutely impossible to justify based on what's said and drawn on the manga.

I know the manga enough to say that Goku wasn't 3.000.000 but 300.000, and that the KK x 10 was used the whole time since the beginning of the fight. This is not Freezamite vs Daizenshuu, this is Manga vs Daizenshuu, and I go with the manga.

I read it was 3million, not 300k.

3 million is what the Daizenshuu gives to Goku, but like Raditz's 1500 and Nappa's 4000 it clearly contradicts what was seen on the manga, which in my opinion is the superior source of information.