Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Question to power level obsessed folks. Seemingly inconsequential, but it's got me curious. Exactly what percentage of power was Freeza using before he went buff? I'd always thought he used his full base power ("about 70%") right after he was hit with the x20 Kamehameha, but the series seems to imply otherwise. First of all, SS Goku easily beats up Freeza after the Genki-Dama hits. He even tanks a barrage of blasts from him without flinching. Freeza, after seeing this, says that if he could just land one Death Beam Goku would be sorry, but when he does it inflicts only a little damage (gives Goku a bloody lip and budges his head).

Spoiler:

Soon after that, Freeza launches another blast at Goku, and unlike the last barrage, which did next to nothing, this one launches him a good distance and seems to hurt. He then claims to only be using about 70% of his power there. Which suggests he was using less at every occasion before that, because Goku COULD tank his last attack, but not this one.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

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But... I don't think that makes a lot of sense, because why would Freeza still be holding back in any of these situations? Why would he be holding back power when hit by the Genki-Dama, which he himself said very nearly killed him? Unless he WASN'T holding back, that last blast was just amplified beyond his normal power, and the level it was amplified to off of his 50% power just so happened to be equivalent to be about 70% of his full power? But I don't think that was implied.

70% Freeza's feat here also suggests that Goku was suppressed up until Freeza went 100%... though a lot of comments from Freeza with that in mind are just even more confusing.

[Kaboom]

I figured we were meant to assume he stayed at around 50% until he said otherwise. Maybe it takes more effort for him to use more than that, and especially to maintain it.

[Vertical]

I always thought Freeza went beyond 50% to block the Kamehameha because afterwards Goku notes that Freeza wasn't bluffing [about using less than his full power].

As for the blast blowing Goku away... it seems to be a Kiai... which are [nearly?] always shown to knock people away.

[Saiga]

I had also thought he was using 70% when he blocked the Kamehameha, Goku's dialogue seems to indicate he powered up. However, those pages make it sound like he rose to 70% for that particular attack.

I guess Freeza could have been using 70% the whole time and just put more into that attack. It would seem weird to me if Freeza is holding back for so long, finally uses 70%, sees that it is effective and then immediately decides to use 100%. I think if he had only just used 70% there that he might try and see how he fares with 70%.

[Vertical]

However, those pages make it sound like he rose to 70% for that particular attack.

Or... that he's implying he still has more to give... and is about to power up.

[Kid Buu]

What power levels do you guys have Guldo/Kuririn/Gohan for that fight? Just curious.

[RandomGuy96]

What power levels do you guys have Guldo/Kuririn/Gohan for that fight? Just curious.

Gohan- 14,000
Krillin- 13,000

Both of those levels come from the Daizenshuu. As for Guldo:

Guldo- 10,000

I like him here. He's much weaker than them, but not one shot fodder or anything like that. He also needs to be pretty strong to have Ginyu Force-tier psychic powers. If your power is too low, your psychic attacks just don't work, as Nappa showed us. I figure he should at least be able to stun the likes of Recoome and co, who I only have as 3.6-4 times stronger than him.

[xmysticgohanx]

Kaboom why do you have post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks weaker than SSJ3 Goku when Goku told fat Buu a stronger fighter will meet him which implys pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku?

[Kaboom]

Kaboom why do you have post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks weaker than SSJ3 Goku when Goku told fat Buu a stronger fighter will meet him which implies pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku?

Two main things to say about that.

1) Goku never actually said that to Boo.
2) SSJ Gotenks was never actually shown stronger than anyone else, so you can really place him almost wherever you want.

[Saiga]

Kaboom why do you have post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks weaker than SSJ3 Goku when Goku told fat Buu a stronger fighter will meet him which implies pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku?

Two main things to say about that.

1) Goku never actually said that to Boo.

What are you talking about? He definitely said that. Granted, I couldn't find the actual quote in the strength checker but I assume that's an oversight on Herms' part, since he says here:

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”

[Kaboom]

Yeah, that's him talking to Piccolo. But he never actually said that to Boo. If he had... well, it would be in the Strength Checker.

Either way, my policy is "a claim or prediction CAN be taken as fact if uncontradicted, but only MUST be taken as fact if it's actually proven." And SSJ Gotenks never actually demonstrated superiority to Boo or anyone else. Nobody even verbally confirmed it, even with Gotenks and his power right in front of them. That's a little odd if you ask me.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Just to back up Kaboom here, I don't know about the Japanese version, but Viz doesn't have Goku say anything about Gotenks' strength at that point. He says that the guys they've been looking for will come to them in a few days and then asks them to stop killing just wait until then. When Buu asks about if they are strong or not, he gets ignored. Babidi rants about not waiting and just killing the people, and then Goku just says that the fight would have been fun for Buu and he'll make sure they get chewed out in Hell.

[Vertical]

Because of what Goku said to him, Piccolo expects Gotenks to be superior to SSJ3 Goku. Piccolo only questions Gotenks speed... not his strength. Shouldn't that be enough to confirm that Gotenks is at least close to his expected "superior to SSJ3 Goku"?

[Kaboom]

Shouldn't that be enough to confirm that Gotenks is at least close to his expected "superior to SSJ3 Goku"?

It can be if you want it to. But it doesn't HAVE to be.

[Vertical]

Shouldn't that be enough to confirm that Gotenks is at least close to his expected "superior to SSJ3 Goku"?

It can be if you want it to. But it doesn't HAVE to be.

Then I guess the question becomes; why shouldn't it be?

[Saiga]

Just to back up Kaboom here, I don't know about the Japanese version, but Viz doesn't have Goku say anything about Gotenks' strength at that point. He says that the guys they've been looking for will come to them in a few days and then asks them to stop killing just wait until then. When Buu asks about if they are strong or not, he gets ignored. Babidi rants about not waiting and just killing the people, and then Goku just says that the fight would have been fun for Buu and he'll make sure they get chewed out in Hell.

Yeah, I checked mine as well. So my mistake then.

[Kaboom]

Then I guess the question becomes; why shouldn't it be?

Not really a matter of "should" or "should not." If someone doesn't want to consider Gotenks quite that strong, then they have no problem.

[Vertical]

Then I guess the question becomes; why shouldn't it be?

Not really a matter of "should" or "should not." If someone doesn't want to consider Gotenks quite that strong, then they have no problem.

Is there a way to do that without selectively ignoring situations like the aforementioned, though?

NOTE: Not trying to force a placement argument... I just find it very difficult to place him anywhere else with the manga implications as they are... and would like to understand how others come to their conclusions.

[Herms]

Yeah, that's him talking to Piccolo. But he never actually said that to Boo. If he had... well, it would be in the Strength Checker.

I actually have a note on that with the quote, in Goku's section at least:

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”
Note: Goku actually never told Boo this (apparently he's gone senile in the afterlife).

I guess I forgot to include it in the other places that quote pops up?

[Saiga]

Yeap, because I pulled that from Boo's section and the note wasn't there.