Why are Goku & Chi-Chi the only flawed parents of the show??

[Ninja Murasaki]

I don't know if I'd say she's exactly that, but I would say she often gets a pass from her bad behavior from male fans because, "Dur hur! She's hot!"

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).[/quote]

Are you sure about that?

I mostly see Male fans defend Bulma's actions because she's hot and female fans defend her because she has Trunks.

[Kamiccolo9]

More recent interview

Yamcha’s Epilogue:
Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired. His livelihood is mainly working together with Pu’er as a freelance bodyguard, but he occasionally goes to Tenshinhan’s to help with the farm, as well.

Source.

I'm not really sure how this refutes what I posted. Surely it's possible for Yamcha to be nervous while cheating on his girlfriend?
And none of that says that he didn't cheat, so it does not refute the stuff that says he did cheat. These different interviews are not mutually exclusive.

And, in response to the post above this one, I am not defending Bulma. But she is not the only one at fault here.

[Ninja Murasaki]

More recent interview

Yamcha’s Epilogue:
Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired. His livelihood is mainly working together with Pu’er as a freelance bodyguard, but he occasionally goes to Tenshinhan’s to help with the farm, as well.

Source.

I'm not really sure how this refutes what I posted. Surely it's possible for Yamcha to be nervous while cheating on his girlfriend?
And none of that says that he didn't cheat, so it does not refute the stuff that says he did cheat. These different interviews are not mutually exclusive.

How can Yamcha cheat if he's so nervous around females that he can't even be around women? That doesn't make any sense.

Additionally this was the actual words of Toriyama, while the oter interview was secondhand, IE: the basics of what Toriyama said to dismiss Furuya's question.

Also I've noticed most of the people pushing that idea forward hate Yamcha in the first place and want an excuse to bash him.

[Kamiccolo9]

More recent interview

Yamcha’s Epilogue:
Like you, KenKoba, he has the dilemma of loving women but not being good around them, so he is still wandering blindly in search of the ideal partner he won’t be nervous around. He’s even worked in a host club, but because of his nervousness, it didn’t go well and he was fired. His livelihood is mainly working together with Pu’er as a freelance bodyguard, but he occasionally goes to Tenshinhan’s to help with the farm, as well.

Source.

I'm not really sure how this refutes what I posted. Surely it's possible for Yamcha to be nervous while cheating on his girlfriend?
And none of that says that he didn't cheat, so it does not refute the stuff that says he did cheat. These different interviews are not mutually exclusive.

How can Yamcha cheat if he's so nervous around females that he can't even be around women? That doesn't make any sense.

Additionally this was the actual words of Toriyama, while the oter interview was secondhand, IE: the basics of what Toriyama said to dismiss Furuya's question.

Also I've noticed most of the people pushing that idea forward hate Yamcha in the first place and want an excuse to bash him.

I'll deal with your last post (and an attempt to discredit me?) by saying that I don't hate Yamcha. Nor do I like him. I'm indifferent. Personally, I think he's a boring character, especially by the time the Z portion rolls around, and this flaw made hi more interesting.

Now that that's over, I'll repost what I said earlier, which you seem to have ignored.

And people make mistakes. It's not "out of character." People are not static, unchanging beings that never stray from their comfort zone.

He can be nervous around women and still cheat. It happens in real life all the time.

Finally, your quote does not negate the possibility of him cheating. Mine, on the other hand, while being a second-hand quote, matches up with what is said in the Cell Arc. It violates nothing, and supports what is stated.

[Gaffer Tape]

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).

I never claimed it was all-encompassing. Different people are going to have different opinions. But in general, I do think fans overlook Blooma's personality flaws.

[DBZAOTA482]

^^Pretty sure the cheating thing was left to be ambiguous.

I... what? I'm confused. How did Blooma get into this conversation? Are you saying she's a bad parent? Or is she not?

She's not a bad parent (but she's not particularly good either). I'm just curious.

I don't know if I'd say she's exactly that, but I would say she often gets a pass from her bad behavior from male fans because, "Dur hur! She's hot!"

Don't forget she's rich. And she doesn't have to be evil to qualify. At best they could be morally ambiguous (which Bulma is).

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).

Who the fuck said that?

I also have noticed people giving Bulma some heat though it's nothing compared to what Chi-Chi or even Videl get. Seems like #18 is the only female character that avoid any character bashing.

[Ninja Murasaki]

I'll deal with your last post (and an attempt to discredit me?) by saying that I don't hate Yamcha. Nor do I like him. I'm indifferent. Personally, I think he's a boring character, especially by the time the Z portion rolls around, and this flaw made hi more interesting.

I'm not referring to you specifically, but most fans I've met who push that belief are the kind who fanatically hate Yamcha.

Now that that's over, I'll repost what I said earlier, which you seem to have ignored.

And people make mistakes. It's not "out of character." People are not static, unchanging beings that never stray from their comfort zone.

He can be nervous around women and still cheat. It happens in real life all the time.

Because it is totally out of character from all we know of Yamcha.

If Yamcha's so nervous around females that he can't even date or be around them, how would he be able to handle finding, seeing, and sleeping with multiple women?

Finally, your quote does not negate the possibility of him cheating. Mine, on the other hand, while being a second-hand quote, matches up with what is said in the Cell Arc. It violates nothing, and supports what is stated.

It basically does, as I explained above.

[RandomGuy96]

Nope. There is no character in the history of popular fiction who doesn't have at least some sizable amount of people who bash them.

[Kamiccolo9]

I'll deal with your last post (and an attempt to discredit me?) by saying that I don't hate Yamcha. Nor do I like him. I'm indifferent. Personally, I think he's a boring character, especially by the time the Z portion rolls around, and this flaw made hi more interesting.

I'm not referring to you specifically, but most fans I've met who push that belief are the kind who fanatically hate Yamcha.

Now that that's over, I'll repost what I said earlier, which you seem to have ignored.

And people make mistakes. It's not "out of character." People are not static, unchanging beings that never stray from their comfort zone.

He can be nervous around women and still cheat. It happens in real life all the time.

Because it is totally out of character from all we know of Yamcha.

If Yamcha's so nervous around females that he can't even date or be around them, how would he be able to handle finding, seeing, and sleeping with multiple women?

Finally, your quote does not negate the possibility of him cheating. Mine, on the other hand, while being a second-hand quote, matches up with what is said in the Cell Arc. It violates nothing, and supports what is stated.

It basically does, as I explained above.

Again, why can't people act "out of character" every now and then? I'm usually a nice guy, but if I have a bad day, I probably won't be so nice. We don't know the circumstances behind Yamcha's cheating, so you can't say it's "out of character" and expect that to end the discussion. And I never said it was multiple women.
And no, your quote does not make mine invalid. They are not mutually exclusive. Good guys can do bad things. It happens. Mistakes get made. People act "out of character." Nobody's perfect.

And honestly, I'm done here. The manga says he cheated. According to a trustworthy source, Toriyama says he cheated. Is it "out of character?" Sure, but that doesn't make it impossible.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think it's best you back down, Kamiccolo9. He won't stop until he has his way.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think it's best you back down, Kamiccolo9. He won't stop until he has his way.

I've said what I have to say. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Again, why can't people act "out of character" every now and then? I'm usually a nice guy, but if I have a bad day, I probably won't be so nice. We don't know the circumstances behind Yamcha's cheating, so you can't say it's "out of character" and expect that to end the discussion. And I never said it was multiple women.

He still wouldn't be able to handle approaching another women, dating her, then sleeping with her, if he's that bad around women.

Yamcha's already not perfect, but being unfaithful has never been shown to be one of his flaws.

And no, your quote does not make mine invalid. They are not mutually exclusive.

You haven't answered how he'd able to manage an affair with his phobia.

And honestly, I'm done here. The manga says he cheated. According to a trustworthy source, Toriyama says he cheated. Is it "out of character?" Sure, but that doesn't make it impossible.

Future Trunks says he cheated, then a few panels later we get Yamcha saying how "wouldn't it be great to settle down and get married."

We get Furuya basically saying Toriyama quickly dismissed his question(of how it was out of character it was for Yamcha) with a brief response. We also get another interview with Masako where she says she asked Toriyama about it and he said he was just trying to break them up as Bulma was the only avaiable woman for Vegeta.

[Kid Buu]

Problem with post-Namek is that Toriyama seemed bent on removing everyone's dignity. Yamcha had nothing going for him except being the only one with a girlfriend so he broke Yamcha/Bulma up and was one of the few people not married in the end.

[MediaFanGirl93]

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).

I never claimed it was all-encompassing. Different people are going to have different opinions. But in general, I do think fans overlook Blooma's personality flaws.

I notice it too. I've heard many people complain on Tumblr about how fans see her as a saint. All I'm saying that even she gets bashed, but it's not as much as the other females. I'm on your side here.

I disagree. I see a few people bash Bulma for her personality, even going as far as to say that the Evil Future Android 18 is nicer than Bulma (and Chi-Chi).

Who the fuck said that?

I also have noticed people giving Bulma some heat though it's nothing compared to what Chi-Chi or even Videl get. Seems like #18 is the only female character that avoid any character bashing.

I saw it as a comment on Youtube. I do agree that #18 is the only female character who rarely get bashed. This may be understandable, as she is the only female character that Funimation didn't fuck over and she's the least hostile female character (no offense to the people who like the other female characters. Also, I think Funimation hates the other females and Yamcha). I do notice that Chi-Chi, Videl, and Lunch aren't that well-liked by the fans either (I like them though).

Also, why don't you think Bulma is a good mother???

[RandomGuy96]

Problem with post-Namek is that Toriyama seemed bent on removing everyone's dignity. Yamcha had nothing going for him except being the only one with a girlfriend so he broke Yamcha/Bulma up and was one of the few people not married in the end.

Not everyone got robbed of their dignity in the Cell Saga... just Yamcha. Piccolo got be the hero for a while (beating up 20, driving off Cell, fighting 17 to a stalemate), Vegeta got to kill 19, beat up Semi-Cell, and help kill Cell, Trunks got to kill both Freeza and Cell (I still can't get over that), Tenshinhan at least got to hold back Semi-Cell before going back to doing what he always does, Krillin married a hot blonde and settled down, Gohan got to beat Cell, and Goku got to leave with some dignity.

But then the Buu Saga arguably grounded Vegeta's dignity into dust.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Problem with post-Namek is that Toriyama seemed bent on removing everyone's dignity. Yamcha had nothing going for him except being the only one with a girlfriend so he broke Yamcha/Bulma up and was one of the few people not married in the end.

Not everyone got robbed of their dignity in the Cell Saga... just Yamcha. Piccolo got be the hero for a while (beating up 20, driving off Cell, fighting 17 to a stalemate), Vegeta got to kill 19, beat up Semi-Cell, and help kill Cell, Trunks got to kill both Freeza and Cell (I still can't get over that), Tenshinhan at least got to hold back Semi-Cell before going back to doing what he always does, Krillin married a hot blonde and settled down, Gohan got to beat Cell, and Goku got to leave with some dignity.

But then the Buu Saga arguably grounded Vegeta's dignity into dust.

And Chiaotzu who didn't even show up, and Yajirobe.

[Kid Buu]

Also, why don't you think Bulma is a good mother???

Took her baby to where the Androids were going to attack.

Not everyone got robbed of their dignity in the Cell Saga... just Yamcha. Piccolo got be the hero for a while (beating up 20, driving off Cell, fighting 17 to a stalemate), Vegeta got to kill 19, beat up Semi-Cell, and help kill Cell, Trunks got to kill both Freeza and Cell (I still can't get over that), Tenshinhan at least got to hold back Semi-Cell before going back to doing what he always does, Krillin married a hot blonde and settled down, Gohan got to beat Cell, and Goku got to leave with some dignity.

But then the Buu Saga arguably grounded Vegeta's dignity into dust.

I meant in terms of personality. Vegeta becomes the local village idiot, helping villains instead of beating them. Gohan magically becomes pacifist in the Cell arc just to add tension for the plot. Goku, well you know this better than anyone. Krillin cares more about his boner then saving the planet.

[DBZAOTA482]

I saw it as a comment on Youtube. I do agree that #18 is the only female character who rarely get bashed. This may be understandable, as she is the only female character that Funimation didn't fuck over and she's the least hostile female character (no offense to the people who like the other female characters. Also, I think Funimation hates the other females and Yamcha). I do notice that Chi-Chi, Videl, and Lunch aren't that well-liked by the fans either (I like them though).

Also, why don't you think Bulma is a good mother???

I agree with #18 being the only one immune to FUNimation's bad scripting in the past but I don't if you can say #18 is less hostile. I mean, she shut Kuririn down near the end of the Cell Games... but then again Kuririn isn't a Saiyan so no one really cares. Also, I like Chi-Chi and Videl too. Don't care much about Lunch.

The reason I don't consider her a good mother is because outside if her extreme wealth, she seems to lack the full discipline of a good parent. I mean, she drove head first towards a dangerous spot without regards to her baby's safety just because she wanted to see Artificial Human action. She's not a bad mother either, though.

[Saiga]

Just throwing it out there, but Yamcha does mention having a girlfriend in the Cell arc. It's part of a joke, but the joke was wanting to use the wish for something material, not whether he had a girlfriend or not. He could have made that up for the sake of the joke, but it's never really looked into.

Just saying that there is evidence in the manga itself that Yamcha isn't completely incapable of being around women other than Bulma. Just look at how it didn't take long for him to get used to Bulma, it happened just from being around her for a short while. Logically, even if he still has his phobia after that point the same should happen with other girls if he spends enough time with him.

Not to mention we don't see him show any fear from girls again in the manga. He never shows his phobia around adult Chi Chi (even before he knows who she is), 18 or Videl. So if he still has it, it's clearly not going to prevent him from getting used to individuals.

[Kid Buu]

I don't even remember Yamcha interacting with adult Chichi and #18 outside of filler.

Also I don't like how Toriyama said in that interview that Yamcha was still nervous around girls when his character arc was overcoming that.