Was the Raditz fight a subtle "tutorial" on Power Levels?

[Flame Dragon]

1) Introduces Power Levels
2) Explains that Ki Attacks increase the base power level of the user for that particular attack
3) Explains how injuries can reduce the user power level
4) Explains how weighted clothes can affect power levels
5) Explains how intense emotions or rage can cause a sudden burst in one's power level.
6) Shows that if the difference in power levels is too high, the higher power can easily tank or dodge a Ki Blast that hasn't increased the user's power level enough
7) Shows that a 10% difference between power levels is the minimum threshold to avoid doing no damage to the enemy (Gohan's headbutt)
8) If someone is taken by surprise, he can still be damaged by someone much weaker than him.


Do you think this fight did a good job at explaining this? Or would you change something to make it more clear?

[Herms]

I feel like half of those things you listed are just generalizations people make based on that one fight, which they then try to apply to the rest of the series with mixed results.

There's really no sign that there are any hard and fast rules to this stuff beyond "higher number=stronger guy".

[Flame Dragon]

I feel like half of those things you listed are just generalizations people make based on that one fight, which they then try to apply to the rest of the series with mixed results.

There's really no sign that there are any hard and fast rules to this stuff beyond "higher number=stronger guy".

Well, yes, there are even some people that think the "Ki Attacks amplify power level" rule applied only to that fight, which sounds kinda silly.

[sekzee]

It is silly, but it's entirely possible:

Goku w/Kaioken x4 and KHH didn't completely eradicate Vegeta.
Goku w/Kaioken x20 and KHH didn't completely eradicate Frieza.
SSJ Goku w/KHH didn't completely eradicate Frieza.
SSJ2 Gohan w/KHH damaged Cell, but didn't completely eradicate him, as it should have.

If you apply the ~2.2x on the KHH (which was later expressed as being nothing when Imperfect Cell performed it against Piccolo), none of these feats make sense. They should all have died a horrible death.

As an example:

Goku: 3,000,000
Goku (KKx20): 60,000,000
Frieza (50%): 60,000,000 (70,000,000 if you believe him to be higher)
Goku (KKx20 + KHH): 132,000,000
Frieza (100%): 120,000,000/140,000,000
SSJ Goku: 150,000,000
SSJ Goku (KHH): 330,000,000

[SaiyajinPrince]

1) Introduces Power Levels
2) Explains that Ki Attacks increase the base power level of the user for that particular attack
3) Explains how injuries can reduce the user power level
4) Explains how weighted clothes can affect power levels
5) Explains how intense emotions or rage can cause a sudden burst in one's power level.
6) Shows that if the difference in power levels is too high, the higher power can easily tank or dodge a Ki Blast that hasn't increased the user's power level enough
7) Shows that a 10% difference between power levels is the minimum threshold to avoid doing no damage to the enemy (Gohan's headbutt)
If someone is taken by surprise, he can still be damaged by someone much weaker than him.


Do you think this fight did a good job at explaining this? Or would you change something to make it more clear?

The truth is I don't they can be damaged even if they are off gaurd. Whether you aware of being attacked or not if you power level is greater then the other opponnet you shouldnt be affected

[sekzee]

If you brace yourself for a blow to a particular part of your body, you are likely to be more prepared and receive less damage.

When ki is what is enhancing the body's natural defenses, it makes sense that those unprepared can be damaged.

[SaiyajinPrince]

If you brace yourself for a blow to a particular part of your body, you are likely to be more prepared and receive less damage.

When ki is what is enhancing the body's natural defenses, it makes sense that those unprepared can be damaged.

While Broly was fixed on Goku's position and unaware, vegeta kicked him in the neck and seemed to be unaffected so i think it has to do with if your power level is stronger

[Kamiccolo9]

If you brace yourself for a blow to a particular part of your body, you are likely to be more prepared and receive less damage.

When ki is what is enhancing the body's natural defenses, it makes sense that those unprepared can be damaged.

While Broly was fixed on Goku's position and unaware, vegeta kicked him in the neck and seemed to be unaffected so i think it has to do with if your power level is stronger

Goku hurt Oozaru Vegeta when he shot him in the eye. Power level isn't everything.

[SaiyajinPrince]

If you brace yourself for a blow to a particular part of your body, you are likely to be more prepared and receive less damage.

When ki is what is enhancing the body's natural defenses, it makes sense that those unprepared can be damaged.

While Broly was fixed on Goku's position and unaware, vegeta kicked him in the neck and seemed to be unaffected so i think it has to do with if your power level is stronger

Goku hurt Oozaru Vegeta when he shot him in the eye. Power level isn't everything.

He shouldn't have gotten hurt though especially if your that dense

[Kamiccolo9]

He shouldn't have gotten hurt though especially if your that dense

What do you mean "he shouldn't have gotten hurt?" The fact is that he did. There's no debate here. Obviously power level isn't the only thing taken into account when dealing with damage from attacks, otherwise Vegeta wouldn't have been hurt by Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

I feel like half of those things you listed are just generalizations people make based on that one fight, which they then try to apply to the rest of the series with mixed results.

There's really no sign that there are any hard and fast rules to this stuff beyond "higher number=stronger guy".

Huh? Every single thing he listed (aside from the "10% gap" thing) is repeatedly used throughout the series. In some cases, like people being able to generate ki blasts beyond their normal power, they're even explicitly emphasized later. Vegeta kicks Cell in the neck full force to no effect. Then he charges a big Final Flash and blasts right through Cell.

While Broly was fixed on Goku's position and unaware, vegeta kicked him in the neck and seemed to be unaffected so i think it has to do with if your power level is stronger

Broly does not and never has mattered. We've repeatedly seen that someone can damage or at least knock around someone when they're caught off guard, even if they're way weaker than the person they're attacking. This is shown quite well in the Freeza battle, where Piccolo sends 50% Freeza flying, despite only possessing like 2% of his strength. And in the Buu Saga, where SS Trunks does the same thing to Fat Buu.

[Captain Sauza]

I feel like half of those things you listed are just generalizations people make based on that one fight, which they then try to apply to the rest of the series with mixed results.

There's really no sign that there are any hard and fast rules to this stuff beyond "higher number=stronger guy".

Huh? Every single thing he listed (aside from the "10% gap" thing) is repeatedly used throughout the series. In some cases, like people being able to generate ki blasts beyond their normal power, they're even explicitly emphasized later. Vegeta kicks Cell in the neck full force to no effect. Then he charges a big Final Flash and blasts right through Cell.

While Broly was fixed on Goku's position and unaware, vegeta kicked him in the neck and seemed to be unaffected so i think it has to do with if your power level is stronger

Broly does not and never has mattered. We've repeatedly seen that someone can damage or at least knock around someone when they're caught off guard, even if they're way weaker than the person they're attacking. This is shown quite well in the Freeza battle, where Piccolo sends 50% Freeza flying, despite only possessing like 2% of his strength. And in the Buu Saga, where SS Trunks does the same thing to Fat Buu.

To bring in another example from DBZ movies to counter the Broly thing, there's the instance of Vegeta sending Metal Cooler flying with a kick to the head in base form while Metal Cooler was about to kill SSJ Goku at that moment after completely overpowering him.

[KameRule]

I see no need for a "tutorial" on power-levels, for they are pretty much one - dimensional entities in the first place

[dbgtFO]

Do you think this fight did a good job at explaining this? Or would you change something to make it more clear?

It didn't establish that characters could also surpress their powers, only Gohan was shown doing this though unintentionally.
When Vegeta and Nappa arrived, suppressing one's power and then increasing it wasn't clearly distinguished from raising one's battle power, when preparing a full power blast.
So I would have done something to that.