Why Was Gohan Handled So Poorly In The Cell Arc?

[SUnicron]

Yeah, I also never really got why people call Gohan a pacifist during the Cell Games. For one, he actually fights Cell for a while. After a while he realized what Goku's plan was, and probably realized that if he continued to fight, at some point he would become angry and might release his full hidden power. This is the reason he stopped fighting, because he doesn't want to release his full power, because he is afraid he would lose control. Is this pacifism? No, it's fear. (and he was right in his fear, because as a SSJ2 he did lose control (of himself), and as a consequence he got his father killed)

Now Cell gets curious and he wants to see this power. He tries to provoke Gohan, this doesn't work, so he tries with his friends. Now you see a change in Gohan's thoughts. First he was too afraid of the consequences of releasing his power, but now when Cell and the Jr's are attacking his friends, he realizes the only way to save them is by releasing his rage. (whether or not he could defeat the Cell Jrs as a SSJ1 is irrelevant, because Cell would probably step in himself)
Now the problem is he doesn't now how to release his rage. It's like crying on cue, it's difficult. He's trying to force it, but doesn't now how. Throughout the Cell Jr fight he gets angrier and angrier and more desperate, slowly filling his bucket of rage, and then the speech and ruthless death of #16 are the final drops that overflow that bucket, and he finally unleashes his power.

So yeah.. not really a pacifist in my eyes, just an emotional kid under a ton of pressure.

[dbzfan7]

I always thought Gohan just didn't like fighting to the death. He's doesn't hate fighting as he seemed to enjoy sparring with Goku and Piccolo. But when it came to killing someone he wanted no part. As an adult he takes up crime fighting. If he hated fighting..why would he do that. Also if he's playing the role of superhero, why doesn't the "Great Saiyaman" prepare for intergalactic threats by training and getting ready. Not much of a super hero when you only handle small crimes and let your dad handle the big stuff.

Gohan's motivations around fighting are all over the fucking place. It's like he has multiple personality disorder.

On the Cell Saga I just don't understand why he didn't try and help his friends when they were getting beaten...he did it before when his opponent was much stronger..and now he just flat out did nothing.

[rereboy]

This is the reason he stopped fighting, because he doesn't want to release his full power, because he is afraid he would lose control. Is this pacifism? No, it's fear. (and he was right in his fear, because as a SSJ2 he did lose control (of himself), and as a consequence he got his father killed)

If he is indeed afraid, not only does this fear appear out of nowhere, but it also a irrational fear. Gohan didn't lose any control, he just became cocky. And because he got cocky he underestimated what Cell could do, despite being much weaker than Gohan.

Conclusion? Gohan's actions and personality are incoherent with his past actions and personality (he's never been afraid or hesitated to save his friends) and were twisted so that the Cell games could have some artificial and somewhat awkward drama and tension.

[DBZAOTA482]

This is the reason he stopped fighting, because he doesn't want to release his full power, because he is afraid he would lose control. Is this pacifism? No, it's fear. (and he was right in his fear, because as a SSJ2 he did lose control (of himself), and as a consequence he got his father killed)

If he is indeed afraid, not only does this fear appear out of nowhere, but it also a irrational fear. Gohan didn't lose any control, he just became cocky. And because he got cocky he underestimated what Cell could do, despite being much weaker than Gohan.

I'd say it's more of arrogance than cockiness since he was deliberately dragging the battle out to "make Cell suffer" unlike the case with Ultimate Jackass (Ultimate Gohan). Plus Super Saiyan is known to bring out a Saiyan primitive nature given it requires one to reach an emotional breaking point. Similar thing happened to Goku when he first became Super Saiyan (it made him more aggressive whereas SSJ2 made Gohan more... sadistic).

[thatdbzguy]

If he is indeed afraid, not only does this fear appear out of nowhere, but it also a irrational fear. Gohan didn't lose any control, he just became cocky. And because he got cocky he underestimated what Cell could do, despite being much weaker than Gohan.

Conclusion? Gohan's actions and personality are incoherent with his past actions and personality (he's never been afraid or hesitated to save his friends) and were twisted so that the Cell games could have some artificial and somewhat awkward drama and tension.

How is it irrational? He didn't know he would become cocky. He didn't know what he would become.

Conclusion? Gohan's actions and personality are incoherent with his past actions and personality because he grew the fuck up. Do you honestly expect someone to act the same way at the age of 5 as they do at the age of 11 (or however old CG Gohan was)?

Was him growing up for better or for worse? That's debatable, but you obviously vouch for the latter. But even if it was for worse, that doesn't mean it's automatically out-of-character. Gohan is a growing boy. Of course he's going to make poor judgment calls from time to time, especially if he's under a lot of pressure. Could his fears and emotions have been foreshadowed more instead of coming up all of a sudden? Sure, but then again, Gohan didn't even expect to fight Cell. DBZ isn't one for deeply delving into the psyche of its characters, anyway.

[baneofdemon22]

I'm reading stuff that you guys are saying that I don't see while watching, and I shouldn't be agreeing It's like when with psychiatrists when they start making suggestions and you convince yourself of things that were never there.

I'm not saying anything negative against these debates. It's great! It's just me doing it to myself. I also don't have the best memory, so when I read or hear something I trust it and then make my decision based on others' recollections. And then when I read or see something again, I'm like, "Hey, that's not what happened. I really liked that." I just never was the biggest fan of that part of the Cell arc, because I was bored of seeing episodes of constant fighting, and I was convincing myself it was because of the reasons a lot of you been posting, because I didn't remember. With the Freeza fight, it dragged, but once the Super Saiyan form is introduced, it's so shocking and makes up for it. With Gohan turning SSJ2, the Super Saiyan thing wasn't special to be anymore, so it didn't help with the pacing for me. I actually like a lot of those things you guys are criticizing.

It's still good though, because starting from January of last year, I wen through the whole series (Starting from Dragonball) 5 times! I really love this show! Besides The Simpsons, Twilight Zone, Breaking Bad, the Bruce Timm DCAU, and South Park, I don't like re-watching shows. So I can't complain too much! I love these characters!

[Michsi]

Conclusion? Gohan's actions and personality are incoherent with his past actions and personality (he's never been afraid or hesitated to save his friends) and were twisted so that the Cell games could have some artificial and somewhat awkward drama and tension

He's never been sent on the battlefield to fight against the biggest threat they ever faced, alone, by his own father who was more concerned about having a fair fight than his son's safety, either. Different scenarios, different situations, different reactions.
I agree that this sort of tension may seem out of place for a story where the author never cared to add that much depth to it but that doesn't mean that it can't make sense.

[Kid Buu]

Gohan's motivations around fighting are all over the fucking place. It's like he has multiple personality disorder.

Because Toriyama. Man seems to forget a lot of things, including characterization.

[dbzfan7]

Gohan's motivations around fighting are all over the fucking place. It's like he has multiple personality disorder.

Because Toriyama. Man seems to forget a lot of things, including characterization.

You have I hate it in the beginning, then I must fight for my friends, then the "I didn't train all this time to do nothing", then the Cell puss out even though he should know Cell is as evil as Freeza and would never listen, then the person who enjoyed fighting with Goten and even got a little pissed when Dabura said everyone should fight him at once. Seriously..if he hates fighting..why would he care about fighting Dabura by himself or not just let Goku and Vegeta do all the fighting.

[SUnicron]

This is the reason he stopped fighting, because he doesn't want to release his full power, because he is afraid he would lose control. Is this pacifism? No, it's fear. (and he was right in his fear, because as a SSJ2 he did lose control (of himself), and as a consequence he got his father killed)

If he is indeed afraid, not only does this fear appear out of nowhere, but it also a irrational fear. Gohan didn't lose any control, he just became cocky. And because he got cocky he underestimated what Cell could do, despite being much weaker than Gohan.

I would say that is losing control. Cocky and arrogant is the complete opposite of who Gohan is, he lost control of himself, he got carried away.

I'm reading stuff that you guys are saying that I don't see while watching, and I shouldn't be agreeing It's like when with psychiatrists when they start making suggestions and you convince yourself of things that were never there.

I've read the manga Cell vs Gohan parts dozens of times last year (*cough*for this*cough*), but I grabbed it again to see how much of my post was my interpretation and how much is actually said. The second part of my post (about wanting but failing to unleash his power) is pretty much exactly what Gohan says and thinks.

The first part about being afraid of the consequences I have to admit is definitely more my interpretation, but in the manga the "I don't want to fight you anymore" scene is only like 2 pages, so he doesn't really explain himself. He does say that he doesn't enjoy fighting like Goku, and he doesn't want to kill, and then he explains his hidden power. The fear interpretation I get from more from the #16 speech about nature and also from what Goku said to him in the final Kamehameha battle, "don't worry about the earth", so even there Gohan was holding back because he didn't want to harm the earth.

[Cold Skin]

why would he care about fighting Dabura by himself or not just let Goku and Vegeta do all the fighting.

There's no clear statement of course, but ever since I was a little kid, I always felt this was to make his father - who is only back for one day to see what his son has become - proud. To Goku and Vegeta, fighting is like having a party, and Gohan is enthusiastic about participating to that with his father for one exceptionnal day (when he was initially not supposed to ever see him again in his lifetime). Training for fights is what they had in common, what they spent years doing together. The way he yells "no way, I want to fight you on my own, it's my turn" taking the pose really feels like a touching, forced way to show "look Dad, I'm like you back then, wanting a one-on-one fight like a true legacy of yours". It's over-the-top in a good way, he's trying to attract more attention than needed to show off in front of his Dad to please him as he is here for just one day.

Before that fight, when preparing for the new tournament, the training feels like an hommage he gives to his deceased father and the family's legacy, training his little brother like his father trained him years ago - as a kid, I remember I truly felt that this was "like good old times" and "a family thing being revived after years". But most of all, it's the excitement of showing his father what he can do as a warrior that makes him happy and smily about it. After all those years forgetting about fights, he first sees the Tenkaichi Budokai as an obligation, but when he learns his father will be back, he joyfully starts to train for him and sees the tournament as an opportunity instead of something forced onto him. Fighting together, against each other in friendly matches or side by side against a same foe.

Once he gets back with his potential extended, he feels ready to be in Goku's shoes this time (unlike when he was younger and felt he still needed his father, saying so himself), hence his much more confident behavior. But it would later be shown that Goku is definately unique and it's not that easy to fill his shoes, and Gohan realizes this and seems more down to Earth again (he can even be seen in the One Piece x Toriko x Dragon Ball episode reflecting on how directly following his father's footsteps - with the direct road - is not a good idea and that he knows he has to be smarter and try another, less direct road to possibly beat him).

Because he mostly fights for his father in most of the Boo arc and his heart is not truly set to it, he encounters the same problem he had seven years ago: he is unable to truly hate his enemies and be mad enough to reveal his potential, which he is perfectly aware of. Luckily, the Ancestral Kaio Shin is here to bypass that problem once and for all and give him an awesome power accessible at anytime regardless of his emotions, which is the ultimate evolution Gohan needed given his difficulties.

[baneofdemon22]

I'm reading stuff that you guys are saying that I don't see while watching, and I shouldn't be agreeing It's like when with psychiatrists when they start making suggestions and you convince yourself of things that were never there.

I've read the manga Cell vs Gohan parts dozens of times last year (*cough*for this*cough*), but I grabbed it again to see how much of my post was my interpretation and how much is actually said. The second part of my post (about wanting but failing to unleash his power) is pretty much exactly what Gohan says and thinks.[/quote]

So would you recommend the manga? If you read it that many times, it must be pretty darn good! I read all of "Dragonball", but checked out after finishing the Saiyan saga, because I enjoyed the show much better.

[rereboy]

How is it irrational?

Its irrational because Gohan has never become anything other than enraged with his boosts, he has never hurt anyone he didn't want to hurt with his boosts, and he has never done anything that he didn't want to do during his boosts.

So, why he is suddenly afraid? And of what? He has nothing to base his fear on... Even if he looks at the other characters all he can find is examples of people becoming excessively confident or cocky whenever they have a overwhelming power. And why should he be afraid of that when his friends and family are about to get killed?!

He's never been sent on the battlefield to fight against the biggest threat they ever faced, alone, by his own father who was more concerned about having a fair fight than his son's safety, either. Different scenarios, different situations, different reactions.
I agree that this sort of tension may seem out of place for a story where the author never cared to add that much depth to it but that doesn't mean that it can't make sense.

I don't mind that he is nervous and lacks confidence and the like. That seems in character.

But being afraid of his power? A totally half-assed fight agaisnt Cell mainly made of dodging and not trying to hit back? Just watching his friends and family being killed? Hmmm, doesn't seem right to me.

I would say that is losing control. Cocky and arrogant is the complete opposite of who Gohan is, he lost control of himself, he got carried away.

I disagree. By definition, if he had lost control of himself, he would be doing stuff beyond his control. He is ALWAYS in perfect control of himself. But he just feels so superior to Cell that he underestimates him. He makes an error of judgment due to his overconfidence in his new power, that's all.

Btw, if Cell didn't have a way to self-destruct that prevented anyone from attacking him while he was doing it, Gohan's cockiness wouldn't have any consequences. And no one knew that Cell had such a thing. So, its not even an error of judgment that big. Compared to Vegeta letting Cell absorb #18 that's nothing, just a tiny error.

[ABED]

He flat out yelled at his mother, telling her he wanted to go to Namek to help his friends.

He didn't know that Freeza & Vegeta or any other enemy would be there though. All they knew was that there are about a hundred peaceful Namekians. No fighting was in the plans.

Do you think Gohan would've wanted to go more or less after hearing there were people going after the DBs? Not that this changes matters, he asserted his own opinion despite what someone else wanted from him, Chichi of all people.

It doesn't matter if Gohan likes to fight or not, he will fight to protect people he loves.

[Kid Buu]

If he doesn't want to fight, why not just tell Goku and Piccolo that instead of training with them for so long?

[rereboy]

If he doesn't want to fight, why not just tell Goku and Piccolo that instead of training with them for so long?

He wants to fight but seems unwilling or hesitant to fight seriously. Just the perfect scenario for creating some tension and drama around Gohan (even though it appears out of nowhere).

[ABED]

I would've believed it more if Gohan was reticent to fight due to a lack of confidence. That feels more in character, but what transpired didn't.

[rereboy]

I would've believed it more if Gohan was reticent to fight due to a lack of confidence. That feels more in character, but what transpired didn't.

Exactly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It doesn't matter if Gohan likes to fight or not, he will fight to protect people he loves.

Yes, but he doesn't want to kill if there is no reason to do so by the time of the Cell Games. He killed a soldier from Freeza and didn't care, but he was 5 years old.

In the Cell Games, he was 11, and more mature than before. What he was asked to do wasn't just to fight, it was to kill Cell. Gohan knew that if he had fought, he would eventually get angry and kill Cell for sure. He tried to convince Cell that their fight was pointless, because he would eventually win for sure. So, he tried to avoid fighting and solve it through words, because he didn't like fighting, and didn't want to kill anyone.

[ABED]

It doesn't matter if Gohan likes to fight or not, he will fight to protect people he loves.

Yes, but he doesn't want to kill if there is no reason to do so by the time of the Cell Games. He killed a soldier from Freeza and didn't care, but he was 5 years old.

In the Cell Games, he was 11, and more mature than before. What he was asked to do wasn't just to fight, it was to kill Cell. Gohan knew that if he had fought, he would eventually get angry and kill Cell for sure. He tried to convince Cell that their fight was pointless, because he would eventually win for sure. So, he tried to avoid fighting and solve it through words, because he didn't like fighting, and didn't want to kill anyone.

Not characterization that we ever saw. We didn't see him develop a distaste for killing (even in self defense). All we've ever seen is Gohan fight to protect people he cares about and exploding in anger when they are threatened.