My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

[Ajay]

Bulma said something interesting, something that REALLY makes me question just what Japan is actually teaching their kids

Go on, I'll bite.

[Fionordequester]

Well, alright then. It's this statement...

Bulma: What?! But, boys don't have tails...or at least, I don't think they do...then again, I've never seen a naked butt before. I thought they only had tails on the front...

So...basically, what I'm to take from this, is that Bulma knows enough about sex to know that men really like getting sexual services from attractive women (offering Goku a chance at feeling her thigh)...but she DOESN'T know enough to even know basic anatomy?! Has she never even gone to a sex ed class? Is that really how much the media tosses sex around, even in children's cartoons?

Then I got to thinking about it, and...yeah, I guess so. After all, I saw it happen before my very eyes last episode, when Dragon Ball is indeed a children's show. Then there's the Japanese versions of tons of my favorite RPG's, like the lapdances in Final Fantasy IV, Cuan reading a porno mag in Final Fantasy VI, the "puff-puff" massages in all of the Dragon Quest games, The 7th Saga, etc...now that I think about it, I'm actually thinking it might've been a mistake getting my feathers ruffled about nudity by itself. THIS is the stuff that's worth zeroing in on...

So, ok, looser attitudes towards sex is one thing. But if I'm understanding this right, children are being exposed to this before they even know how to spell blue! Surely you can see the problem with this? Surely you can see the problem with young girls looking at the protagonist of their gender, Bulma, doing this so carelessly, and the lessons they learn from that?

If nothing else, I know that, as a future parent, I'd be rather frustrated to have my child coming home from a sleepover, modeling whatever outrageous thing they saw from the anime they watched.

[Storm]

Why are you taking a gag series for kids at face value?

EDIT: Also, why are you speaking for Japanese culture and families?

[Fionordequester]

Hmm...well, I really admire Japan and it's cartoons, for a ton of reasons. I like the way they tell their stories, I like the designs, I like the culture (especially in regards to the warrior spirit they show in many of their Shonen media), and I think it's really interesting. I want to visit Japan one day, and learn the language in fact. But, if I see something that seems off...then yeah, I'm gonna criticize it, just like I do with my own country, and even myself.

If you want to offer a rebuttal, or a counter argument though, then feel free. I'd probably want it to move to PMs at some point, so that the thread isn't derailed, but, I have no problems hearing you out. Or, if you want to say "you know, I'd appreciate it if you would just shut up about this already", then I can do that too. I don't like strife and conflict after all. That's why I was hesitant to mention this at first. I knew you guys probably wouldn't agree with me.

[Herms]

]So...basically, what I'm to take from this, is that Bulma knows enough about sex to know that men really like getting sexual services from attractive women (offering Goku a chance at feeling her thigh)...but she DOESN'T know enough to even know basic anatomy?! Has she never even gone to a sex ed class? Is that really how much the media tosses sex around, even in children's cartoons?

Bulma is a cartoon character being presented as unrealistically dim for the purpose of comic effect. It's rather absurd to take this as indicating anything about real Japanese children's sex education.

[Fionordequester]

Bulma is a cartoon character being presented as unrealistically dim for the purpose of comic effect. You're being rather absurd to take this as indicating anything about real Japanese children's knowledge about sex.

You think so? Hmm, well that's good. Sometimes it's hard to tell when you're just being exposed to a culture, you know? I guess while we're on the subject, is peeing in public really a thing in Japan? That's one thing I'm wondering about, though this one I find hard to believe, if only because I imagine the resulting pollution and grime would get to be kind of an issue in such a tightly packed country...

So basically, you guys are saying that it's basically like how, in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, characters will sometimes be uncharacteristically snide, mean, or cruel for the sake of a clever joke they couldn't otherwise tell?

[Storm]

Stop using gag cartoons for children from the 80s as a way to define an entire country. Seriously. You're coming off as borderline racist. It's inappropriate.

[Herms]

So basically, you guys are saying that it's basically like how, in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, characters will sometimes be uncharacteristically snide, mean, or cruel for the sake of a clever joke they couldn't otherwise tell?

I'd say it's more like in The Simpsons when Homer thinks that "gym" rhymes with "time" or that the movie Speed was actually called The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down.

[Fionordequester]

Stop using gag cartoons for children from the 80s as a way to define an entire country. Seriously. You're coming off as borderline racist. It's inappropriate.

Well, I suppose it was a little presumptuous of me to assume such a thing without at least asking someone if I was correct first. Please forgive me. I should've been more careful. But, I don't think it's racist to criticize a culture. Otherwise, I'd be racist towards...well, my own country as well.

EDIT: In fact, honestly, I'd like to stop talking about it. It's obvious I'm hurting/offending at least one person here, which was never my goal.

[Storm]

I don't think it's racist to criticize a culture.

No, it's racist because you think a dumb character in a comedy show not knowing anything about male anatomy reflects the culture of that show's country.

[Fionordequester]

No, it's racist because you think a dumb character in a comedy show not knowing anything about male anatomy reflects the culture of that show's country.

I disagree. However, I do think you could call me an idiot for that. Which I can be, at times. I try my best to be my best self, but, sometimes I fail. It's regrettable, but, now you can see how impulsive I can be.

[Gokuden]

Japan has changed, they have started censoring many things, and are even making manga about cancer. :/
I personally thought DragonBall was a lighthearted comedy, and for the time, animes were more revealing.
Kids shows are being dumbed-down all over the world.

[Fionordequester]

Japan has changed, they have started censoring many things, and are even making manga about cancer. :/
I personally thought DragonBall was a lighthearted comedy, and for the time, animes were more revealing. Kids shows are being dumbed-down all over the world.

And yet, in America, it seems to be the other way around! Interesting how things go full circle huh?

[Gokuden]

Japan has changed, they have started censoring many things, and are even making manga about cancer. :/
I personally thought DragonBall was a lighthearted comedy, and for the time, animes were more revealing. Kids shows are being dumbed-down all over the world.

And yet, in America, it seems to be the other way around! Interesting how things go full circle huh?

Are you sure? At least up here, it seems like they nullified any budgets for kids programming, and suddenly the kids are simple... TOO Simple.

[Fionordequester]

Are you sure? At least up here, it seems like they nullified any budgets for kids programming, and suddenly the kids are simple... TOO Simple.

Well heck, back when I was a kid, stuff like "Doom" and "Quake" were enough to get M ratings, simply because of "Blood, gore, and violence". But now? I see stuff like Grand Theft Auto, which has "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Mature Humor, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs and Alcohol". It's actually kind of funny seeing how short M rated games of the past were compared to the descriptions I see now!

Though, maybe I'm wrong. I don't buy a ton of video games nowadays anyways, so, maybe it's just me. I just sometimes wonder if Doom and Quake would get away with an E+10 rating nowadays.

[Gokuden]

Are you sure? At least up here, it seems like they nullified any budgets for kids programming, and suddenly the kids are simple... TOO Simple.

Well heck, back when I was a kid, stuff like "Doom" and "Quake" were enough to get M ratings, simply because of "Blood, gore, and violence". But now? I see stuff like Grand Theft Auto, which has "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Mature Humor, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs and Alcohol". It's actually kind of funny seeing how short M rated games of the past were compared to the descriptions I see now!

Though, maybe I'm wrong. I don't buy a ton of video games nowadays anyways, so, maybe it's just me. I just sometimes wonder if Doom and Quake would get away with an E+10 rating nowadays.

Oh... I played GTA V, it wasn't that great, cursing, shallow content, shallow story, shallow protagonists, sex here, there. It shouldn't even be compared to the masterpiece that is DragonBall. I think games have boards that review them, who's to say these content judges aren't corrupt? I don't play that many western games to be honest, just AAA games, and when I do, there is obviously violence, because it sells.

I imagine that we, as 90's kids, and 80's kids, were lucky enough to get the bulk of the best content, and DB was a part of it. However, it has become more and more evident that since our Anime was scarce, we had to make effort to track it down, and became perfectionists, noticing little details like a nip-slip there, a panty shot here, and comparing them to recent times.

These new kids, born into this Anime-filled world, they don't care about that, they're just going to watch the content as they see it on tv because it is commonplace, and there will be no effort to search about the different versions because all they have to do is flick the remote, and change the channel to another anime heavy network!

This leads to people not appreciating the original show, and replacing it with something trendy like 16:9, or discarding it for not looking new.
I have no idea about what the younger generation's view on nudity is, or sex, so can't comment on that. But I do know that for them, it's normal to see this stuff in tv shows that aren't cartoons, and commercials about condoms, diapers, so what if saiyan baby penises are on display, what makes them any more vulgar that huggies? So what, Bulma has large mammaries, good job, more than half of the population does.

[Fionordequester]

Well, I'm no statistics expert, so I don't know about all that. But, thanks for lightening the mood a bit. Anyways, I'll stop mentioning this in the future, unless I think it's really important or something. So, look forward to...next time, on Let's Watch Dragonball!

Any comments, suggestions, or criticisms are of course, welcome and appreciated!

[Big Momma]

I don't think it's racist to criticize a culture.

No, it's racist because you think a dumb character in a comedy show not knowing anything about male anatomy reflects the culture of that show's country.

I'm gonna completely disagree with this and your post before it. Fiono definitely isn't being racist. This person obviously just doesn't know about Japanese culture. And although I don't think they should be taking the show so seriously/literally, they've already stated they have a hard time doing that.


As stated previously, it'd be similar to a Japanese person comparing American culture to what they see in The Simpsons. It's not racist, just a bit ignorant (Which isn't bad, we're all ignorant about things before we learn them).

EDIT: To Fiono though...even though you said it's tough. I would definitely try to suspend your disbelief even more when you watch. I mean...the very premise of this show (Monkey boy with a tail traveling with a talking pig and a spoiled teenage girl as they search for magic balls to summon a wish-granting dragon) is about as crazy as it gets.

[ABED]

You can't base your understanding of a culture on an anime. It's exaggerated.

[rereboy]

And yet, in America, it seems to be the other way around! Interesting how things go full circle huh?

America used to have cartoons like "Gargoyles". Now it doesn't have anything of the sort, to my knowledge.