Why do fans hate/demonize Yamcha and Chi-Chi?

[MediaFanGirl93]

I know it's not in this forum that Yamcha and Chi-Chi get bashed mercilessly, but I just wanted to know.

Yamcha

I remember having a discussion with a Yamcha fan on Tumblr and he sent me links of (badly written in my opinion) DBZ high school fanfictions that bash Yamcha and make him out to be a victim of bullying (or Yamcha being a bully himself). To me, I think Yamcha is a nice guy, even though he can be a huge Butt Monkey and he's good comic relief as well (even if he is on the receiving end of some slapstick by the other characters). I know Yamcha got the worst treatment in Dragonball Z, but I don't see how fans can dislike him to the point of demonizing him in fan-fiction and making him out to be a rapist and a tyrant. I never had a problem with Yamcha when I watched the series, so I do think the hate he gets is overblown and ridiculous. Also, I don't think he's as "weak" and as "useless" as fans make him out to be. I mean, I think Yamcha is the most disliked male character, but there are other males who are just as weak/useless, so why single Yamcha out?

Chi-Chi

Okay, now I understand that she has a bad rep in the fandom because of how the anime portrays her. I'll be honest here. I'll admit I didn't like Chi-Chi at first because I found her to be obnoxious, annoying, and selfish when it came to her "education>saving the world" priority, but I grew to like her character. I do find it understandable that fans won't like her because her traits are exaggerated in the anime, but I still find the hate towards her to be overblown. I mean, a lot of fans usually ignore/dismiss her good qualities (being caring towards her family: caring for Goku when he had the heart virus, and always caring for Gohan and Goten) and her character development in the Cell and Buu Saga, and bash her in fanfics and outright say that she doesn't deserve her family and sons. They even say she's an awful mother and wife and that she deserves death. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me here, but I still think she's the stereotypical authoritarian parent, rather than the "abusive" parents fans make her out to be.

[DBZAOTA482]

There are 3 main reasons for Chi-Chi's less than favorable reputation (from least to greatest):

3) Comedy over character development

Toriyama-sensei has admitted and shown in the past that it's more convenient for him to write jokes than to write character development (after all, he was a gag manga-ka first and storyteller second), and not to mention the manga was very plot-driven so lesser characters naturally aren't going to get a lot of character development. Think about it we almost don't get to see Chi-Chi's point of view on things. It's always about what Goku and Z-Senshi view as important. I mean, wouldn't it have been nice to see (or at least have a glimpse) the year of stress Chi-Chi was put through during the Saiyan Saga, and all of it with only her father as company and Goku (her one and only) not their to comfort her? It would make it easier to sympathize with her objection to Gohan going to Namek.

2) Anime Filler

This reasoning is obvious for some who have seen both anime and manga. Given Chi-Chi was hardly in the manga, characterizing her in the anime was a kind of tricky with all the filler the anime contains, and Chi-Chi ended up being portrayed in a somewhat... more obsessive light for comedic light, though I do enjoy the caveats to their jokes.

1) Dub

Same reason as above, only to an even greater extreme.


Yamcha is hated because he's just easy to pick on. Toriyama-sensei practically created him to be a punching bag. Oh and because of the B/V fangirls. They want to make their little pairing to look as glamorous as possible.

I still think she's the stereotypical authoritarian parent, rather than the "abusive" parents fans make her out to be.

I think the "stereotypical overbearing shonen mother" is a more accurate way to Chi-Chi's portrayal. When I think stereotypical authoritarian parent, I think Lois from Malcom in the Middle.

[garnetjester]

I don't get it at all either. I've always thought Yamcha was a great character, but that maybe comes from the fact that I watched Dragon Ball before I watched DBZ, so maybe that helped me get to know him more as a side character and grow fond of him as opposed to just seeing him a few times in DBZ always getting beaten. In any case, I feel the problem is maybe that people like to pick on him because they think he's cocky but too weak to back it up (but they seem to be all over Vegeta who is admittedly a jerk, for some reason). And the womanizing thing seems like such a strange thing to cling to as obsessively as his haters do... so he cheated on Bulma, yeah, that was bad, but is that a reason to completely hate him beyond belief? I don't think so. I genuinely like Yamcha, he was hilarious in Dragon Ball and I like how he's probably the most normal character in DBZ without counting Krillin, he's even aware of his short comings and makes fun of himself a bit, I think he's pretty cool.

And about Chi chi, this one I really can't wrap my head around. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of her, she just reminds me so much of my mother, but now that I re watched the series as a grown up I love her so much! She's really funny, and I feel like a lot of people don't understand that this strict part of her personality was obviously played up for laughs when paired with Goku's easy going (and even irresponsible) nature.
Everyone loves to hate her for ignoring Goku when he was wounded after the battle with Vegeta and ran for Gohan instead, but it makes sense for her as a character, imagine being a mom and having your 4 year old son kidnapped by the demon who was trying to take over the world, and when you can finally be reunited with him, he's uncounscious and has been beaten up by some weird aliens. She didn't run to Goku because he knew what he was getting into, and she probably thought it was his fault that Gohan ended up involved in the whole thing, so obviously she was mad at him. It was bad that she didn't even care after he was dead for a year, but honestly she was mad at him for what happened to Gohan, and I guess they worked it out because she was next to Goku the whole time while he recovered in the hospital.
I also feel like people have this huge image of Goku being an amazing hero who can do no wrong, when he was a really crappy husband, all things considered. Chichi was always very devoted to him and their kids and I take issue with what people say of her not ever being in love with Goku and just wanting to get married to whoever, because I think it was very obvious that she really loved him, not so much the other way around.
And really, what mom would've wanted their son who was still a child to go out and fight and probably get killed for the sake of the Earth or whatever? and even then, consider how much she changed after Goku died, being serious about training Goten to become strong enough to be able to protect the Earth in his father's place.

Also, people complain that Chichi forced Gohan to become a scholar, when it was always obvious that he was a bookworm ever since he was a little kid. He even stopped training completely after Cell was defeated, and I think he did so because he preferred to study.

Anyway, I love Chichi, and she's one of my favorite characters, I just don't understand all the hate she gets at all. Sure, she has a lot of flaws, but all of Toriyama's characters do. Chichi is an overprotecting mother bear, Bulma can be shallow and bossy, Goku is super irresponsible, Vegeta is a jerk etc. That's what makes them all the more lovable.

[MediaFanGirl93]

Think about it we almost don't get to see Chi-Chi's point of view on things. It's always about what Goku and Z-Senshi view as important. I mean, wouldn't it have been nice to see (or at least have a glimpse) the year of stress Chi-Chi was put through during the Saiyan Saga, and all of it with only her father as company and Goku (her one and only) not their to comfort her? It would make it easier to sympathize with her objection to Gohan going to Namek.

I still think she's the stereotypical authoritarian parent, rather than the "abusive" parents fans make her out to be.

I think the "stereotypical overbearing shonen mother" is a more accurate way to Chi-Chi's portrayal. When I think stereotypical authoritarian parent, I think Lois from Malcom in the Middle.

That may be the reason why fans complain about how protective she was when she got angry at Gohan for wanting to leave to go to Namek, when she was right to be upset at that moment. And yes, I do agree with Chi-Chi being an overbearing shonen mama because Lois from Malcolm in the Middle is far worse than Chi-Chi lol. I also agree with how Yamcha is an easy target because of how Toriyama made him to be a butt monkey. I mean, every time I think of how Yamcha is treated on the show, I think of Meg Griffin from Family Guy, because they both serve that purpose on the show.

(but they seem to be all over Vegeta who is admittedly a jerk, for some reason).

Presumably because Vegeta's a saiyan who has a lot of power to back up his arrogance and rude attitude (despite him losing because of his arrogance as well), and Yamcha's a human being with no superpowers (no offense). Also, I think Yamcha cheating on Bulma is supposed to be a dub thing, because he's shown to be outright terrified of women.

[thatdbzguy]

I very rarely ever see actual hate towards Yamcha. Like Krillin, people just like to poke fun at him for his shortcomings.

As for Chi-Chi, filler probably plays a big part in that.

[Kid Buu]

All my jokes aside I like Yamcha, I just find him one of the more "human" characters in the shows in the sense he just seems more like a believable person than the other senshi. For example, compare his character arc to Tenshinhan's. Yamcha drops the Desert Bandit stuff because he got a rich girlfriend and doesn't need to thief anymore, while Tenshinhan just stops being an assassin because some random dude told him to. I definitely think Yamcha's at least sounds somewhat believable. The overall problem is that the dude is a gag character for bad luck. Case in point:

21st Budokai: Battles Jackie Chun in the first round, the winner of the tournament
22nd Budokai: Battles Tenshinhan in the first round, the winner of the tournament
23rd Budokai: Battles the God of Earth in the first round, and it was still a really entertaining match.
Saiyan Arc: Beats up a Saibaman almost as easily as Tenshinhan did. Only thing is Vegeta killed Tenshinhan's Saibaman, while Yamcha's jumped on him and kamikazed.
Android Arc: Is first found by Androids and impaled, could have happened to anyone really. Even Goku and Piccolo, as Goku was still in base form and Toriyama hadn't retconned Gero to be weaker than Piccolo yet.

But I wouldn't say the guy has never had a shining moment. After all he saved Goku from Boss Rabbits men, saved Bulma from Oozaru Goku, found Baba's location for everyone, beat The Invisible Man, and has two signature techniques. A lot of people dismiss his fight with the Invisible Man because he help, but he was initially going to win the fight through sensing the Invisible Man's vibrations. It was only after Baba started singing did he require help.

Not to mention the motherfucker is voiced Tōru Furuya of all people! Funny thing is, he also voices Tuxedo Kamen in the Sailor Moon series, where plays a similar role.

P.S Both Malcolm's Mother and Chi-Chi are good people.

[ABED]

garnetjester, she shows no concern for Goku. Even if she thinks he can handle it, he's still broken and her husband. She also blames him. She's completely irrational. I get that a child should take precedent over a spouce, but she shows no concern.

Another beef with her is I don't think she really loved Goku. She was in love with the idea of love. Think about it, all of her ideas about relationships were something she read or was told about. She constantly said, "that's what couples do," or something akin to that. No one twisted her arm to marry Goku. She knew who he was, and yet she looks down on him for being a fighter.

As for Yamcha, he's a punching bag, but I find that endearing.

[DBZAOTA482]

P.S Both Malcolm's Mother and Chi-Chi are good people.

I know Malcom's Mother isn't a bad person but she can be quite mean (in fact, cold even) on more than one occasion.

She knew who he was, and yet she looks down on him for being a fighter.

Really? How so considering his strength was partly why she wanted to be with him?

[Kid Buu]

First time I saw Malcolm I HATED Louis, but when I rewatched it I loved her (and Hal) so much. Just a great series all-around.

[ABED]

She knew who he was, and yet she looks down on him for being a fighter.

Really? How so considering his strength was partly why she wanted to be with him?

Which is something she seems to forget as soon as Gohan was born.

[MediaFanGirl93]

garnetjester, she shows no concern for Goku. Even if she thinks he can handle it, he's still broken and her husband. She also blames him. She's completely irrational. I get that a child should take precedent over a spouce, but she shows no concern.

You're the fifth person I've seen who mentions that scene. Man, this is what TV Tropes calls "Never Live It Down". I think the reason why she blamed Goku is because the others didn't tell her the real truth about what happened. My theory. That whole scene was played for laughs, and we were supposed to make fun of Chi-Chi for being irrational, not sympathize with her or take her side. While fans have every right to judge Chi-chi for that scene, I find it annoying how they ignore all the good things she does, and only cite this scene, when it was the only occurrence of that.

I also feel like people have this huge image of Goku being an amazing hero who can do no wrong, when he was a really crappy husband, all things considered.

I've seen fans point out Goku's flaws, and he's not treated like a saint. It's Bulma and Vegeta who fans whitewash.

[ABED]

garnetjester, she shows no concern for Goku. Even if she thinks he can handle it, he's still broken and her husband. She also blames him. She's completely irrational. I get that a child should take precedent over a spouce, but she shows no concern.

You're the fifth person I've seen who mentions that scene. Man, this is what TV Tropes calls "Never Live It Down". I think the reason why she blamed Goku is because the others didn't tell her the real truth about what happened. My theory. That whole scene was played for laughs, and we were supposed to make fun of Chi-Chi for being irrational, not sympathize with her or take her side. While fans have every right to judge Chi-chi for that scene, I find it annoying how they ignore all the good things she does, and only cite this scene, when it was the only occurrence of that.

I also feel like people have this huge image of Goku being an amazing hero who can do no wrong, when he was a really crappy husband, all things considered.

I've seen fans point out Goku's flaws, and he's not treated like a saint. It's Bulma and Vegeta who fans whitewash.

Chichi/Goku's entire relationship is played for laughs.

Goku is a crappy husband, I'm not denying that. There's no defense for it, but he does care for people, he's just not particularly romantic. I agree that Goku's negatives are pointed out plenty of times. Vegeta's flaws are glaring, I don't know if they're whitewashed.

[garnetjester]

garnetjester, she shows no concern for Goku. Even if she thinks he can handle it, he's still broken and her husband. She also blames him. She's completely irrational. I get that a child should take precedent over a spouce, but she shows no concern.

Another beef with her is I don't think she really loved Goku. She was in love with the idea of love. Think about it, all of her ideas about relationships were something she read or was told about. She constantly said, "that's what couples do," or something akin to that. No one twisted her arm to marry Goku. She knew who he was, and yet she looks down on him for being a fighter.

As for Yamcha, he's a punching bag, but I find that endearing.

I agree that it was a bad thing to do, all things considered, I'm not defending her behavior regarding Goku in that specific moment, but trying to see it from her point of view. Goku had nothing to do with Gohan's involvement in this particular fight (it's the only time he didn't too, probably) which made her behavior all the worse, but she thought it was his doing and that's why she was mad.

But every other time in the show she's always shown that she really cares about Goku. Like when she was devastated when he died in the Cell games or when she meets him again when he revives, and when he goes back to the afterlife etc. Sure, their whole relationship doesn't make a lot of sense, she was a child who was dreaming of a romance and he was Goku, and I think she knew what she was getting into when she married Goku, I don't think she has ever looked down on Goku for being a fighter at all, she just STRONGLY disagreed with getting their son involved in such a dangerous thing, but she never said anything bad about Goku being a fighter, and she was actually rather proud of him (and in the Majin Buu arc we also see how proud she is of her children for being fighters as well).

And in any case, I don't understand why she gets the short end of the stick in the whole "love" conversation when Goku never even said anything remotely loving to her in the entire series at all. If she was in love with the idea of marriage and didn't really love Goku then maybe he was in love with the idea of a permanent cook and didn't love her either

Jokes aside, I think she was a very romantic kid but she obviously had a big crush on Goku and in my opinion, there is more evidence in favor of her loving him than not, even considering that post-Vegeta incident, and if she didn't love him she could've left him anyway, I mean, it's not like he was the breadwinner in their house or whatever, she stayed and waited for him always because she obviously loved him a lot imo.

ETA:

I've seen fans point out Goku's flaws, and he's not treated like a saint. It's Bulma and Vegeta who fans whitewash.

I meant in their relationship. I always see people bitching about how Chichi was horrible because she wasn't in love with Goku and forced him to marry her, but I've never read anyone pointing out that Goku was not exactly great husband material anyway.

[ABED]

Chichi changes a lot by the Majin Buu arc, probably because of Goku's death. I wish that Chichi was the one we saw at the beginning of Z.

Jokes aside, I think she was a very romantic kid but she obviously had a big crush on Goku and in my opinion, there is more evidence in favor of her loving him than not, even considering that post-Vegeta incident, and if she didn't love him she could've left him anyway, I mean, it's not like he was the breadwinner in their house or whatever, she stayed and waited for him always because she obviously loved him a lot imo.

She's a traditionalist, I doubt she would leave him. She definitely cared for him, but it wasn't a romantic relationship by any stretch.

[garnetjester]

Chichi changes a lot by the Majin Buu arc, probably because of Goku's death. I wish that Chichi was the one we saw at the beginning of Z.

I agree, but I think that change is also really cool as character development, and perhaps we wouldn't appreciate it as much without the prior Chichi to compare

In any case, there's probably no romance at all in their relationship ever because of Toriyama's aversion of it.

[DBZAOTA482]

She knew who he was, and yet she looks down on him for being a fighter.

Really? How so considering his strength was partly why she wanted to be with him?

Which is something she seems to forget as soon as Gohan was born.

So basically you're saying:

Settling down to raise family = "OMG fighting is for fags"?

Here you are calling a fictional character is irrational but what you're saying isn't making a lick of sense.

I meant in their relationship. I always see people bitching about how Chichi was horrible because she wasn't in love with Goku and forced him to marry her, but I've never read anyone pointing out that Goku was not exactly great husband material anyway.

You're going to the wrong places.

[Vice]

Yamcha - treated like a weak joke even in canon.

Chi-Chi - shrill of a woman who's portrayed as nag personified.

Not hard to see why these two aren't popular with the fandom.

[RandomGuy96]

Toriyama himself considers Yamcha a joke. When Yamcha's voice actor asked Toriyama why the character was getting such shitty treatment, Toriyama said "come on, Yamcha's a cheater!" and laughed.

[Gokuden]

Yamucha is one of my favorite characters, I feel the need to say that he gets shafted most of the time. Same thing goes for Vegeta.
Yamucha has so much potential, is a good height, and is pretty strong for a hume, but then the other alien Tien gets most of the screen time.
Maybe Akira doesn't like pretty cheating badboys.

[RandomGuy96]

VEGETA gets shafted!?