Broli Galaxy Destruction Plot Hole

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Herms
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by Herms » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:11 am

Alright, so I re-watched the darn movie. Here's all the relevant quotes I could find. I probably should have written down time codes. Oh well.
So...it seems a little inconsistent. The narrator at the start just describes the Southern Galaxy as having "fallen under Super Saiyan attack". But later, Goku refers to Broli as having "destroyed" the Southern Galaxy, and Kaio at the start says "at this rate even my Northern Galaxy will be destroyed", implying the Southern Galaxy has been destroyed, or will be destroyed soon. Then when Paragus outlines his plan for universal domination, he says his empire would include the North, East, and West Galaxies...but conspicuously fails to mention the South Galaxy, implying it's not there to be ruled any more.

On the other hand, Paragus describes the Legendary Super Saiyan as "wreaking havoc all over an area of the Southern Galaxy", while Kaio tells Goku that the Legendary Super Saiyan has "already finished tearing up the Southern Galaxy". Most importantly, after telling Goku this, Kaio then instructs him to "go check the Southern Galaxy". At which point Goku teleports to a planet filled with ruins. So even if the Southern Galaxy has been "destroyed" in some sense, at least part of it is still there.

On that note, after Goku thinks to himself that Broli is the one who "destroyed" the Southern Galaxy, he shortly thereafter semi-repeats himself, saying that Broli is the Super Saiyan who "ran riot through" the Southern Galaxy. So it seems like all this makes the most sense if we treat "destroy" in this context as meaning that Broli attacked/laid waste/etc the Southern Galaxy. That is, he just went from planet to planet destroying the civilizations there, leaving ruined planets like the one Goku visits for a bit. The only thing that seems to indicate that he literally wiped it out completely is the opening shot of the spiral galaxy thingy dissolving into blackness, but this doesn't jibe too well with what we see/are told throughout the rest of the movie.

There's no line flat-out saying that New Planet Vegeta is in the Southern Galaxy. But Paragus at one point says that his true plan is to set up his base on "Earth, in the Northern Galaxy", implying that New Planet Vegeta is somewhere outside the Nouthern Galaxy. And after Paragus tells Vegeta that the Legendary Super Saiyan is "wrecking havoc" through that portion of the Southern Galaxy, he adds that "at his pace, even the New Planet Vegeta that we worked to establish will fall to the Legendary Super Saiyan…" Which could be taken to mean that New Planet Vegeta is also in the Southern Galaxy. Or it could just mean that Paragus is (pretending to be) concerned that once the Legendary Super Saiyan is finished with the Southern Galaxy, he'll move on to wherever New Planet Vegeta is, just as Kaio is concerned that his own Northern Galaxy is going to come under attack next. Anyway, I guess it ultimately doesn't matter too much one way or the other in regards to the big question at hand, since there's still that one ruined planet Goku visits which is definitely supposed to be in the Southern Galaxy. So we know there's actually at least a planet or two left there, whether or not New Planet Vegeta is one of them.

Also, a bit more on what the movie means by "destroy": it's said that Broli "attacked" Planet Shamo, after which its inhabitants were moved to New Planet Vegeta. But Planet Shamo is clearly still physically there, since we see Broli actually blow it up midway through the movie. This seems consistent with the idea that Broli went around attacking planets by destroying the cities/civilizations on them, rather than blowing them up Freeza-style. This is still consistent with Paragus omitting the Southern Galaxy from his list of stuff his big fancy empire will include; even if the Southern Galaxy is still around, it's now basically uninhabited (a ghost galaxy!), so there's not really anything to "rule".
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:17 am

How can he possibly have enough time on his hands and/or be fast enough to travel in between all of these planets and wreck them? To such an extent that Kaio fears that he may even finish the South Galaxy and head for the north one? Are DBZ galaxies just tiny as hell?
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by Herms » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:22 am

Well, if he's only bothering with inhabited planets, that would probably simplify things a bunch. We're not really told what proportion of planets in DB are inhabited, but for all we know that may only be, say, a couple hundred per galaxy. Which I guess would make the main question how Broli gets from planet to planet. But then, this is the same movie where Vegeta and co. just hop into a spaceship and head to New Planet Vegeta without a second thought, or any food besides packed lunches. Galactic travel seems really darn easy in the film.

We do see that flashback of kid/teen/younger adult Broli blowing up cities and whatnot, so he could have been picking off planets in the South Galaxy for a long time. It does make Kaio look kind of stupid for only really getting concerned about it at the last minute though.
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:42 am

Yeah, we're told in the Saiyan Arc that it would take a little less than 4,500 years to get from Earth to Namek using Capsule Corporation's best technology. Bluma and the gang get there in about a month using the Namekian ship, and Vegeta's gets there in even less time using an indirect route. Add onto that, the ship Dr. Brief built from Goku's old attack ball gets there in get 6 days. So, it seems Broli and Paragus just have absurdly fast ships that can allow them to wreak havoc on plenty of inhabited planets with intelligent life.

Also, Jaco has him talking about inhabited planets. He saying that the Galactic Patrol protects the peace of the galaxy with 38 people because there aren't very many intelligent life forms in the...and never finishes his sentence. I'm assuming it's only the (north) galaxy seeing how they are always using that word and Earth is in the north one. Could be the same for the rest of the galaxies as well. LOTS of planets, plenty with life, but not many with intelligent life via comparison.
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:47 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Are you trying to insist that DB galaxys are thousands of times smaller than ours, even though there's only four of them? Because it'd still be far too large. FAAAAAR too huge for Broly to even cross the whole thing once in his lifetime.
Broli & Paragus seem to have a very fast spaceship, and Goku's spaceship could travel from Earth (North Galaxy) to Namek (some other galaxy) in less than a week. So, if they have an even faster spaceship, and they are traveling in many planets per day, and have been doing that for years, then sure, I can see it happening.
Broly is at best FP Perfect Cell level here. If FP Perfect Cell could destroy the sun (a relatively small star), then SPC being able to do so wouldn't be impressive, and he would've said "I have enough power to destroy the solar system!" during his first Kamehameha against SS2 Gohan.
Cell's impressive feat (or at least, almost became a feat) was that he could destroy the Solar System with one blast, not the Sun. The Sun's explosion alone will only destroy the planets up to Earth if I recall correctly, not the whole Solar System, so assuming that Cell was targeting the Sun, Cell's Kamehameha would make the Sun's explosion great enough to destroy the whole Solar System.
Furthermore, he should be restricted to the blue haired RSS form, who Goku could go toe to toe with in his base form. So can base Goku destroy stars now?
And I'll repeat again what I've repeated in other posts: Toei logic ≠ Normal logic. Base Goku could fight with SS Broli, while SS Broli wasn't affected at all from SS Vegeta's hits. This doesn't make base Goku stronger than SS Vegeta.
Is that ever shown or implied?
Dunno, but it's possible.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Broly's entire existence is a plot hole
Broli just exists in an alternative dimension, since Toriyama said that the movies take place in (a) different dimension(s).
Herms wrote:We do see that flashback of kid/teen/younger adult Broli blowing up cities and whatnot, so he could have been picking off planets in the South Galaxy for a long time. It does make Kaio look kind of stupid for only really getting concerned about it at the last minute though.
Given to Broli's appearance, he must be somewhere between 16 & 19 years old (based on Goku's development, who has the same age as Broli). So, the flashback should take place less than 15 years before the events of the movie, and 15 years is a very short time in Kaio's thousands of years lifetime.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by Saiyatonian » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:47 am

So King Kai JUST realized that the South Galaxy was being destroyed in the beginning of the movie (assuming Broly has been destroying the galaxy for years.) Even then, that's a small amount of time for an entire galaxy to be destroyed, since I'm assuming Broly's about the same age as Goku. Did Broly just stay in one place and fire random ki blasts? Then how would he know the placement of the planets? Did Broly race across the galaxy at Silver Surfer levels of speed and destroy planets as he pleased?

I swear if we pick apart all the plot holes of that movie, we'll be here all day.
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by mAcChaos » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 am

If they said the galaxy is destroyed then he destroyed it. Doesn't matter how it makes sense in real life physics. They even show it disintegrating into blackness. If they didn't want us to think he did it they wouldn't have showed that, even if it doesn't make sense when you think about it from a real life standpoint.
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:36 am

mAcChaos wrote:If they said the galaxy is destroyed then he destroyed it. Doesn't matter how it makes sense in real life physics. They even show it disintegrating into blackness. If they didn't want us to think he did it they wouldn't have showed that, even if it doesn't make sense when you think about it from a real life standpoint.
Practically nothing about that movie makes sense, even internally. It's best not to even think about it.
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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by Nazi Cola » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:59 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:And I'll repeat again what I've repeated in other posts: Toei logic ≠ Normal logic. Base Goku could fight with SS Broli, while SS Broli wasn't affected at all from SS Vegeta's hits. This doesn't make base Goku stronger than SS Vegeta.
Not exactly. Close to the end of their fight, Broly stopped and began what can be assumed to be a power-up, as Goku thereafter claims:

Image

So it would stand to reason that Broly was restricted to a point where Base Goku could put up a fight, and then powered up to where he was when he trashed the South Galaxy, which Goku had sensed earlier as residual ki.

Image
Image
Image

Essentially: RSSjin Broly (powered up, what Goku sensed/Kaio surmised) > SSjin Goku > RSSjin Broly (heavily suppressed) ~ Base Goku
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by TenshiGokuu » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:11 am

brolly is a galaxy buster because the other dub just messed with people heads when king kai said that the south galaxy has fallen under broly attack. it suppost to be meant that whole word FALLEN was a verb for pretty much the same thing is destroyed, BAM! or defeated, sorta like that.
And brolly attack was adjective in that sense the described the aftermath of galaxy destruction.
simple as you would say like this "the galaxy extinction came from the brolly attack" not "the brolly attack destroyed the galaxy"

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Re: Brolly galxy bursting plot hole ..

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:12 am

TenshiGokuu wrote:brolly is a galaxy buster because the other dub just messed with people heads when king kai said that the south galaxy has fallen under broly attack. it suppost to be meant that whole word FALLEN was a verb for pretty much the same thing is destroyed, BAM! or defeated, sorta like that.
And brolly attack was adjective in that sense the described the aftermath of galaxy destruction.
simple as you would say like this "the galaxy extinction came from the brolly attack" not "the brolly attack destroyed the galaxy"
So Broly destroys the South Galaxy in the intro...yet the their whole fight takes place in the South Galaxy.

See the problem there?
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Re: Broli Galaxy Destruction Plot Hole

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:42 pm

If you look at the quotes Herms posted, three say he attacked it/rampaged through it, 1 says it was outright destroyed, 2 say it is in the process of or was destroyed/ravaged, and one just implies that there's nothing left there worth to be in Paragus' empire.

When we see Goku investigate a planet there there are a bunch of wrecked buildings but there is a huge moon/planet in the sky and stars, and later those little aliens (forget what they're called) say that Broly attacked their planet and forced them to leave it, although it is still intact until Broly actually destroys it.

So if we have to try to reconcile all of this, he probably outright destroyed some planets and just wrecked the surface/civilization of others, but that still leaves the question of how he could get to all of them so fast, why Kaio didn't notice earlier, what the deal was with that opening animation of the galaxy fading out (someone mentioned that the fact it was spinning meant that it took place over millions of years but that obviously makes no sense)... like I said, it's a mess.
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