Strengtha-palooza

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Herms
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Strengtha-palooza

Post by Herms » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:43 am

OK, so I already screwed up.

As you may dimly recall, a little while back I declared my intention to spend the rest of the year updating and expanding upon the Strength Checker so that it incorporates stuff from the anime, movies, guidebooks, and any other thing I feel like throwing in. Several nice people volunteered to help with this, but I got caught up with one thing or another, never got back to anybody, and now it's the start of February, my arbitrary deadline for beginning this project. But instead of pushing the start back, I figured I might as well just put up some kind of rough draft that I can improve on later. Thinking it over, I probably won't be able to finish this project within the year, but I do intend to post something new every Monday, so I can just chip away at it.

Anyways, today we begin at the beginning, with an overview of the "search for the dragon balls" story arc and...kinda the first half of the "training" mini-story arc. Basically, everything up until when Goku and Kuririn start getting really strong through their training. Then next time I'll take a look at their "post-training" strength and the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. Actually, before moving on to that, I'll probably cover DB movies 1 and 2.

This idea here is to create something that sums up all the stuff said in the Strength Checker in a hopefully marginally less tedious to read format, and adds wordless "feats", fight results, and stuff from outside the manga. Commentary in brackets.

[PROG 1.1: SEARCH FOR THE DRAGON BALLS AND KAME-SENNIN'S TRAINING]

Strength Checker
I: Search for the Dragonballs; Chapters 1-23
II: Kame-sennin’s Training; Chapters 24-32
Battle List (taken from Daizenshuu 2
Strength Digest

Chi-Chi
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
Gyumao
--Profile--
Kame-sennin
--Profile--
Kuririn
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
Lunch
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
Oolong
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
Son Gohan
--Profile--
Son Goku
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
Yamcha
--Battle Record--
--Profile--
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Saiga » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:11 am

It's looking good so far, but I have some questions. Do you plan to completely replace the Strength Checker with this format, doing away with direct quotes, or is this meant to complement the quotes which you will be adding to? Because I feel that having both would give users the most information for forming their own opinion on stuff.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Herms » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:24 am

Saiga wrote:Do you plan to completely replace the Strength Checker with this format, doing away with direct quotes, or is this meant to complement the quotes which you will be adding to? Because I feel that having both would give users the most information for forming their own opinion on stuff.
It's something to go along with the Strength Checker. Actually, I want to have copies of the relevant sections of the Strength Checker right there along with this new format (which I'm calling "Strength Digest", for some reason). I've gone back and edited the first post accordingly.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:29 am

Where's Puar's paragraph? If Oolong gets once then I'd give one to Puar, not to mention Puar beat Oolong in a fight.

By the way, Herms, I sent you a private message on here a while back. I know you're busy in all, but I had a curious question that I wanted to ask you.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Saiga » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:42 am

Herms wrote:
Saiga wrote:Do you plan to completely replace the Strength Checker with this format, doing away with direct quotes, or is this meant to complement the quotes which you will be adding to? Because I feel that having both would give users the most information for forming their own opinion on stuff.
It's something to go along with the Strength Checker. Actually, I want to have copies of the relevant sections of the Strength Checker right there along with this new format (which I'm calling "Strength Digest", for some reason). I've gone back and edited the first post accordingly.
That's pretty cool. Will there be sections in the Strength Checker for anime/movie/guidebooks quotes?
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:20 am

Question on the battle records and battle lists: will anime-exclusive fights be counted in that? Or will the anime only scenes have their own separate 'Strength Checker', entirely distinct from the manga one? I ask because you did say that you wanted to include stuff "from outside the manga" in the Strength Checker now.

Also, "( chapter 8 )" displays as "(chapter 8)". Thought that was amusing to note.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:06 pm

Everyone always makes fun of Yamcha, but this reminds us that he was the first one to ever defeat Goku in the manga. Granted, Goku was weakened from hunger... but still.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:08 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Everyone always makes fun of Yamcha, but this reminds us that he was the first one to ever defeat Goku in the manga. Granted, Goku was weakened from hunger... but still.
A lot of people consider that one a draw, but then again Yamcha also beat him again when he turned Oozaru so Yamcha still retains the title.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:16 pm

That wasn't Yamcha; it was a Puar/Yamcha tag team. That's like claiming Vegeta beat Perfect Cell.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:20 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Everyone always makes fun of Yamcha, but this reminds us that he was the first one to ever defeat Goku in the manga. Granted, Goku was weakened from hunger... but still.
A lot of people consider that one a draw, but then again Yamcha also beat him again when he turned Oozaru so Yamcha still retains the title.
I don't know why people consider that to be a fight. To me, a fight requires an actual, conscious decision on behalf of both parties. Yamcha and Puar "beating" Oozaru Goku would be like me shooting a rabid lion. I wouldn't be winning a fight; I'd be putting down a dangerous animal.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Saiga » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:59 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Everyone always makes fun of Yamcha, but this reminds us that he was the first one to ever defeat Goku in the manga. Granted, Goku was weakened from hunger... but still.
I honestly don't understand why people think Yamcha won that fight. The most he did was knock him away, but Goku returned and did the exact same thing to Yamcha. Then the fight was interrupted because Yamcha legged it upon Bulma waking up.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:31 pm

Well if Kuririn Vs saber-tooth tiger is counted then Oozaru Goku should be too.
RandomGuy96 wrote:That wasn't Yamcha; it was a Puar/Yamcha tag team. That's like claiming Vegeta beat Perfect Cell.
You mean when Cell pretended to be beat by the Final Flash and then just kicked Vegeta's ass? I don't get the comparison at all.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:35 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:That wasn't Yamcha; it was a Puar/Yamcha tag team. That's like claiming Vegeta beat Perfect Cell.
You mean when Cell pretended to be beat by the Final Flash and then just kicked Vegeta's ass? I don't get the comparison at all.
No, I mean when Vegeta briefly distracted/stunned Cell with a blast, letting Gohan destroy him. Yamcha here stunned/weakened Oozaru Goku by grabbing his tail, letting Puar cut it off.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:39 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote: No, I mean when Vegeta briefly distracted/stunned Cell with, letting Gohan destroy him. Yamcha here stunned/weakened Oozaru Goku by grabbing his tail, letting Puar cut it off.
Oh right, my bad.

I guess interference isn't counted, otherwise Piccolo should count for Goku Vs. Freeza. Yamcha and Puar entered the battle together and concluded it together. By the way, a lot of people do consider the final Cell Games battle to be a handicap match - Goku/Gohan Vs. Cell.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:41 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote: No, I mean when Vegeta briefly distracted/stunned Cell with, letting Gohan destroy him. Yamcha here stunned/weakened Oozaru Goku by grabbing his tail, letting Puar cut it off.
Oh right, my bad.

I guess interference isn't counted, otherwise Piccolo should count for Goku Vs. Freeza. Yamcha and Puar entered the battle together and concluded it together. By the way, a lot of people do consider the final Cell Games battle to be a handicap match - Goku/Gohan Vs. Cell.
Why? Goku isn't actually there in the finale, and Cell eats a senzu before fighting Gohan, so you can't even say fighting Goku weakened him.

Are they referring to Goku teleporting Cell away?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:43 pm

I suppose because some people actually think Goku was there in spirit. This is made worse by some of the games that refer to it as "Father-Son Kamehameha" >_>
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:47 pm

Kid Buu wrote:I suppose because some people actually think Goku was there in spirit. This is made worse by some of the games that refer to it as "Father-Son Kamehameha" >_>
Doesn't the Danzenshuu confirm that isn't the case?

Oh, and Herms, what's up there so far looks really, really good, but I have another question: will the "Strength Digest" be placed in spoiler tags in the future, like the quotes and battles? It's a minor thing, but I think it looks neater that way. Also, how will certain 'fights' be labeled? For example, does SS Goku teleporting Semi-Perfect Cell off world and then being blown up by him count as a battle? Does Piccolo being beaten up by base Freeza count as a whole separate battle than Goku vs Freeza? Is Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu vs Nappa a different battle than Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin vs Nappa? What about Goku vs Vegeta and the intervention of Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:54 pm

Well, here is how the Daizenshuu listed the battles. Can't find Herms list on here. He used to have one.
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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:11 am

I notice that the list doesn't count off-screen battles, such as Tambourine vs Krillin. It also doesn't count Kami finger-flicking Goku. And it counts Goku vs Raditz as a fight but not Krillin vs Raditz? Where's the logic in that? It also doesn't count Gohan's participation in the Raditz fight, Krillin and Gohan's intervention in the Recoome fight, Vegeta's intervention in the Guldo fight...
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Strengtha-palooza

Post by Kid Buu » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:18 am

Why is Tenshinhan/Chaotzu's battle with Nappa segregate from Piccolo/Gohan/Kuririn? From what I remember Piccolo and Krillin jumped in the battle while Tenshinhan was still fighting, and their plan just got fucked up by Gohan pussying out.

Or is it because of the 3 hour wait?

Oh and Vegeta/Goku beat Ginyu, not Gohan/Krillin.
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