Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

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Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Tensa Zangetsu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:57 am

What is the minimum PL required to blow up a planet like Earth?

According to the daizenshuu its 200-300 kili, so idk. In terms of scouter power levels how much would that be?

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:59 pm

I think anyone around Freeza can destroy a Planet casually. Freeza didn't blow up Namek off the bat to avoid being caught in his own blast.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Mystic Buu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:19 pm

Tensa Zangetsu wrote:What is the minimum PL required to blow up a planet like Earth?

According to the daizenshuu its 200-300 kili, so idk. In terms of scouter power levels how much would that be?
Vegeta,with a power level of 18 000 intended to destroy Earth and Goku with it.So 18 000 is minimum power level to destroy planet like Earth.

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Tensa Zangetsu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:51 pm

Mystic Buu wrote:
Tensa Zangetsu wrote:What is the minimum PL required to blow up a planet like Earth?

According to the daizenshuu its 200-300 kili, so idk. In terms of scouter power levels how much would that be?
Vegeta,with a power level of 18 000 intended to destroy Earth and Goku with it.So 18 000 is minimum power level to destroy planet like Earth.
Wasn't Vegeta using Galick gun that put him around 24,000?

Also, wouldn't that mean Season 1 Vegeta's in terms of kili is around 200-300?

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Low Tone G » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:01 pm

Wasn't Vegeta using Galick gun that put him around 24,000?
No, he was at his full power, 18,000 because Goku with a Kaio-ken 2x exactly equal to him...
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:03 pm

We don't know if Vegeta was really going to blow up the Earth for good. Vegeta can be cocky, but I don't think he's that cocky enough to kill himself along with the Planet.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Super Vegetto » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:05 pm

Vegeta would probably kill Goku and hit the core of Earth with Galick Gun, than get in space pod and left the Earth...

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Tensa Zangetsu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:42 pm

Low Tone G wrote:
Wasn't Vegeta using Galick gun that put him around 24,000?
No, he was at his full power, 18,000 because Goku with a Kaio-ken 2x exactly equal to him...
No. Goku needed kaioken x3 to match Vegeta

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:53 pm

Mystic Buu wrote:
Tensa Zangetsu wrote:What is the minimum PL required to blow up a planet like Earth?

According to the daizenshuu its 200-300 kili, so idk. In terms of scouter power levels how much would that be?
Vegeta,with a power level of 18 000 intended to destroy Earth and Goku with it.So 18 000 is minimum power level to destroy planet like Earth.
No it doesn't. It just means that someone with a power level of 18 thousand could be capable of blowing up the Earth. For all we know, someone with a level of 15 thousand, or 12 thousand, or whatever could be capable of blowing up the Earth. Vegeta is just the first person to try, and there's such a big gap between he and the next strongest villain at that point (Nappa) that it leaves a huge gap in which planet-busting capabilities may be possible.

Hell, even Piccolo Daimao said that he would destroy the planet at one point. This could be construed as him being able to blow up the Earth without really contradicting anything.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:56 pm

It probably depends a lot on the planet itself. A relatively small and fragile world like Earth probably could be destroyed by the 20,000-something power of Vegeta's Gallic Gun, but blowing up a larger and "heavier" one like Planet Vegeta might need a power like Freeza's in the hundreds of thousands.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Low Tone G » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:12 pm

Tensa Zangetsu wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:
Wasn't Vegeta using Galick gun that put him around 24,000?
No, he was at his full power, 18,000 because Goku with a Kaio-ken 2x exactly equal to him...
No. Goku needed kaioken x3 to match Vegeta
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Tensa Zangetsu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:16 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Mystic Buu wrote:
Tensa Zangetsu wrote:What is the minimum PL required to blow up a planet like Earth?

According to the daizenshuu its 200-300 kili, so idk. In terms of scouter power levels how much would that be?
Vegeta,with a power level of 18 000 intended to destroy Earth and Goku with it.So 18 000 is minimum power level to destroy planet like Earth.
No it doesn't. It just means that someone with a power level of 18 thousand could be capable of blowing up the Earth. For all we know, someone with a level of 15 thousand, or 12 thousand, or whatever could be capable of blowing up the Earth. Vegeta is just the first person to try, and there's such a big gap between he and the next strongest villain at that point (Nappa) that it leaves a huge gap in which planet-busting capabilities may be possible.

Hell, even Piccolo Daimao said that he would destroy the planet at one point. This could be construed as him being able to blow up the Earth without really contradicting anything.
Piccolo daimao was clearly boasting, and we know his best attacks could only destroy cities.
The daizenshuu even says his power rivals only that of a small nuke.

He was probably thinking of destroying the world one city at a time, instead of one-shotting the entire planet in a single blast like Vegeta.

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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:24 pm

Tensa Zangetsu wrote:]Piccolo daimao was clearly boasting, and we know his best attacks could only destroy cities.
The daizenshuu even says his power rivals only that of a small nuke.

He was probably thinking of destroying the world one city at a time, instead of one-shotting the entire planet in a single blast like Vegeta.
Just because he was bragging about it doesn't mean he was lying. And if Roshi was capable of blowing up the moon, then Daimao, who was much more powerful than Roshi was, would clearly have more power than he. Seeing as a small nuke couldn't destroy the moon, you would have to reconcile that statement (can I get an exact citation for that, by the way?) by saying that it was referring specifically to the attack Daimao used to destroy that city (and again, who says that was his best attack?) and not referring to his full power, as, again, he was much stronger than the guy who blew up the moon.

And I'm not saying that Daimao could blow up the Earth, only that such a feat being within his power would not contradict anything that happens later in the series. The gaps between the consecutive villains allow for a huge area of potential "planet-busting" power levels. We don't have enough information to set a minimum.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Bussani » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:46 pm

I think Roshi blowing up the Moon is a real bump in the progression of power depictions. That's enough power to wipe out all life on Earth with a single attack, even if the planet itself would technically survive, and yet Daimao is only as powerful as a nuclear weapon and the most we see him (or anyone before Freeza, for that matter) blow up is the size of a city or an island? Maybe Earth's Moon in Dragon Ball is just really fragile.

As for destroying a planet, logically speaking, there should be different levels to it. In real life, hitting the Earth with 2.24 x 10^32 joules would be enough to explode it and send the fragments away from each other at escape velocity, which is what you need to do if you want to blow it completely apart and not have it fall back together due to the fragments own gravity with one another. However, this escape velocity is pretty slow compared to what we think of when we think of a planet exploding in fiction (e.g. in Dragon Ball, Star Wars, etc)--to get those sorts of fast, planet-gone-in-seconds blasts, you need a lot more energy (up in the 10^40 realms).

But then you have to start getting into defintions. Even with a bit less than 2.24 x 10^32 joules, you could still shatter the planet; the catch is just that the pieces would then crash back together. That would still kill everything on Earth and most likely turn the entire planet inside out though, right? Does that count as "planet-busting"? Personally, I think that if Vegeta could only do that much but not completely reduce the Earth to space-dust, it would still easily fit his boast of destroying the planet.

All that said, Dragon Ball functions on its own logic where you can destroy a planet by shooting/destroying its core, which isn't how it works in real life, so actually answering the question with real logic may be impossible. Still, I think it's possible that Vegeta wasn't strong enough to reduce the Earth to dust, but was strong enough to reduce it to a molten ball. Possible, but not necessary, that is.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:28 pm

Depending on the size of the DB Moon to DB Earth (Lets say half for the sake of argument), id say a PL of around 1000 would be enough.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by mAcChaos » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:37 pm

Bussani wrote:As for destroying a planet, logically speaking, there should be different levels to it. In real life, hitting the Earth with 2.24 x 10^32 joules would be enough to explode it and send the fragments away from each other at escape velocity, which is what you need to do if you want to blow it completely apart and not have it fall back together due to the fragments own gravity with one another.
That would be a cool post apocalyptic landscape... if just enough energy hit the earth to break it apart, but have it still hang around. I wonder what would happen to the atmosphere and such.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:17 pm

I've always been skeptical of linking power levels to any "real world" standards. In other words, saying you need X power level to do Y, if Y is anything other than "beat someone with a lower PL".

I would say it's not really consistent.

Of course the size and composition of the planet would have to be taken into account as well.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Herms » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:38 pm

Bussani wrote:I think Roshi blowing up the Moon is a real bump in the progression of power depictions. That's enough power to wipe out all life on Earth with a single attack, even if the planet itself would technically survive, and yet Daimao is only as powerful as a nuclear weapon and the most we see him (or anyone before Freeza, for that matter) blow up is the size of a city or an island? Maybe Earth's Moon in Dragon Ball is just really fragile.
I like to try and partially explain that away by saying that maybe Kame-sennin's beefy form is similar to Super Saiyan Grade III: a "power-weighted" form that makes his power shoot way, way up but kills his speed, making it unsuited for battle. On top of that, his Max Power Kamehameha is probably similar to attacks like the Makankosappo, ones that are leagues stronger than the character's regular attacks but take a long time to charge. Long story short, when Kame-sennin beefs up and fires his Max Power Kamehamaeha, perhaps he technically is much more powerful than Piccolo, but he'd never be able to land an attack on Piccolo in a real one-on-one fight, similar to Trunks vs Cell. It is suggestive that the only times in the main series where we ever see Kame-sennin use his beefy form is when firing attacks at large, immobile objects.
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Tensa Zangetsu » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:04 pm

Herms wrote:
Bussani wrote:I think Roshi blowing up the Moon is a real bump in the progression of power depictions. That's enough power to wipe out all life on Earth with a single attack, even if the planet itself would technically survive, and yet Daimao is only as powerful as a nuclear weapon and the most we see him (or anyone before Freeza, for that matter) blow up is the size of a city or an island? Maybe Earth's Moon in Dragon Ball is just really fragile.
I like to try and partially explain that away by saying that maybe Kame-sennin's beefy form is similar to Super Saiyan Grade III: a "power-weighted" form that makes his power shoot way, way up but kills his speed, making it unsuited for battle. On top of that, his Max Power Kamehameha is probably similar to attacks like the Makankosappo, ones that are leagues stronger than the character's regular attacks but take a long time to charge. Long story short, when Kame-sennin beefs up and fires his Max Power Kamehamaeha, perhaps he technically is much more powerful than Piccolo, but he'd never be able to land an attack on Piccolo in a real one-on-one fight, similar to Trunks vs Cell. It is suggestive that the only times in the main series where we ever see Kame-sennin use his beefy form is when firing attacks at large, immobile objects.
But then, why was he not confident of taking Old Piccolo Daimao even along with Tien's help? He even says his younger self won't be a match for him.
Infact he wasn't even confident of taking the red ribbon army.

I also think the moonbusting part is an outlier because the Kamehameha can't reach the moon in seconds.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Tensa Zangetsu wrote:]Piccolo daimao was clearly boasting, and we know his best attacks could only destroy cities.
The daizenshuu even says his power rivals only that of a small nuke.

He was probably thinking of destroying the world one city at a time, instead of one-shotting the entire planet in a single blast like Vegeta.
Just because he was bragging about it doesn't mean he was lying. And if Roshi was capable of blowing up the moon, then Daimao, who was much more powerful than Roshi was, would clearly have more power than he. Seeing as a small nuke couldn't destroy the moon, you would have to reconcile that statement (can I get an exact citation for that, by the way?) by saying that it was referring specifically to the attack Daimao used to destroy that city (and again, who says that was his best attack?) and not referring to his full power, as, again, he was much stronger than the guy who blew up the moon.

And I'm not saying that Daimao could blow up the Earth, only that such a feat being within his power would not contradict anything that happens later in the series. The gaps between the consecutive villains allow for a huge area of potential "planet-busting" power levels. We don't have enough information to set a minimum.
Roshi blowing up the moon is an outlier.

He can't even beat the red ribbon army, and guys stronger than him like Tao get destroyed by grenades.

And
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..implying someone stronger than Roshi, like Yajirobe can't tank city level attacks
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Re: Minimum power level required for planet-busting?

Post by Kaboom » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:08 pm

Tensa Zangetsu wrote:But then, why was he not confident of taking Old Piccolo Daimao even along with Tenshinhan's help? He even says his younger self won't be a match for him.
...Because of the explanation Herms just offered. His buff states grants him a huge amount of power, but it's useless in an actual fight. King Piccolo wouldn't just stand there and let Roshi charge up and hit him with a Kamehameha.
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