Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[UltimateHammerBro]

"Bideru" could be shortened to "Bider", or ya' know, just "Videl"."

I've seen "Biddle".

[GS7X7]

Why doesn't Funimation just come out and say what the deal is with the movie and when (or if ever) it'll actually come to America?

[JulieYBM]

Why doesn't Funimation just come out and say what the deal is with the movie and when (or if ever) it'll actually come to America?

Contractual obligations or FUNimation simply does not have an answer to give.

Does it really matter if the movie comes to the United States? You can import the Blu-ray from Japan. The movie's made back its budget many times over, there's no need to worry about that sort of thing.

[Blade]

The whole point of the debate is over which sort of localization should be done and why; it's not a question of some localization versus no localization. "Birusu", "Birus", "Bills", "Beers", and "Beerus" are all simply different ways of localizing the name, after all. "Some localization always takes place" just strikes me as a weak sauce excuse for poorly done localization.

But in this respect I don't think the use of 'Bills' can be constituted as weak localisation, as unless you're staunchly of the belief that anything other than a direct transliteration of 'Beerus' is non-kosher, it's a fairly faithful romanisation of the word - and has even been used officially in Japan.

As you'll know, when localising there's obviously two primary factors that contribute to the decision making - the phonetic pronunciation of the word in its native language, and its meaning/point of origin. Now that the latter is publicly known, in English 'Beerus' would appear most apt as it satisfies both positions faithfully - it preserves the pronunciation and the pun is language relevant. However, it's worth keeping in mind that the German and English loan-words used to comprise this particular pun are less relevant in other languages, and as such the translator can find themself having to trade off between preserving the pronunciation or its meaning. To me, a faithful translator's most important consideration for adequate localisation has to be to ensure the ease of pronunciation and writing of the original name in the target language. Why bust a nut to go with 'Beerus' when the pun makes no sense, and 'Bills', also a competent phonetic romanisation, is easier to supplant into the native tongue? That's not weak localisation - it's an efficient porting of a foreign word.

[VegettoEX]

All I see is you trying to justify "Bills" when the only justification is "The promotional material being sent out to foreign licensees uses it."

There's nothing difficult about pronouncing "Beerus" in "English". You don't even need to roll your Ls. We have all of those syllables and sounds in our words. "Bills" is no easier to pronounce than "Beerus" and to suggest so is asinine. Even if you ignore the "virus" original pun source, "Beerus" still supplies a pun on "beer" plenty fine - it's literally the first four letters - while still preserving pronunciation. Furthermore, I'm flabbergasted as to how you can classify it as "busting a nut" to get to that spelling when, again, the first four letters are the pun itself in our own language. If anything, it's a cheap cop-out transliteration compared to something like "Tullece".

"Bills" is as weak a localization as as "Tolanks" would be. They're both legitimate transliterations, but they're bonkers nonsense, and quite frankly I think someone should be embarrassed for suggesting otherwise.

That all being said, translation is absolutely an art and not a science. It's just that my art is better than your art. OK, well, Julian's art.

(And hey, if you actually want to talk about other languages than English, by all means do so. But we're not talking about what the German dub is doing, what the Spanish dub is doing, or what the French dub is doing. We're talking on an English-language forum in English to each other about adapting into our own alphabet which we're going to use to converse with each other in English.)

(Also, don't mean for any of that to come off as "mean"... just very firm.)

[dbboxkaifan]

I have 2 questions about BoG:

Was its animation done digitally or hand drawn?
And if it were hand drawn, could they have the 4x3 AR version (full framed pictures) stored somewhere?

[VegettoEX]

I have 2 questions about BoG:

Was its animation done digitally or hand drawn?
And if it were hand drawn, could they have the 4x3 AR version (full framed pictures) stored somewhere?

Both. It was done digitally by hand. I'm not sure what you think animation is / could be in the digital realm...?

There is no reason for them to have created a 4:3 version when it was created for a 16:9 theatrical screening. It would have been widescreen from the start.

[Blade]

But we're not talking about what the German dub is doing, what the Spanish dub is doing,

I actually was referring to its use in the Spanish dub, which in turn started the latest round of debate about the use of the name. I refer you to Page 801.

Ugh, more Bills.

All I see is you trying to justify "Bills" when the only justification is "The promotional material being sent out to foreign licensees uses it."

There's nothing difficult about pronouncing "Beerus" in "English". You don't even need to roll your Ls. We have all of those syllables and sounds in our words. "Bills" is no easier to pronounce than "Beerus" and to suggest so is asinine. Even if you ignore the "virus" original pun source, "Beerus" still supplies a pun on "beer" plenty fine - it's literally the first four letters - while still preserving pronunciation. Furthermore, I'm flabbergasted as to how you can classify it as "busting a nut" to get to that spelling when, again, the first four letters are the pun itself in our own language. If anything, it's a cheap cop-out transliteration compared to something like "Tullece".

"Bills" is as weak a localization as as "Tolanks" would be. They're both legitimate transliterations, but they're bonkers nonsense, and quite frankly I think someone should be embarrassed for suggesting otherwise.

That said, I think it's wrong to pull my arguments out context. If you read my last post, I actually agree that Beerus is the most apt English romanisation, as it preserves both the pronunciation and the pun, the latter is still language relevant - as Trunks also is in English. Beer in Spanish is 'cerveza', whilst 'Bills' is easier to write and pronounce, and still retains the character's original name. What's the problem?

So yeah, I feel no reason to be embarrassed about my opinion.

[dbboxkaifan]

All right thanks Mike.

For example, there's the TMNT of 2014 and 1980, the 2014 modernised edition just look so childish, awful and awkward whereas the 80's turtles knew what they were supposed to be and do, plus the animation was better (than all just child-like).

[Tanooki Kuribo]

...And if it were hand drawn, could they have the 4x3 AR version (full framed pictures) stored somewhere?

There would be no reason to create a 4x3 version in this day and age. Back in the day, they might make a 4x3 version for home video since that's what the standard TV size was. But now with TV's being widescreen, there's really no need for it.

[VegettoEX]

Fair point, I'm crossing posts and intents.

So what would you suggest for the Spanish dub? If "Beerus" doesn't make enough sense (I'm well aware of cerveza; is the English word "beer" ever used in any context / have familiarity among the speakers?), then what does "Bills" do for anyone? Isn't it the same as with us: nothing? Shouldn't it then be something like Cervezar or Cerbaza or some other pun adaptation?

But then that brings in something like "Pui-Pui" to "Pocus" that I wholeheartedly disagree with. His name isn't "Pocus" just like I don't think my own name should be "translated" into some other language.

[dbboxkaifan]

There would be no reason to create a 4x3 version in this day and age. Back in the day, they might make a 4x3 version for home video since that's what the standard TV size was. But now with TV's being widescreen, there's really no need for it.

That's true. Still, even people being aware of this they're against the DBZ Season BDs which are widescreen which is to say it's now the traditional aspect ratio but they'd rather want it in 4x3 AR (I'd do too, something like Level remastering).

It's two different products but both are widescreen.

[MagicBox]

That's because one product was meant for "widescreen," whereas the other wasn't. It's as simple as can be.

Are you trying to compare a movie that was produced, from conception to completion, in the 16:9 aspect ratio (and thus, preferable in 16:9) to a 4:3 TV series that was edited and cropped to 16:9 (and thus, not preferable in 16:9 in any logical way)?

Because it seems to me that you're looking for a single aspect ratio that everyone will just universally agree is "better." And there's not. What matters is the original aspect ratio of a production. The people who want DBZ to be kept in 4:3 aren't doing so because they're just so hot for 4:3. It's because that's what the show was created in. Those people aren't going to want a 4:3 version of "Battle Of Gods."

[UltimateHammerBro]

So what would you suggest for the Spanish dub? If "Beerus" doesn't make enough sense (I'm well aware of cerveza; is the English word "beer" ever used in any context / have familiarity among the speakers?), then what does "Bills" do for anyone? Isn't it the same as with us: nothing? Shouldn't it then be something like Cervezar or Cerbaza or some other pun adaptation?

The Spanish dubs don't tend to adapt names to convey the puns. The only particular case I remember (I might be wrong) was changing Cell's name to Célula (which means "cell") after a hiatus in the dub.
While I don't think it should be done (mainly because the fan outrage would be enormous), I've just thought of a name which preserves the original name and contains both the "virus" and "beer" puns:
Birrus.
Not only does it fit as a romanization (except for the double-rolling r, which doesn't exist in Japanese or in English), but it also contains the "virus" pun, and it's also similar to birra, a colloquial term for "beer" (and Italian for "beer" too).

I was writing this reply and I had written that there was no way to properly adapt the name, but then I had a moment of enlightment and went back to edit my whole post

[VegettoEX]

Well there ya' go. Perfect. "Bills" is just as nonsensical for a Spanish adaptation as it is in English when you have a plenty-fine adaptation that preserves both the pronunciation and the pun.

[JeffJarrett]

The only official spellings used in Japan are: ビルス, Bills, and Beers. Beerus is exclusive to the English version of Battle of Z. Most other contries use the spellings found in Japan, and Bills is one of them.

[VegettoEX]

The only official spellings used in Japan are: ビルス, Bills, and Beers. Beerus is exclusive to the English version of Battle of Z. Most other contries use the spellings found in Japan, and Bills is one of them.

We're well aware of this. We're talking about transliterations/adaptations of the names because "Bills" does not, for many of us, suffice in any way, shape, or form.

[kei17]

Bills definitely is the worst adaptation. My guess is that Toei chose Bills because it sounds more "English". I mean, Beerus and Beers sound closer to the Japanese pronunciation and they might have thought that they're uncool.

There would be no reason to create a 4x3 version in this day and age. Back in the day, they might make a 4x3 version for home video since that's what the standard TV size was. But now with TV's being widescreen, there's really no need for it.

That's true. Still, even people being aware of this they're against the DBZ Season BDs which are widescreen which is to say it's now the traditional aspect ratio but they'd rather want it in 4x3 AR (I'd do too, something like Level remastering).

It's two different products but both are widescreen.

As MagicBox stated, it's the original aspect ratio that people are sticking with. It's not that they're obsessed with 4:3. Again, why do you keep commenting on the technical side of things you don't have any clue about? To me, it seems like you often disturb fruitful discussions by posting some nonsensical indication about technical things.

Part of me as an video nerd kind of wants to see a reframed 4:3 version just out of curiosity, though.

[dbboxkaifan]

As MagicBox stated, it's the original aspect ratio that people are sticking with. It's not that they're obsessed with 4:3. Again, why do you keep commenting on the technical side of things you don't have any clue about? To me, it seems like you often disturb fruitful discussions by posting some nonsensical indication about technical things.

Well that's disrespectful of you to say "you have no clue about" when that isn't true, I'm aware that DBZ's series OGAR is FS but considering that we're now on the WS era things have changed, although old shows/films should maintain their OGAR for its authentic experience.

The films (DB/DBZ) were intended to be seen on WS view but personally I prefer to watch them on 4x3 AR because that way nothing's cropped out from top to bottom.

[kei17]

As MagicBox stated, it's the original aspect ratio that people are sticking with. It's not that they're obsessed with 4:3. Again, why do you keep commenting on the technical side of things you don't have any clue about? To me, it seems like you often disturb fruitful discussions by posting some nonsensical indication about technical things.

Well that's disrespectful of you to say "you have no clue about" when that isn't true, I'm aware that DBZ's series OGAR is FS but considering that we're now on the WS era things have changed, although old shows/films should maintain their OGAR for its authentic experience.

The films (DB/DBZ) were intended to be seen on WS view but personally I prefer to watch them on 4x3 AR because that way nothing's cropped out from top to bottom.

OGAR, FS, WS... Why do you use such confusing abbreviations? Anyway, your statement here doesn't make any sense to me. What does that have to do with BoG? Yeah, the old movies were shot in 4:3, but things are completely different when it comes to BoG which doesn't have any extra image at the top and bottom sides from the beginning.