Unpopular DB opinions

[TheGmGoken]

That's your opinion. I know some "hardcore" or "intelligent" DBZ fans who's favorite arc is Cyborg-Cell Arc. It's your opinion. Cell Arc to me was a good change of pace. We had 6 great arc(s) in a row. I think Cell arc is a great pace change to cool the fans down. Then Boo Arc brings them back up again with one final epic-ness. So Cyborg-CellArc does make a GREAT story. Just in a different way.

So the Cyborg arc makes a great story because it's a terrible story compared to previous arcs, and that just serves as an excuse for fans to "cool down"?

I NEVER said the Cyborg-Cell Arc was terrible. I said that it's slows the pace down as we had 6 great arcs in a row. So Cyborg-Cell Arc being not as good makes the story from different point of view that's NOT the plot. From a plot point of view. I don't think Cyborg-Cell Arc was BAD. It was decent...maybe good IMHO. It's not an excuse for the fans to cool down. I'm saying that it's not BAD. Please tell me when I said it was a "excuse" or a "terrible arc". Cause I didn't. I like the Cell-Cyborg Arc. Just not as much.

[baneofdemon22]

I thought Dragonball was much funnier than Z, and while the Boo arc is my favorite, I didn't find a lot of the comedy funny. I didn't enjoy the Gotenks and Super Boo stuff, but loved a lot of the humor in the beginning, but it was not nearly as funny as Dragonball. I really like every arc of Dragonball, but I like the Dragonball Z portion more if I have to choose. I love it all, but Dragonball Z had more layers of enjoyment to me. I think that's why there's so many debates on here about Z. I think the Cell arc is good, even if it's my least favorite of Z. I disagree with people's arguments for it being bad.

[thatdbzguy]

There's plenty of memorable lines in DBZ. Cell has a motivation, simple, but still a motivation. Have you read Twilight or seen the films? I've had people tell me the stories, and that put me off ever wanting to see or read them. Who's the Mary Sue?

I read the books a long time ago, back when everyone and their grandma were talking about it. Sure, they're terrible, but not much more-so than the Cyborg arc.

Future Trunks is the Mary Sue.

A robot that likes nature is hardly bland, and Trunks is a great character.

16 had no personality outside of liking nature, and even then, that kind of personality is boring and not exactly ground-breaking. And Mary Sues never make great characters.

I'm begging you to say one good thing about the show, and no back handed compliments are allowed.

There's not a single thing I think DBZ did right, so no, I can't say even one good thing about it.

[TheGmGoken]

There's not a single thing I think DBZ did right, so no, I can't say even one good thing about it.

But your name.....is...."THATDBZGUY". Why name yourself after something you dislike. Doesn't make sense to me. You don't like Z music? You're telling the at LEAST the new BGMs wasn't done right? How about Vegeta's development? Piccolo turning Good?

[ABED]

There's plenty of memorable lines in DBZ. Cell has a motivation, simple, but still a motivation. Have you read Twilight or seen the films? I've had people tell me the stories, and that put me off ever wanting to see or read them. Who's the Mary Sue?

I read the books a long time ago, back when everyone and their grandma were talking about it. Sure, they're terrible, but not much more-so than the Cyborg arc.

Future Trunks is the Mary Sue.

A robot that likes nature is hardly bland, and Trunks is a great character.

16 had no personality outside of liking nature, and even then, that kind of personality is boring and not exactly ground-breaking. And Mary Sues never make great characters.

I'm begging you to say one good thing about the show, and no back handed compliments are allowed.

There's not a single thing I think DBZ did right, so no, I can't say even one good thing about it.

Liking nature is a personality, especially in conjunction with how we are expecting him to behave. Then he shows no interest in fighting anyone besides Goku, except when Cell arrives. That's a very interesting character. Who gives a damn if it's groundbreaking, very few characters are. Not sure how Trunks is a Mary Sue. He's not idealized, and not a stand in for the author.

You can't even say good things about the first series, you are always negative. You would much rather bitch about the series you don't like than talk about the series you claim to enjoy.

[thatdbzguy]

You would much rather bitch about the series you don't like than talk about the series you claim to enjoy.

Welcome to the Dragon Ball fandom.

But your name.....is...."THATDBZGUY". Why name yourself after something you dislike. Doesn't make sense to me. You don't like Z music? You're telling the at LEAST the new BGMs wasn't done right? How about Vegeta's development? Piccolo turning Good?

Named myself that because I couldn't think of anything else. The music is nothing special, Vegeta's development was nothing special, and Piccolo turning good was too rushed.

[Gyt Kaliba]

You would much rather bitch about the series you don't like than talk about the series you claim to enjoy.

Welcome to the Dragon Ball fandom.

The Dragon Ball fandom may be extremely volatile, and full of people who can't just seem to agree to disagree...but even the most heated arguments tend to come from the fact that two people seem to like different aspects of something, or one version over another, or something. It's coming from their 'likes'. All you're bringing to the table, ever, though is dislike, and it's seriously getting old. Even your love for the original DB doesn't seem to be much more than fodder for your supposed hatred of Z really, since any compliment you pay DB seems to be 'yeah DBZ IS GODAWFUL but DB's not' rather than straight praise of it.

Seriously, enough is enough. It's mind-numbing to follow.

[TheGmGoken]

But your name.....is...."THATDBZGUY". Why name yourself after something you dislike. Doesn't make sense to me. You don't like Z music? You're telling the at LEAST the new BGMs wasn't done right? How about Vegeta's development? Piccolo turning Good?

Named myself that because I couldn't think of anything else. The music is nothing special, Vegeta's development was nothing special, and Piccolo turning good was too rushed.

You could just remove the Z. Thedbguy. Gathering Energy for the GenkiDama and Day of Destiny ~ Spirit vs. Spirit ~ isn't nothing special? Vegeta development is nothing special? Really!? Going from a evil cocky prince who could't give a damn if his son died to a loving father who will do ANYTHING(Such as doing worst poses than Ginyu Force) to save Earth is nothing special? Piccolo turning good was well paced. Gohan is more innocent than Goku and is just a kid. Piccolo finally got a friend who LIKES him. So he died for him. How is that rushed? Would you prefer if Piccolo and Gohan have some drama scenes for 2 arcs?

[baneofdemon22]

I never had a problem with the Goku "praising" (I like that word better). I never even thought of it. If anything, I demand more praising! I liked the Androids' personalities. I thought it was interesting for them to be hyped up to be so powerful, and then they, as young people do, would rather just fool around, and procrastinate. I loved the little scene where 18 complains at 17's off road driving and spoils his fun, by blasting the path clean.

[RandomGuy96]

. Random. You're a great friend and you keep proving we're opposites in DB. Guess oppsite attracts. Boo Arc is funnier? I found Bulma no balls scene funnier than everything in the Boo Arc not relating Gohan's high-school adventures. Goku's "Dick sucking" happen in every arc to be honest. Prime example BoG. Just saying. But let's not turn this thread to a DB vs DBZ debate. Dragonball Z had way more "I STOMP CAUSE MY KI IS BIGGER AHAHAHHA". Last time I check Goku had a even battle with Roshi and Roshi clearly had bigger power. The rivalries in Z was one-sided as well. Goku and Vegeta barely had screen time together unless it was Vegeta being mad at Kakarot. It wasn't until Boo Arc to which their "Rivalry" matter.

That one seemed a bit too childish for me. In fact, a lot of Toriyama's humor is too childish. So is the Buu arc's, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much there.

I found the stuff after high school to be the funniest. All of the Buus are just great and I love their antics. I also like most of the filler with them.

BoG isn't an arc. Anyway, I just said that Goku got his dick sucked there because it's more blatant than it is in Z. In Z, he's frequently surpassed in usefulness and power by side characters, and no one wanks him quite as much. The few times where itlooks like it's happening, he screws up and everyone else gets a moment to shine when they rescue him.

Err... no it didn't. It had way more even fights or fights where the weaker fighter wins than DB did.

Roshi would've stomped Goku easily if not for several ass-pulls.

Like I said, I don't care about rivalries. But at least in Z, the rivals actually rival each other.

Wrong. Ten was praised highly after Goku's fight. He was the 2nd most important character in Piccolo Sr. Arc. Everyone counted on HIM and Goku. That's not garbage. Krillin was ALWAYS there to support and then even true in Z. So I don't know where you get these ideas from. Only one that became..."Garbage"(Ignoring all jokes) was Yamcha because he was a gag character.

No, not wrong. Yamcha and Krillin were both trash to Goku when they were first encountered. Tenshinhan barley won on a technicality, but like I said he's useless immediately after that. He can't even stand up to Piccolo's fat minion that Goku proceeds to one-shot.

How is he the second most important character there? He's completely useless and helpless against the villain. Hell, Piccolo outright tells him that he's so worthless that even if he teamed up with everyone else and attacked while Piccolo was already half-dead, Piccolo would still kick all their asses. And they agreed.

This. The idea that the characters have to be at the forefront of strength to be important at all or worthwhile as a character is one that I just don't get.

I'm talking about this in the context of their rivalries. If one rival is always losing, always being roflstomped and shat upon, and always going on about how the other guy is better than them, then it's a bad rivalry. Hell, Krillin didn't even get to force a draw with Goku on his first encounter like Ten and Yamcha did, even if "Worf Had The Flu" was in effect in those situations.

Do we have to be so course? Besides, he's the main character, of course he's going to be lauded.

I don't give a shit, and honestly I'm getting tired of you going "WELL HE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER!" every time I bring up ANYTHING about Goku, especially when he isn't actually the main character post-Raditz.

Yea. Plus Random acting as if it only happen in Dragonball. This happen in every damn arc in Dragonball Z + the movies. It's rare that the Main character doesn't get the most praise from the cast. Even if the main character is a bad guy. The heroes will praise him to death but wish he was on the good side.

I don't like it any better there, but it happens less and isn't as severe. The Baba arc is probably the series' most severe example of Goku wank.

"Yamcha and Krillin were effortlessly defeated by Baba's warriors... OMG BUT HERE COMES GOKU AND HE ONE-SHOTTED THE GUY WHO COULD EASILY DEFEAT THOSE TWO AND NOW HE'S BEATING UP A GUY EVEN STRONGER THAN THAT! OH NO HE'S USING HIS ULTIMATE ATTACK- LOL JK IT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE GOKU IS SO PURE AND PERFECT! EVERYONE START TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT GOKU IS!".

I highly disagree but I respect your opinion. Just can't see how someone would say that.

How the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc?

[TheGmGoken]

BoG isn't an arc. Anyway, I just said that Goku got his dick sucked there because it's more blatant than it is in Z. In Z, he's frequently surpassed in usefulness and power by side characters, and no one wanks him quite as much. The few times where itlooks like it's happening, he screws up and everyone else gets a moment to shine when they rescue him.

Who said BoG was an arc. I said ALL arc have Goku praise and BoG is a prime example of it being in Z. Goku is ALWAYS praise no matter how weak or strong is was.
Saiyan Arc - We need Goku!
Freeza Arc - WE NEED GOKU!
Cyborg Arc - Almost every Trunks dialog. Then once Goku is healed. Everyone is like THE WORLD IS SAVED!
Boo Arc - Everyone fails as a hero. But everyone wants Goku to be the hero.

If anything it was WORST in Z. As at least in DB he was the strongest. In DBZ he was not the strongest and yet still was talked as if he was. It's called BEING THE MAIN CHARACTER

Err... no it didn't. It had way more even fights or fights where the weaker fighter wins than DB did.

Oh really? Name one fight in Z that the weaker person one. DBZ has just as much if not LESS equal fights than DB. I can only name 3 equal fights from the whole series. I can name plenty from DB.

Roshi would've stomped Goku easily if not for several ass-pulls.

Only ass pull was Bulma waking Goku up. Everything else was a clean victory and Goku battle smarts.

Like I said, I don't care about rivalries. But at least in Z, the rivals actually rival each other.

Ten didn't rival Goku? Piccolo didn't rival Goku? There is only ONE rivalry in Z. That's Goku vs Vegeta. Which is one sided.

No, not wrong. Yamcha and Krillin were both trash to Goku when they were first encountered. Tenshinhan barley won on a technicality, but like I said he's useless immediately after that. He can't even stand up to Piccolo's fat minion that Goku proceeds to one-shot.

Krillin was smarter than Goku and beat him. That's not trash. Krillin push the same mountain as Goku. Krillin then trained and became a great supporter. Yamcha always get gagged out. Ten wasn't useless. He manage to learn the Mafuba, Was praised to be equal to Goku, Force Goku to remove the weights, and even held back Cell. THAT's FAR FROM USELESS.

How is he the second most important character there? He's completely useless and helpless against the villain. Hell, Piccolo outright tells him that he's so worthless that even if he teamed up with everyone else and attacked while Piccolo was already half-dead, Piccolo would still kick all their asses. And they agreed.

I mean on the heroes side. He's praised as the only one who can fight Piccolo along side of Goku. That's makes him important. He learns the Mafuba. Ok...a villain tells him he's worthless. I'm guess I'm wrong. Cause a villain is making a hero seem weak. I guess the villain suppose to say yea this good guy can beat me.

I'm talking about this in the context of their rivalries. If one rival is always losing, always being roflstomped and shat upon, and always going on about how the other guy is better than them, then it's a bad rivalry. Hell, Krillin didn't even get to force a draw with Goku on his first encounter like Ten and Yamcha did, even if "Worf Had The Flu" was in effect in those situations.

Krillin beat Goku in the search of the rock. Using his brain. That's smart.

I don't give a shit, and honestly I'm getting tired of you going "WELL HE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER!" every time I bring up ANYTHING about Goku, especially when he isn't actually the main character post-Raditz.

Goku is the main character post Raditz. He just isn't in the spotlight as often due to Toriyama's style of writing(Y'all should know what I'm about to say. Goku get taken out. Come back with BIG power. Saves the world). He just shares the main character spot with his son Gohan.

I don't like it any better there, but it happens less and isn't as severe. The Baba arc is probably the series' most severe example of Goku wank.

It happen WORST in Z and IMHO more severe. In Z the whole cast breaks down if Goku isn't there. I counter the Baba Arc with BoG and Freeza Arc(My favorite arc)

How the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc?

I didn't say it was worst. I said Baba Arc=Cell Arc.

[RandomGuy96]

Who said BoG was an arc. I said ALL arc have Goku praise and BoG is a prime example of it being in Z. Goku is ALWAYS praise no matter how weak or strong is was.
Saiyan Arc - We need Goku!
Freeza Arc - WE NEED GOKU!
Cyborg Arc - Almost every Trunks dialog. Then once Goku is healed. Everyone is like THE WORLD IS SAVED!
Boo Arc - Everyone fails as a hero. But everyone wants Goku to be the hero.

If anything it was WORST in Z. As at least in DB he was the strongest. In DBZ he was not the strongest and yet still was talked as if he was. It's called BEING THE MAIN CHARACTER

The difference there is that, in each of those arcs, Goku screws up and has to be saved by everyone else. DB would just play the whole thing straight as an arrow.

Oh really? Name one fight in Z that the weaker person one. DBZ has just as much if not LESS equal fights than DB. I can only name 3 equal fights from the whole series. I can name plenty from DB.

Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz? You know, the very first fight of the series? I can name more if you'd like.

Only 3? Goku vs Vegeta, Goku vs Freeza, 17 vs Piccolo, Cell vs 16, Goku vs Cell... there are plenty here. Those are only a few examples.

Only ass pull was Bulma waking Goku up. Everything else was a clean victory and Goku battle smarts.

Oozaru?

Ten didn't rival Goku? Piccolo didn't rival Goku? There is only ONE rivalry in Z. That's Goku vs Vegeta. Which is one sided.

He rivaled him (barley) for all of one fight, then he was one-shot fodder for the rest of the series. In Z, Piccolo and Vegeta keep up with and surpass Goku at various occasions.

Piccolo wasn't really Goku's rival. He was a standard mad cackling super villain, then Raditz came. You can say he was a rival after that, I guess.

Krillin was smarter than Goku and beat him. That's not trash. Krillin push the same mountain as Goku. Krillin then trained and became a great supporter. Yamcha always get gagged out. Ten wasn't useless. He manage to learn the Mafuba, Was praised to be equal to Goku, Force Goku to remove the weights, and even held back Cell. THAT's FAR FROM USELESS.

Krillin beat Goku in the search of the rock. Using his brain. That's smart.

Krillin never beat Goku in a fight.

He learned the Mafuba but couldn't use it because Piccolo's fat minion that was one-shot fodder to Goku was able to kick his ass.

Ooooh, he forced Goku to use more power, then got easily roflstomped. How useful. The only somewhat worthwhile things he did were in the post-Raditz portions.

I mean on the heroes side. He's praised as the only one who can fight Piccolo along side of Goku. That's makes him important. He learns the Mafuba. Ok...a villain tells him he's worthless. I'm guess I'm wrong. Cause a villain is making a hero seem weak. I guess the villain suppose to say yea this good guy can beat me.

Was he? If so, that's total BS, because he was never any match for Piccolo. King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr both mocked him for being so worthless to them. KP didn't even bother to one-shot him, instead spitting up another creature so he doesn't have to dirty his hands on such a weakling, while Piccolo Jr outright told him that even if he had ten other guys with him and Jr was half dead, it wouldn't matter, because he sucks so much compared to Piccolo.

Goku is the main character post Raditz. He just isn't in the spotlight as often due to Toriyama's style of writing(Y'all should know what I'm about to say. Goku get taken out. Come back with BIG power. Saves the world). He just shares the main character spot with his son Gohan.

Gohan gets all the development and screen time and is involved in the defeat of every major villain. Same with Vegeta (except when he was the major villain). How is Goku more the main character than they are? He's barley in the post-Raditz portions.

It happen WORST in Z and IMHO more severe. In Z the whole cast breaks down if Goku isn't there. I counter the Baba Arc with BoG and Freeza Arc(My favorite arc)

Goku roflstomped his way through the Baba arc. He actually needed some help when he screwed up in the Freeza arc, and was temporarily surpassed there by Piccolo and Vegeta.

I didn't say it was worst. I said Baba Arc=Cell Arc.

You said you didn't see how anyone could say that the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc.

[baneofdemon22]

I didn't like when Goku got a ring out, but had Kinto-un and his helicopter tail to save him in the tournament.

[ABED]

The difference there is that, in each of those arcs, Goku screws up and has to be saved by everyone else. DB would just play the whole thing straight as an arrow.

How did Goku mess up in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs?

What is with your hatred of Goku?

Gohan gets all the development and screen time and is involved in the defeat of every major villain. Same with Vegeta (except when he was the major villain). How is Goku more the main character than they are? He's barley in the post-Raditz portions.

He's in every single episode, and is the character everyone is waiting for, but sure, he's a secondary character. Goku learns he's an alien and becomes the legendary pinnacle of his race after 1000 years (Super Saiyan). Gohan needed more development, he's a brand new character. Goku didn't need the development as much, but that doesn't preclude him from being a main character.

[TheDoc]

The Uranai Baba arc doesn't exist, in my opinion. It is a part of the Red Ribbon arc. The driving theme of the Red Ribbon arc is searching for the Dragon Balls, and the story is only completed when all of the dragon balls are collected. A better name for that arc would be "Second search for the Dragon Balls", but calling it that would be confusing to a lot of people, so i generally stick to Red Ribbon arc. What i am trying to say is that the portion of the story that happens in Uranai Baba's castle isn't really a story arc. Dragon Ball only really has 10 story arcs. 14, if you count GT. I blame that on Funimation's saga division. Seriously, Ginyu saga? It's only a handful of episodes!

As for unpopular opinions, i generally regard the Cell arc as the weakest. I actually like movie 11. I don't hate GT Pan. I don't hate GT Goku. And i think the Super Saiyan God design really nice. Piccolo was Goku's best rivals. Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta, but not by a gigantic amount. I think it's fair for Goku to get the spotlight, since he is the main character. I think that about covers my unpopular Dragon Ball opinions.

[RandomGuy96]

How did Goku mess up in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs?

Let Raditz go, lost to Vegeta, got his body stolen by Ginyu, failed at killing Freeza.

What is with your hatred of Goku?

He's an utterly boring and unlikable character who at several times drags the series down, and has some very annoying fans.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Future Trunks is the Mary Sue.

He only looks like a Mary Sue in his debut, but we see almost immediately after that that he is actually weaker than Goku, then Vegeta surpasses him, and then he does the stupidest think a fighter could ever do, not to mention that the fights with Freeza & Cold are the only fights he actually won, until he returned to the future to beat weaker versions of the villains that kicked his ass (and even killed him once). So, how exactly is Trunks a Mary Sue again?

So what if they couldn't keep up with Goku? That doesn't make those characters garbage.

This. The idea that the characters have to be at the forefront of strength to be important at all or worthwhile as a character is one that I just don't get.

Who said BoG was an arc. I said ALL arc have Goku praise and BoG is a prime example of it being in Z. Goku is ALWAYS praise no matter how weak or strong is was.
Saiyan Arc - We need Goku!
Freeza Arc - WE NEED GOKU!
Cyborg Arc - Almost every Trunks dialog. Then once Goku is healed. Everyone is like THE WORLD IS SAVED!
Boo Arc - Everyone fails as a hero. But everyone wants Goku to be the hero.

The thing is, the reason that no one screams "WE NEED GOKU!" in the pre-Saiyan stuff is because they are completely irrelevant. After the first arc, everyone is useless all the time (except a few parts of the RRA arc), and they are only there for some gags, and to show some good fights until they get their asses kicked. Goku is the only one that truly shines in these arcs, while other characters shine more in the DBZ/Kai arcs (mainly Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Kuririn, Goten, and Trunks, with Tenshinhan & Yamcha being a little useful on rare occasions). Not that I agree that the DB arcs are crap, I really like them. But I'll still criticize the negative things in things I like.

[ABED]

How did Goku mess up in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs?

Let Raditz go, lost to Vegeta, got his body stolen by Ginyu, failed at killing Freeza.

What is with your hatred of Goku?

He's an utterly boring and unlikable character who at several times drags the series down, and has some very annoying fans.

I'll give you Raditz, but that ended up working to everyone's advantage. So losing to a stronger opponent is messing up? How is getting his body stolen by Ginyu messing up? He didn't let Ginyu do it, and he didn't know about the technique. That last one doesn't make any sense. What more could Goku have done to Freeza? He blasted him to hell and the planet exploded. There's no way anyone could've expected him to survive because it doesn't make any sense. Two of those things come off as made up reasons.

What characters do you find likeable? I find Goku very likeable and a delight.

[DBZAOTA482]

How did Goku mess up in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs?

Let Raditz go, lost to Vegeta, got his body stolen by Ginyu, failed at killing Freeza.

What is with your hatred of Goku?

He's an utterly boring and unlikable character who at several times drags the series down, and has some very annoying fans.

I kinda agree with you in the sense of Goku gradually becoming increasingly boring and unlikable but only after the Freeza Saga . Up to that point I honestly think he had a great personality but by the Cyborg Saga came by he seemed to have became more of a plot device and less of an actual character.

[ABED]

he seemed to have became more of a plot device and less of an actual character.

How so?