What if Toriyama never created the Cell saga?

[TheAldella]

Hm. Apologies for my previous post. Well, if he'd implemented a few plot points, like Bulma and Vegeta's relationship Actually developing, then maybe it could work out better.

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo wasn't that creative of a villain either. He's a demon. So he hates peace and justice. And wants to take over the world. But at least he was so over-the-top hammy that he was interesting to watch.

Daimao always reminded me of Megatron, especially the Beast Wars version. I love the over-the-top evil hammy villains.

As far as Cell's concerned, I'm not a big fan of manga Perfect Cell, but I love Damion Clarke's portrayal of him in the Funimation Dub. He makes what is, in my opinion, a dull character have an actual personality beyond "I wanna be bad and fight strong guys."

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo wasn't that creative of a villain either. He's a demon. So he hates peace and justice. And wants to take over the world. But at least he was so over-the-top hammy that he was interesting to watch.

Daimao always reminded me of Megatron, especially the Beast Wars version. I love the over-the-top evil hammy villains.

As far as Cell's concerned, I'm not a big fan of manga Perfect Cell, but I love Damion Clarke's portrayal of him in the Funimation Dub. He makes what is, in my opinion, a dull character have an actual personality beyond "I wanna be bad and fight strong guys."

I don't love him, but Clarke's Super Perfect Ham is definitely an improvement over manga Cell.

[Kid Buu]

Both Freeza and Cell lost their appeal when they began transforming. The whole Freeza fight felt pointless until his final form, where as Cell just became boring with no real goal.

[ABED]

No real goal? Fighting Goku was his goal. To his knowledge, GOku was the best fight he was ever going to get.

I'm sorry, but how is blowing up the world going to help him use his form to his maximum? Does he have a spaceship? Does he want to go to other planets to find strong people? If not, can he survive in space? And even if he can, how would he quickly get to other planets? I mean, sheesh, the people he absorbed were teenagers, but even they, in an alternate timeline, had the good sense to draw out their desired destruction over the course of decades so that they wouldn't get bored. Cell's just gonna throw it away in an afternoon! That's stupid!
Cell can survive in space. When did he want to blow up the world, other than when he self destructed?

We don't get that with Cell.

We do get that he enjoys seeing the look of terror on people's faces.

[Saiga]

First off, Second Form Cell is easily the least aesthetically-pleasing design Toriyama has ever put out. Why did Toriyama like this design? How could anyone disagree with his editor to get this stupid crap off the page as soon as possible? Every time he's shown, I just want someone to punch him in his ugly face! But it certainly doesn't help that that entire sequence on those islands just takes for-freaking-ever!

It's not so much disagreement with his former editor but the way it was handled - which was piss poor. If the appearance is bad enough (although I'd only agree that it's his worst form, not that it's awful or anything) then that form being a total bitch is infinitely worse. Cell transforming into a less appealing looking form? Acceptable, especially given that this is Dragon Ball. Cell transforming into a total bitch? Not so much. I wouldn't have had his second form around much longer than it was - actually, it might have been shorter - but just let Cell retain his dignity in that form before reaching his perfect form.

I'd thought about how the events could unfold in a more satisfying way (to me) and I don't know if you're interested but in case you are: I'd delay Cell's first transformation until after Vegeta's arrival. Instead of absorbing 17 while battling 16, Cell would have taken 16 out with a surprise attack (appearing behind 16 instead of 17) and then Vegeta shows up, gets to have his moment of beating Cell up, who then absorbs 17 and beats up Vegeta. Then Trunks makes a fool of himself, and Cell doesn't kill him because he realised 18 has bounced and now he has to go track her down. Then we get our equivalent of the 10 day wait (Goku and Gohan leave the RoSaT, new Dragon Balls, humour etc) and we don't see Cell until he tracks down 18 (somehow) and absorbs her. Goku and the others arrive to see him transform into his Perfect form and the battles play out similar to the Cell Games... without the stupid Cell games.

If you want you can really avoid getting into Cell's motives because he's basically jumped the moment he reaches his perfect form. Not sure if that's such a good idea though.

[Kid Buu]

No real goal? Fighting Goku was his goal. To his knowledge, GOku was the best fight he was ever going to get.

I'm sorry, but how is blowing up the world going to help him use his form to his maximum? Does he have a spaceship? Does he want to go to other planets to find strong people? If not, can he survive in space? And even if he can, how would he quickly get to other planets? I mean, sheesh, the people he absorbed were teenagers, but even they, in an alternate timeline, had the good sense to draw out their desired destruction over the course of decades so that they wouldn't get bored. Cell's just gonna throw it away in an afternoon! That's stupid!
Cell can survive in space. When did he want to blow up the world, other than when he self destructed?

We don't get that with Cell.

We do get that he enjoys seeing the look of terror on people's faces.

Uhh....what? First you're saying stuff like "If not, can he survive in space?" then you're saying "Cell can survive in space." Its like your talking to yourself.

[Gaffer Tape]

He's quoting me but apparently forgot to actually do so. But to respond...

You ask when Cell wanted to blow up the world. Those are the terms of the Cell Games. If he wins the game, he blows up the world, thereby eliminating anyone who poses any competition for him or chance for a fight. Seems rather counterproductive if you ask me, especially given that this is the guy who sportingly gave his competition time to prepare!

[ABED]

He's quoting me but apparently forgot to actually do so. But to respond...

You ask when Cell wanted to blow up the world. Those are the terms of the Cell Games. If he wins the game, he blows up the world, thereby eliminating anyone who poses any competition for him or chance for a fight. Seems rather counterproductive if you ask me, especially given that this is the guy who sportingly gave his competition time to prepare!

Yeah, my bad about the quotes.

Did he say when he would blow up the world?

Counterproductive is probably the wrong word since if he wins the Cell Games, he's defeated the strongest already.

I'd thought about how the events could unfold in a more satisfying way (to me) and I don't know if you're interested but in case you are: I'd delay Cell's first transformation until after Vegeta's arrival. Instead of absorbing 17 while battling 16, Cell would have taken 16 out with a surprise attack (appearing behind 16 instead of 17) and then Vegeta shows up, gets to have his moment of beating Cell up, who then absorbs 17 and beats up Vegeta. Then Trunks makes a fool of himself, and Cell doesn't kill him because he realised 18 has bounced and now he has to go track her down. Then we get our equivalent of the 10 day wait (Goku and Gohan leave the RoSaT, new Dragon Balls, humour etc) and we don't see Cell until he tracks down 18 (somehow) and absorbs her. Goku and the others arrive to see him transform into his Perfect form and the battles play out similar to the Cell Games... without the stupid Cell games.

I really like that, especially about having trouble tracking 18 down.

One of my big points of contention is the Z team not tracking down Gero when they have the chance. It makes them look like asses. Have them track him down, but he gets away and evades them.

[thatdbzguy]

In other words, your least favorite arc in the series is Cell, which translates to: everyone else must dislike it the most as well.

That isn't what I'm saying at all. Most regular users on here have said that the Cell arc is their least favorite, or at least one of their least favorites. Remember the thread asking what the most overrated arc was? Every single person voted for the Cell saga.

The Cell saga used to be my favorite, but after looking at all of the complaints towards it, I realized that I shouldn't like it.

[ABED]

In other words, your least favorite arc in the series is Cell, which translates to: everyone else must dislike it the most as well.

That isn't what I'm saying at all. Most regular users on here have said that the Cell arc is their least favorite, or at least one of their least favorites. Remember the thread asking what the most overrated arc was? Every single person voted for the Cell saga.

The Cell saga used to be my favorite, but after looking at all of the complaints towards it, I realized that I shouldn't like it.

In other words, you are a complete second hander. I have this feeling that either you are incredibly insecure or you are yanking everyone's chain to get a reaction.

[thatdbzguy]

In other words, your least favorite arc in the series is Cell, which translates to: everyone else must dislike it the most as well.

That isn't what I'm saying at all. Most regular users on here have said that the Cell arc is their least favorite, or at least one of their least favorites. Remember the thread asking what the most overrated arc was? Every single person voted for the Cell saga.

The Cell saga used to be my favorite, but after looking at all of the complaints towards it, I realized that I shouldn't like it.

In other words, you are a complete second hander. I have this feeling that either you are incredibly insecure or you are yanking everyone's chain to get a reaction.

The former.

[Nanotchi]

Why be insecure? Just explain your opinions and well, we'd accept them or try to politely argue.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Most people here agree that the Cell saga is by far the worst saga out of all of Dragon Ball.

Do they? I don't know that they do. I'm not saying everyone loves the Cell arc, but I don't think the general consensus is that it's the worst arc in Dragon Ball.

[thatdbzguy]

Why be insecure? Just explain your opinions and well, we'd accept them or try to politely argue.

Back when I liked the Cell saga, I couldn't explain why I liked it. I was just being a blind fanboy. Now, after others have pointed out its ungodly amount of issues, I can't bring myself to like it anymore.

[thatdbzguy]

Most people here agree that the Cell saga is by far the worst saga out of all of Dragon Ball.

Do they? I don't know that they do. I'm not saying everyone loves the Cell arc, but I don't think the general consensus is that it's the worst arc in Dragon Ball.

On Kanzenshuu? Yeah, it's the general consensus.

Most people who like the Cell saga only like it for incredibly shallow reasons, like nostalgia or "OMGZ GOHAN IZ SO BADAZZZZ!". When you look at it from a deeper perspective, you'll see just how terrible it really is, which is what most folks here do.

Of course, the same could be said about DBZ in general.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I have to ask. Are you trying to bring your one and only Holy Truth to Kanzenshuu or something like that?
I think that I haven't seen you write anything that isn't "Cell Saga/DBZ is bad, that's my opinion and it's the right one, so you're all wrong".

[thatdbzguy]

I have to ask. Are you trying to bring your one and only Holy Truth to Kanzenshuu or something like that?
I think that I haven't seen you write anything that isn't "Cell Saga/DBZ is bad, that's my opinion and it's the right one, so you're all wrong".

No, I'm not trying to tell people that they're wrong for having different opinions. I just want for some to look at things in a different way.

And I don't say good things about DBZ because I have no good things to say about it.

[DBGod]

I have to ask. Are you trying to bring your one and only Holy Truth to Kanzenshuu or something like that?
I think that I haven't seen you write anything that isn't "Cell Saga/DBZ is bad, that's my opinion and it's the right one, so you're all wrong".

I was going to write the exact same thing lol.

For someone who's name is "thatdbzguy" you sure dont have many/anything positive to say about an anime you supposedly like If you dont have anything good to say about anything Dragon Ball related, then I would like to ask you, why are you even participating in these forums? Kanzenshuu is a fan based forum, not a trash talking forum. I'm being serious, not trying to start an argument btw.

I dont know about anyone here, but I'm kinda getting annoyed with all of these "Why does this saga suck" or "What do you hate about this" threads.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I dont know about anyone here, but I'm kinda getting annoyed with all of these "Why does this saga suck" or "What do you hate about this" threads.

You would not be alone in that feeling, at all. It's one thing to talk about how you would personally change things in an arc or something, because some really cool fan ideas can come out of discussions like that. But just blanket statements of 'This sucks, I hate this, blargh' not only get old fast, but come off extremely (and pointlessly) bitter, especially if that is all that one ever seems to say.

On topic, I'll just say that if Toriyama never did the 'Cell' saga, than maybe it would have just been Androids 17 and 18. Or maybe even just 19 and 20, both of the 'original plans'. Or maybe he'd have come up with something else entirely, who knows. The only thing we can say for sure is that something probably would have been made because the series must have still been doing pretty well at that time since it was continuing at all. Had it went in an entirely different direction though, who knows if we would have gotten another story arc after that, or GT, or anything else that's come out since that time though.