Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this debate.

[penguintruth]

I can't help but noticing that this thread which promised to "end the debate" has gone on for 7 pages worth of debate...

Well, it's silly for anybody to start a topic that promises to end any debate to begin with.

[ABED]

Yeah, but without someway to get to other planets, he's not a universal threat, which is what I was responding to in your post. He's obviously a threat to Earth.

You're splitting hairs, besides I'm sure Cell could find some way to get to other planets, even if only slowly.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yeah, but without someway to get to other planets, he's not a universal threat, which is what I was responding to in your post. He's obviously a threat to Earth.

You're splitting hairs, besides I'm sure Cell could find some way to get to other planets, even if only slowly.

And he can... he learned Shukan Ido when he became got that zenkai.

[FrogTrigger]

I think the person who meant Cell was a solar system buster meant that he could do it in one shot, not systematically.

That's what I'm guessing.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah, but without someway to get to other planets, he's not a universal threat, which is what I was responding to in your post. He's obviously a threat to Earth.

You're splitting hairs, besides I'm sure Cell could find some way to get to other planets, even if only slowly.

And he can... he learned Shukan Ido when he became got that zenkai.

If you had read the conversation that we were having, you would know that we were referring to before he received his near-death power-up. At that point, he has no method of interplanetary travel besides floating through space.

[thatdbzguy]

rereboy is right. Absolutely nothing led up to Gohan's sudden behavior in the Cell Games, hence why it's OOC.

[thatdbzguy]

I can't help but noticing that this thread which promised to "end the debate" has gone on for 7 pages worth of debate...

The problem here is that there shouldn't even be a debate. Gohan was objectively OOC. He contradicted everything about his personality, and there was no build up at all for this change.

Anyone who honestly thinks that Gohan wasn't OOC is not looking at the big picture.

[rereboy]

I can't help but noticing that this thread which promised to "end the debate" has gone on for 7 pages worth of debate...

The problem here is that there shouldn't even be a debate. Gohan was objectively OOC. He contradicted everything about his personality, and there was no build up at all for this change.

Anyone who honestly thinks that Gohan wasn't OOC is not looking at the big picture.

If fans feel its natural for Gohan to develop in that way, its normal for them to be OK with not having any leading up to it.

[thatdbzguy]

If fans feel its natural for Gohan to develop in that way, its normal for them to be OK with not having any leading up to it.

That's a contradiction, though. How is it natural if there's absolutely no build up?

[rereboy]

If fans feel its natural for Gohan to develop in that way, its normal for them to be OK with not having any leading up to it.

That's a contradiction, though. How is it natural if there's absolutely no build up?

No, its not.

There are three possibilities:

- a fan may feel that its a natural progression for a character that doesn't like fighting and that is starting to grow up and understand better the pressures of responsibility and as such what came before and what is present in the Cell games is enough;

- a fan may feel that its a possible progression for the character, but one that needs exposition or some leading up to it so it doesn't feel inconsistent with what came before; or

- a fan may disagree with that progression for the character.

[thatdbzguy]

- a fan may feel that its a natural progression for a character that doesn't like fighting and that is starting to grow up and understand better the pressures of responsibility and as such what came before and what is present in the Cell games is enough;

Except nothing that could have hinted at his behavior at the Cell Games ever came before.

[rereboy]

- a fan may feel that its a natural progression for a character that doesn't like fighting and that is starting to grow up and understand better the pressures of responsibility and as such what came before and what is present in the Cell games is enough;

Except nothing that could have hinted at his behavior at the Cell Games ever came before.

You obviously didn't understand what I was trying to say at all.

If a fan feels its natural for a character like Gohan to naturally become like he was in the Cell games just because he's now older, then no hint of the development is actually needed in his opinion.

[ABED]

You obviously didn't understand what I was trying to say at all.

If a fan feels its natural for a character like Gohan to naturally become like he was in the Cell games just because he's now older, then no hint of the development is actually needed in his opinion.

I know schools teach that touchy feely, there are no wrong opinions, but I don't ascribe to that, in this case it's wrong. Something like that needs to be developed, otherwise it's bad storytelling. He can enjoy it, that's fine.

[thatdbzguy]

I know schools teach that touchy feely, there are no wrong opinions, but I don't ascribe to that, in this case it's wrong. Something like that needs to be developed, otherwise it's bad storytelling. He can enjoy it, that's fine.

DBZ in general has bad storytelling, so I'm not sure why we're singling out a single moment of bad storytelling.

[ABED]

I know schools teach that touchy feely, there are no wrong opinions, but I don't ascribe to that, in this case it's wrong. Something like that needs to be developed, otherwise it's bad storytelling. He can enjoy it, that's fine.

DBZ in general has bad storytelling, so I'm not sure why we're singling out a single moment of bad storytelling.

Go away with that. If you don't like the series, get off the message board. Why spend so much time dwelling on something you hate.

It has plenty of really good storytelling moments, e.g. the battle against Vegeta.

[thatdbzguy]

I know schools teach that touchy feely, there are no wrong opinions, but I don't ascribe to that, in this case it's wrong. Something like that needs to be developed, otherwise it's bad storytelling. He can enjoy it, that's fine.

DBZ in general has bad storytelling, so I'm not sure why we're singling out a single moment of bad storytelling.

Go away with that. If you don't like the series, get off the message board. Why spend so much time dwelling on something you hate.

It has plenty of really good storytelling moments, e.g. the battle against Vegeta.

Thinking DBZ is bad =/= Not liking it.

[Godo]

I am not shy to the thought of Dragonball having its moments with bad writing. Even Toriyama mentions that he at times just came up with things at the spot when cornered regarding the plot.
But overall, its writing is (IMO) acceptable (for a Shônen series, that is).

Regarding this topic, I'd see Gohan's moment as similar as Goku's moment against Piccolo Jr. (when he decided to spare his life, after he had went on a killing spree since the beginning of Dragonball).
Both trained, both matured, both grew up.
The difference between the two moments would be that Goku vocally gave an explanation as to why he spared Piccolo's life, although I can't remember the dialogue right now.

[rereboy]

I know schools teach that touchy feely, there are no wrong opinions, but I don't ascribe to that, in this case it's wrong. Something like that needs to be developed, otherwise it's bad storytelling. He can enjoy it, that's fine.

Bad storytelling is a subjective notion. There's nothing really wrong or right about it. Its just bad or good depending on the opinion of the people being asked.

The only thing actually wrong is believing that things inherently subjective regarding entertainment can be wrong or right, like you seem to be doing right now.

Also, mentioning school to me is kind of ineffective since I'm practically 30 years old so I finished school a long time ago. Not to mention that I'm talking about entertainment where subjective views are the whole point.

Personally, I actually agree that there is a need for some more exposition regarding Gohan's behavior, but I don't actually think that people that think otherwise are wrong just because they have a different viewpoint. There's nothing wrong, for example, in believing that the most natural development for Gohan now that he is older would be to feel responsibility more intensely and act like he did in the Cell games and, as such, not feeling the need for more exposition than what we got. I just happen to have another viewpoint.

Thinking DBZ is bad =/= Not liking it.

No, its not. If you like it, you think its good for you. There is no such thing as objectively good. I can like Dragon Ball and dislike The Godfather, for example, and I'm not wrong because its all subjective. We can't decide what's good and what's bad for other people, its their call, their opinion, so its pointless to say that something like that is objectively good or not, it can only be subjectively good.

[thatdbzguy]

No, its not. If you like it, you think its good for you. There is no such thing as objectively good. I can like Dragon Ball and dislike The Godfather, for example, and I'm not wrong because its all subjective. We can't decide what's good and what's bad for other people, its their call, their opinion, so its pointless to say that something like that is objectively good or not, it can only be subjectively good.

So you're saying that it's wrong for someone to enjoy something but think it's bad at the same time?

[Kid Buu]

Well I think DBZ is bad, but that's why I like it. There's just something fun about turning my brain off and watching two dudes punch each other though mountains.