Unpopular DB opinions

[TheGmGoken]

The difference there is that, in each of those arcs, Goku screws up and has to be saved by everyone else. DB would just play the whole thing straight as an arrow.

Saiyan Arc - Goku didn't screw up. Was just beaten by Oozaru Vegeta.
Freeza Arc - Goku didn't screw up. Freeza blew up the planet. Goku still was praised.
Cyborg - Goku didn't take the medicine. That's a screw up. He was still praised by Trunks.
Cell - Praise by everyone
Boo - The only arc with LESS praise.

Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz? You know, the very first fight of the series? I can name more if you'd like.

Only 3? Goku vs Vegeta, Goku vs Freeza, 17 vs Piccolo, Cell vs 16, Goku vs Cell... there are plenty here. Those are only a few examples.

Piccolo's Special beam cannon made his ki higher than Raditz. Goku vs Vegeta? Vegeta destroyed Goku in that fight. Goku only had the upperhand when he used an attack that....I don't know.....INCREASES POWER. Vegeta retreating. Let's see. An Oozaru which is 10x smashing a weaker Vegeta with less power than he normally have. Yup the person with less power won! Even though it was more or less a draw. Let's be honest. Vegeta vs Goku wasn't equal(Unless you mean Majin Vegeta). Goku vs Freeza was one sided towards Freeza. Once Goku went SSJ it was one sided for Goku. 16 beat the shit out of Cell. Cell was holding back against Goku. I can name far more in DB.

Oozaru?

How is that an ass pull. It's been one month since the Moon last appeared. Goku still lost and had he never went Oozaru. Goku still didn't get stomped.

Krillin never beat Goku in a fight.

He learned the Mafuba but couldn't use it because Piccolo's fat minion that was one-shot fodder to Goku was able to kick his ass.

Yea. But Krillin still have beaten Goku. Just in a different matter. What are you talking about? Ten could't use the Mafuba because he broke it.

Ooooh, he forced Goku to use more power, then got easily roflstomped. How useful. The only somewhat worthwhile things he did were in the post-Raditz portions.

He did NOTHING post Raditz besides hold back Cell and almost die. Only for GOKU to save him. Most people would had guess that Goku was removing the weights during JR arc. But for Ten to make Goku remove weights. Kinda a big deal.

Was he? If so, that's total BS, because he was never any match for Piccolo. King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr both mocked him for being so worthless to them. KP didn't even bother to one-shot him, instead spitting up another creature so he doesn't have to dirty his hands on such a weakling, while Piccolo Jr outright told him that even if he had ten other guys with him and Jr was half dead, it wouldn't matter, because he sucks so much compared to Piccolo.

Piccolo Jr said pretty much the same thing to Goku. I don't see your point. A villain being a villain.....

Gohan gets all the development and screen time and is involved in the defeat of every major villain. Same with Vegeta (except when he was the major villain). How is Goku more the main character than they are? He's barley in the post-Raditz portions.

Gohan is involved with every major villain defeat? He was involved with Freeza and Boo's defeat? Goku is still the main character because he is carried as such. He is written as such. He just doesn't get screentime. As I'll say this ONE MORE TIME.
Goku get hurt
Every panic
Support cast does their shit
Goku comes back to get or soon to get BIG POWER
Goku saves the day.

That seems pretty much the main character to me. Only person above him is Gohan.

Goku roflstomped his way through the Baba arc. He actually needed some help when he screwed up in the Freeza arc, and was temporarily surpassed there by Piccolo and Vegeta.

He had trouble with Grandpa Gohan. How did he screw up in the Freeza Arc? He rolfstomped everyone not named Freeza in Freeza arc.

You said you didn't see how anyone could say that the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc.

I know. Then you ask. "How is Baba Arc worse than Cell Arc".

he seemed to have became more of a plot device and less of an actual character.

How so?

Goku get hurt
Every panic
Support cast does their shit
Goku comes back to get or soon to get BIG POWER
Goku saves the day.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Cyborg - Goku didn't take the medicine. That's a screw up. He was still praised by Trunks.

Taking medicine when you are not sick or when they don't make you high is stupid, not a screw up.

[RandomGuy96]

Saiyan Arc - Goku didn't screw up. Was just beaten by Oozaru Vegeta.
Freeza Arc - Goku didn't screw up. Freeza blew up the planet. Goku still was praised.
Cyborg - Goku didn't take the medicine. That's a screw up. He was still praised by Trunks.
Cell - Praise by everyone
Boo - The only arc with LESS praise.

He used Kaio-ken the wrong way and wasted his energy against Vegeta. And lost. Had to be rescued by three other guys.

He got his body stolen by Ginyu and had to be rescued by three other guys. Failed at kill Freeza, Trunks had to do it.

He let the androids be developed and lost to Cell.

Screwed up in the Buu arc; released Buu, didn't beat Vegeta, didn't beat fatso, didn't beat Pure Buu.

Piccolo's Special beam cannon made his ki higher than Raditz.

Bullshit. Piccolo was weaker, he just had a special technique that could affect Raditz when he himself could not. Good example of skill over power.

Goku vs Vegeta? Vegeta destroyed Goku in that fight. Goku only had the upperhand when he used an attack that....I don't know.....INCREASES POWER. Vegeta retreating. Let's see. An Oozaru which is 10x smashing a weaker Vegeta with less power than he normally have. Yup the person with less power won! Even though it was more or less a draw. Let's be honest. Vegeta vs Goku wasn't equal(Unless you mean Majin Vegeta)

I did mean Majin Vegeta. I don't even call the first fight Goku vs Vegeta. It's everyone vs Vegeta.

Goku vs Freeza was one sided towards Freeza. Once Goku went SSJ it was one sided for Goku. 16 beat the shit out of Cell. Cell was holding back against Goku. I can name far more in DB.

No it wasn't. They fought evenly at first, then Freeza had the advantage (but Goku could still land hits), then Goku had the advantage (but Freeza could still land hits). The tables kept turning, it wasn't a simple roflstomp.

Yeah no. Re-read the fight.

So?

How is that an ass pull. It's been one month since the Moon last appeared. Goku still lost and had he never went Oozaru. Goku still didn't get stomped.

It was totally one-sided, Goku only had a chance because of ass-pulls like Oozaru that forced Roshi to waste energy.

Yea. But Krillin still have beaten Goku. Just in a different matter. What are you talking about? Ten could't use the Mafuba because he broke it.

But it's a series about fighting...

Either way, him learning to use it amounted to nothing.

He did NOTHING post Raditz besides hold back Cell and almost die. Only for GOKU to save him. Most people would had guess that Goku was removing the weights during JR arc. But for Ten to make Goku remove weights. Kinda a big deal.

That's still far more than he did pre-Raditz.

No, it really isn't. He made Goku use more power to stomp him. Whoopdy-do.

Piccolo Jr said pretty much the same thing to Goku. I don't see your point. A villain being a villain.....

Goku didn't agree with him.

Gohan is involved with every major villain defeat? He was involved with Freeza and Boo's defeat? Goku is still the main character because he is carried as such. He is written as such. He just doesn't get screentime. As I'll say this ONE MORE TIME.
Goku get hurt
Every panic
Support cast does their shit
Goku comes back to get or soon to get BIG POWER
Goku saves the day.

No, more like:

Goku's out of the picture.

Everyone try to make do.

Supporting cast does their shit.

Goku comes back and fails.

Someone else (Gohan, Trunks, Gohan, Mr. Satan) saves the day.

Yeah, Gohan was. The majority of the Genki-Dama's power was his (his energy + a few irrelevant others was already almost enough to dust Buu), he's the reason Super Buu didn't kill Gotenks and destroy the Earth, and he was part of the group that distracted Freeza long enough for Goku to heal.

That seems pretty much the main character to me. Only person above him is Gohan.

That would make Gohan the main character.

He had trouble with Grandpa Gohan. How did he screw up in the Freeza Arc? He rolfstomped everyone not named Freeza in Freeza arc.

He had trouble because of the tail weakness. After that was rendered irrelevant, Gohan surrendered.

He lost his body to Ginyu and failed to kill Freeza. If he didn't learn IT, something he couldn't have foreseen, Freeza would have killed everyone on Earth. Luckily, Trunks was there.

I know. Then you ask. "How is Baba Arc worse than Cell Arc".

Typo. Not what I meant to say. I meant to ask "how is it unbelievable that the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc?"

[DBZAOTA482]

he seemed to have became more of a plot device and less of an actual character.

How so?

The Majin Boo Saga. Did I say more?

[Kid Buu]

"Yamcha and Krillin were effortlessly defeated by Baba's warriors... OMG BUT HERE COMES GOKU AND HE ONE-SHOTTED THE GUY WHO COULD EASILY DEFEAT THOSE TWO AND NOW HE'S BEATING UP A GUY EVEN STRONGER THAN THAT! OH NO HE'S USING HIS ULTIMATE ATTACK- LOL JK IT DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE GOKU IS SO PURE AND PERFECT! EVERYONE START TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT GOKU IS!".

Urgh, this is made worse by the anime, where Roshi at one point just basically dismisses Dracula/Invisible Man as foes and says Mummy is the true opponent. So according to Toei, only the fights that Goku are in matter.

The arc definitely jumped the shark when Yamcha's surprise attack didn't beat the Mummy. What I liked is how Dracula and Invisible Man were beaten in creative ways, but Mummy in a boring way. At least the fight with Gohan was good.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I did mean Majin Vegeta. I don't even call the first fight Goku vs Vegeta. It's everyone vs Vegeta.

Technically, it's Goku vs Vegeta and then Gohan, Kuririn, and Yajirobe vs Vegeta, since all that Goku does there was giving the Genki Dama to Kuririn, he didn't fight.

[ABED]

He had trouble because of the tail weakness. After that was rendered irrelevant, Gohan surrendered.

Rewatch the fight, Gohan's offense wasn't limited to holding Goku's tail, and he gave up mainly because his purpose in the fight was to see how his grandson was doing. He got his answer in spades. Not only was he doing well in terms of his strength and skill, he had a group of friends that cared deeply for him.

Also, it makes complete sense that Goku would be so much stronger than his friends. By that point he had been in constant combat and got training from Karin.

I liked the fight with Mummy. Goku was very creative in how he got out of Mummy's wrappings.

The arc definitely jumped the shark

How was that jumping the shark.

[thatdbzguy]

Seeing you guys going at each other's throats despite telling me that you have "positive" discussions about DB all the time just proves my point. The DB fandom loves finding new things to rip apart in the Dragon Ball universe.

I'm not saying you have to constantly praise the series, but you guys seem to do the exact opposite (and when you do compliment something about the series, you turn right around and insult something else about it), hence why I don't praise the series. I have never seen a fandom act so hostile towards the thing they they all supposedly like more than this one.

As for unpopular opinions, i generally regard the Cell arc as the weakest.

That's a popular opinion here.

[ABED]

Seeing you guys going at each other's throats despite telling me that you have "positive" discussions about DB all the time just proves my point. The DB fandom loves finding new things to rip apart in the Dragon Ball universe.

I'm not saying you have to constantly praise the series, but you guys seem to do the exact opposite (and when you do compliment something about the series, you turn right around and insult something else about it), hence why I don't praise the series. I have never seen a fandom act so hostile towards the thing they they all supposedly like more than this one.

Hi pot, this is kettle, you're black.

You never say "you have to praise the series" You don't say anything positive because you have no opinion of your own. There are plenty of threads where people discuss what they enjoy.

[RandomGuy96]

Technically, it's Goku vs Vegeta and then Gohan, Kuririn, and Yajirobe vs Vegeta, since all that Goku does there was giving the Genki Dama to Kuririn, he didn't fight.

I consider the whole thing one big team effort, since there's nothing separating the fights (like there is separating SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta vs Pure Buu from the second fight with Mr. Buu and the Genki-Dama), and because Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe were only able to go so far because Vegeta was already damaged and distracted by Goku.

[thatdbzguy]

Seeing you guys going at each other's throats despite telling me that you have "positive" discussions about DB all the time just proves my point. The DB fandom loves finding new things to rip apart in the Dragon Ball universe.

I'm not saying you have to constantly praise the series, but you guys seem to do the exact opposite (and when you do compliment something about the series, you turn right around and insult something else about it), hence why I don't praise the series. I have never seen a fandom act so hostile towards the thing they they all supposedly like more than this one.

Hi pot, this is kettle, you're black.

You never say "you have to praise the series" You don't say anything positive because you have no opinion of your own.

I used to have things to praise about the series, but you guys did a fine job of tearing those things apart.

[TheGmGoken]

He used Kaio-ken the wrong way and wasted his energy against Vegeta. And lost. Had to be rescued by three other guys.

He got his body stolen by Ginyu and had to be rescued by three other guys. Failed at kill Freeza, Trunks had to do it.

He let the androids be developed and lost to Cell.

Screwed up in the Buu arc; released Buu, didn't beat Vegeta, didn't beat fatso, didn't beat Pure Buu.

He didn't waste energy. He did what he had to do to win. But failed. That's NOT a screw up. Not to mention Vegeta had Oozaru. Goku getting his body stolen was not a screw up. He didn't "fail" to kill Freeza. He let him live. Goku was just going to kill him anyways. Piccolo and Vegeta(Or was it someone else) agreed with Goku about letting the Cyborg developed. That's not just Goku. Him losing to Cell was NOT a screw up. You're mis-using the word screw up.

Bullshit. Piccolo was weaker, he just had a special technique that could affect Raditz when he himself could not. Good example of skill over power.

Wasn't skill. I mean how would Piccolo hit Raditz had Goku not put him in a hold. Feet Kamehameha = Skill. A beam that takes 5 minutes to charge and just a forward beam isn't skill. Piccolo ki surpassed Raditz because of special beam canon. FACT not bullshit.

No it wasn't. They fought evenly at first, then Freeza had the advantage (but Goku could still land hits), then Goku had the advantage (but Freeza could still land hits). The tables kept turning, it wasn't a simple roflstomp.

Yeah no. Re-read the fight.

So?

Freeza vs Base Goku was one sided. As soon as Freeza went 50%. Goku only got the Kaiokenx20 and even that failed. GokuSSJ vs Freeza was one sided as well. 16 was obvious kicking Cell ass. I don't know what's the "so" for. I'm guessing Cell vs Goku. Yea I don't count holding back as an even fight.

It was totally one-sided, Goku only had a chance because of ass-pulls like Oozaru that forced Roshi to waste energy.

No it wasn't. It wasn't equal but wasn't one sided. Roshi clearly had the upper-hand but still was NOT one sided. Oozaru wasn't an ass-pull. It was logic. After that Roshi still won anyways.

But it's a series about fighting...

Either way, him learning to use it amounted to nothing.

The series was still more humor than fighting at that point. Also same can be said about Gohan learning Masako.

That's still far more than he did pre-Raditz.

No, it really isn't. He made Goku use more power to stomp him. Whoopdy-do.

Yup. Making Goku who trained with Popo and GOD. I repeat GOD(Before we knew that God was useless.). The same one that kicked Yamcha ass and the same one that gave Piccolo minor trouble. Making Goku use more power is a honor.

Goku didn't agree with him.

So....? I didn't say he did. I'm saying it's villains being villains.

No, more like:

Goku's out of the picture.

Everyone try to make do.

Supporting cast does their shit.

Goku comes back and fails.

Someone else (Gohan, Trunks, Gohan, Mr. Satan) saves the day.

Gohan saves the day twice? It's Goten not Gohan. Anyways. That list I made. Was NOT for Boo Arc. It's for every arc starting with Saiyan. Also Goku "saving" the day could easily mean he failed. Goku doesn't have to win to save the day. Goku save the day in Cell Arc because he told Gohan to fight(Kamehameha). Boo arc Goku USED Genkidama. I don't see how Trunks or Goten saved the day. Not even in Boo did that happen. Not to mention your first 3 stuff on your list is the EXACT same as mine....

Yeah, Gohan was. The majority of the Genki-Dama's power was his (his energy + a few irrelevant others was already almost enough to dust Buu), he's the reason Super Buu didn't kill Gotenks and destroy the Earth, and he was part of the group that distracted Freeza long enough for Goku to heal.

Boo still killed both Gotenks and Gohan. He being an idiot and letting Gotenks fight was a mistake. Not to mention he can't catch . Goku(SSJ) vs Freeza ended the arc. Not the GenkiDama. So I don't see how Gohan helped in defeating Freeza.

That would make Gohan the main character.

Nope. They both are the main characters. That's like saying Sasuke isn't a main character.

He had trouble because of the tail weakness. After that was rendered irrelevant, Gohan surrendered.

He lost his body to Ginyu and failed to kill Freeza. If he didn't learn IT, something he couldn't have foreseen, Freeza would have killed everyone on Earth. Luckily, Trunks was there.

That is NOT SCREWING UP. Losing his body is not a screw up. That's not his fault. Him failing to kill Freeza wasn't a fail. He did that on purpose. There is no if or buts. Goku learned IT. So either way Freeza would be dead.

Typo. Not what I meant to say. I meant to ask "how is it unbelievable that the Baba arc is worse than the Cell arc?"

Cause Baba Arc is apart of Red Ribbon Arc.

Seeing you guys going at each other's throats despite telling me that you have "positive" discussions about DB all the time just proves my point. The DB fandom loves finding new things to rip apart in the Dragon Ball universe.

I'm not saying you have to constantly praise the series, but you guys seem to do the exact opposite (and when you do compliment something about the series, you turn right around and insult something else about it), hence why I don't praise the series. I have never seen a fandom act so hostile towards the thing they they all supposedly like more than this one.

. We're debating. We all have opinions. These things are NOT NEW. People been saying this for YEARS. This discussion is positive. We're expressing what we like. Then when people explain why they don't like it. We make more reasons TO Like it. We praise the series every day. We "Mock" the series everyday in a way as well. It's a forum with discussions. What you think was going to happen. OVER 900 years are going to feel positive today? You don't praise the series cause you don't like the fans. Seems legit. We're not hostile. I LOVE DB. For you to even say I'm hostile towards it is disrespectful. I LOVE EVERY SINGLE ARC. I just prefer some over others.

Seeing you guys going at each other's throats despite telling me that you have "positive" discussions about DB all the time just proves my point. The DB fandom loves finding new things to rip apart in the Dragon Ball universe.

I'm not saying you have to constantly praise the series, but you guys seem to do the exact opposite (and when you do compliment something about the series, you turn right around and insult something else about it), hence why I don't praise the series. I have never seen a fandom act so hostile towards the thing they they all supposedly like more than this one.

Hi pot, this is kettle, you're black.

You never say "you have to praise the series" You don't say anything positive because you have no opinion of your own.

I used to have things to praise about the series, but you guys did a fine job of tearing those things apart.

YOU NEVER had anything to praise. Every post I've seen you make was to disrespect to the series. All those topics about you being ashamed of being a DB fan because "it's the laughing stock of anime fans" or "The plot is repetitive". This whole debate starting with you saying "DBZ did nothing right". Please I dare you. To say ONE THING good about DBZ. I'll make an Amv tribute JUST FOR YOU...if you can do at least that.

Ok guys. We should stop debating. Seriously let's just go back to posting unpopular opinions. We're ruining the show for a member.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Technically, it's Goku vs Vegeta and then Gohan, Kuririn, and Yajirobe vs Vegeta, since all that Goku does there was giving the Genki Dama to Kuririn, he didn't fight.

I consider the whole thing one big team effort, since there's nothing separating the fights (like there is separating SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta vs Pure Buu from the second fight with Mr. Buu and the Genki-Dama), and because Gohan, Krillin, and Yajirobe were only able to go so far because Vegeta was already damaged and distracted by Goku.

Well yeah, it's one big fight in the end, but it does split in 2 parts, since up until Goku broke, he was fighting alone. Like the final fight with Boo splits in Goku vs Boo, Vegeta vs Boo, etc.

[Kid Buu]

Overall I think Yamcha should have beaten the Mummy because there wasn't really a point of him needing to Worf Effect The Mummy here since we all know that Goku can take on foes that can beat up Yamcha (Jackie Chun).

[ABED]

Overall I think Yamcha should have beaten the Mummy because there wasn't really a point of him needing to Worf Effect The Mummy here since we all know that Goku can take on foes that can beat up Yamcha (Jackie Chun).

Yamcha did an admirable job in the match.

[thatdbzguy]

YOU NEVER had anything to praise. Every post I've seen you make was to disrespect to the series. All those topics about you being ashamed of being a DB fan because "it's the laughing stock of anime fans" or "The plot is repetitive". This whole debate starting with you saying "DBZ did nothing right". Please I dare you. To say ONE THING good about DBZ. I'll make an Amv tribute JUST FOR YOU...if you can do at least that.

Ok guys. We should stop debating. Seriously let's just go back to posting unpopular opinions. We're ruining the show for a member.

I was talking about before I started posting. The more discussions I saw, the more things I see everyone come up with to hold against DBZ. And it makes me wonder: if the fanbase can so easily find what seems to be an unlimited amount of things that DBZ does absolutely wrong, than doesn't that say something about the series' overall quality?

And don't worry about ruining the show for me. It's way too late for that.

[RandomGuy96]

He didn't waste energy. He did what he had to do to win. But failed. That's NOT a screw up. Not to mention Vegeta had Oozaru. Goku getting his body stolen was not a screw up. He didn't "fail" to kill Freeza. He let him live. Goku was just going to kill him anyways. Piccolo and Vegeta(Or was it someone else) agreed with Goku about letting the Cyborg developed. That's not just Goku. Him losing to Cell was NOT a screw up. You're mis-using the word screw up.

Yes, he failed. And no, he should have used KK x4 or x3 right from the start instead of screwing around taking damage by using base and x2.

He didn't doge it, and he failed. He needed others to save him.

What? No he didn't. He fired a big-ass ki blast at him and then the planet exploded, which Freeza somehow survived.

He would only be able to kill him by getting IT... something he didn't know about when he failed.

It was those two and Tenshinhan. That just makes them all morons and screw-ups rather than just Goku.

Okay then, substitute "failure".

Wasn't skill. I mean how would Piccolo hit Raditz had Goku not put him in a hold. Feet Kamehameha = Skill. A beam that takes 5 minutes to charge and just a forward beam isn't skill. Piccolo ki surpassed Raditz because of special beam canon. FACT not bullshit.

Yeah it was. Piccolo developed a powerful technique while Raditz was a noob with ki. Skillz.

You can't say that ANY attack that is greater than your opponent automatically means you've surpassed them. It doesn't. It just means you are more skilled in ki manipulation than they are.

Freeza vs Base Goku was one sided. As soon as Freeza went 50%. Goku only got the Kaiokenx20 and even that failed. GokuSSJ vs Freeza was one sided as well. 16 was obvious kicking Cell ass. I don't know what's the "so" for. I'm guessing Cell vs Goku. Yea I don't count holding back as an even fight.

Err, not it wasn't. It was a pretty fair fight.

He managed to get a few damaging hits in on Freeza with the punch, Kamehameha, and Genki-Dama, Freeza didn't just one-shot him.

These aren't separate fights. They're all part of a big fight where the tables were constantly turning and the victory could've gone to everyone up until Freeza cut himself in half.

No he wasn't.

What does it matter if Cell wasn't using FP on Goku? That's what the "so" means.

No it wasn't. It wasn't equal but wasn't one sided. Roshi clearly had the upper-hand but still was NOT one sided. Oozaru wasn't an ass-pull. It was logic. After that Roshi still won anyways.

It was. Roshi would have won quickly without said ass-pulls. It's not an even fight if Goku has to be helped several times by external factors to have a chance.

The series was still more humor than fighting at that point. Also same can be said about Gohan learning Masako.

So and so?

Yup. Making Goku who trained with Popo and GOD. I repeat GOD(Before we knew that God was useless.). The same one that kicked Yamcha ass and the same one that gave Piccolo minor trouble. Making Goku use more power is a honor.

Even if you do think that (I don't), how does that make him useful? Kami still could've totally kicked his ass, and he couldn't beat Piccolo. Only Goku could.

So....? I didn't say he did. I'm saying it's villains being villains.

The main thing is that he wasn't just bragging; he was completely right. They said it themselves; they really were just that sucky compared to Goku.

Gohan saves the day twice? It's Goten not Gohan. Anyways. That list I made. Was NOT for Boo Arc. It's for every arc starting with Saiyan. Also Goku "saving" the day could easily mean he failed. Goku doesn't have to win to save the day. Goku save the day in Cell Arc because he told Gohan to fight(Kamehameha). Boo arc Goku USED Genkidama. I don't see how Trunks or Goten saved the day. Not even in Boo did that happen. Not to mention your first 3 stuff on your list is the EXACT same as mine....

The Buu arc comes after the Saiyan arc, what are you even talking about?

Oozaru Gohan is what finally brings down Vegeta and he's the one that kills Cell. Also, his power alone was nearly enough to complete the whole Genki-Dama, and without his power it wouldn't have worked.

Yeah, he does, otherwise it's someone else saving the day after Goku fails. Goku was just part of a team effort in the Buu arc (a relatively minor one too; Vegeta came up with the plan, Mr. Buu fought, Gohan provided the raw power, and Mr. Satan finished it) and gave motivational words in the Cell arc, not actually save the day (because CG Gohan is a bitch). Goku didn't defeat any of the main Z villains; at best, he was the second or first most important contributor in the team efforts that killed two of the main villains.

When did I say Goten saved the day? Trunks did because he killed Freeza after Goku botched the job.

Boo still killed both Gotenks and Gohan. He being an idiot and letting Gotenks fight was a mistake. Not to mention he can't catch . Goku(SSJ) vs Freeza ended the arc. Not the GenkiDama. So I don't see how Gohan helped in defeating Freeza.

He can dodge bullets but can't catch a fucking earring...

If Gohan hadn't been there with the rest of the jobber squad to distract Freeza, Goku wouldn't have survived long enough to heal.

Yes, Pure Buu did while they were knocked out from the struggle with Super Buu, but if Gohan hadn't forced Super Buu to come up with a plan, he'd just kill Gotenks and blow up the Earth. End of arc.

Nope. They both are the main characters. That's like saying Sasuke isn't a main character.

I don't even know who that is.

That is NOT SCREWING UP. Losing his body is not a screw up. That's not his fault. Him failing to kill Freeza wasn't a fail. He did that on purpose. There is no if or buts. Goku learned IT. So either way Freeza would be dead.

Yeah it is, because unless GInyu's attack works differently than every other attack in the series he could have dodged.

No he didn't; he shot a blast and yelled at Freeza to die... but Freeza didn't die.

He couldn't have foreseen that. He can't be praised for relying on sheer dumb luck.

Cause Baba Arc is apart of Red Ribbon Arc.

It's not related to the RR arc, even if it deals with one of its aftershocks.

Well yeah, it's one big fight in the end, but it does split in 2 parts, since up until Goku broke, he was fighting alone. Like the final fight with Boo splits in Goku vs Boo, Vegeta vs Boo, etc.

Not really. The other three do arrive to help, but the fight never stops, and things from Goku's scuffle with Vegeta still affect the battle and contribute to his overall defeat.

I consider the whole final battle with Pure Buu to have two parts:

SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta vs Pure Buu

Mr. Buu + team Genki-Dama effort vs Pure Buu

They're separated by Goku and Vegeta being beaten into base, Pure Buu doing some gags with Mr. Satan, and then Pure spitting out Mister.

[TheGmGoken]

YOU NEVER had anything to praise. Every post I've seen you make was to disrespect to the series. All those topics about you being ashamed of being a DB fan because "it's the laughing stock of anime fans" or "The plot is repetitive". This whole debate starting with you saying "DBZ did nothing right". Please I dare you. To say ONE THING good about DBZ. I'll make an Amv tribute JUST FOR YOU...if you can do at least that.

Ok guys. We should stop debating. Seriously let's just go back to posting unpopular opinions. We're ruining the show for a member.

I was talking about before I started posting. The more discussions I saw, the more things I see everyone come up with to hold against DBZ. And it makes me wonder: if the fanbase can so easily find what seems to be an unlimited amount of things that DBZ does absolutely wrong, than doesn't that say something about the series' overall quality?

And don't worry about ruining the show for me. It's way too late for that.

I found something wrong with EVERY STORY I read. That doesn't give Db a pass. Gurren Lagann is my fave anime and I still find stuff wrong. I guess thay means TTGL and every story I've seen have poor writing

[thatdbzguy]

YOU NEVER had anything to praise. Every post I've seen you make was to disrespect to the series. All those topics about you being ashamed of being a DB fan because "it's the laughing stock of anime fans" or "The plot is repetitive". This whole debate starting with you saying "DBZ did nothing right". Please I dare you. To say ONE THING good about DBZ. I'll make an Amv tribute JUST FOR YOU...if you can do at least that.

Ok guys. We should stop debating. Seriously let's just go back to posting unpopular opinions. We're ruining the show for a member.

I was talking about before I started posting. The more discussions I saw, the more things I see everyone come up with to hold against DBZ. And it makes me wonder: if the fanbase can so easily find what seems to be an unlimited amount of things that DBZ does absolutely wrong, than doesn't that say something about the series' overall quality?

And don't worry about ruining the show for me. It's way too late for that.

I found something wrong with EVERY STORY I read. That doesn't give Db a pass. Gurren Lagann is my fave anime and I still find stuff wrong. I guess thay means TTGL and every story I've seen have poor writing

I highly doubt you find as many things wrong with Gurren Lagann as you do with DB.

[goku the krump dancer]

I loved the Dragon Rush in Budokai 3.