Yamamoto Score Question

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.
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Fionordequester
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:33 pm

TheRed259 wrote:@Zestanor Exactly! Everything is not the same. For example, Yamamoto had a unique track for Gohan's Ssj2 transformation while in the Kikuchi Kai version they used again this bgm (it's like telling you that it's not something important). I loved how the atmosphere changed in the Android/Cell Saga with the new Yamamoto tracks while in the Kikuchi version they continued the same story by using almost 10-15 standard bgms along with some others.
On the other hand, Goku's SSJ transformation scene was scored like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAkSg8TzDTs

It was literally SO BAD, that the next episode's "Last time, on Kai!" recap was literally dedicated almost entirely to redoing the scene with this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg8dX6Y4 ... _&index=14

...Well, ok, I can't PROVE that that's the reason why they constructed the "Last episode" recap like that, but considering that that was the ONLY episode recap that ever did that...well, I think it's a safe assumption.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by LordCrumb » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:40 am

I still can't really get into the replacement score. I'm up to Episode 66 now, and it feels like i've been listening to two tracks throughout the series so far.. the same repetitive drumming that cycles over and over again. No dramatic bits when the action gets rough or anything.

I wish I had the patience to search out the Yamamoto audio tracks to mix with my Blu-Rays..

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Kendamu » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:39 pm

It's always been a back-and-forth thing for me. Overall, I really like Kai. However, the misuse of the Kikuchi score is what makes me like the Yamamoto score more. In the time it took to replace the score, the people in charge of it maybe had used more action-oriented tracks during the fights. For example, we get a lot of "Oh, no!" tracks like this one no matter what seems to be going on. I would've loved for more "Wow, this is amazing!" tracks like this one to have been used.

At this point, I just might be one of those crazy fans that would buy Kai again if it got a better score.

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by LordCrumb » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:34 am

Kendamu wrote:It's always been a back-and-forth thing for me. Overall, I really like Kai. However, the misuse of the Kikuchi score is what makes me like the Yamamoto score more. In the time it took to replace the score, the people in charge of it maybe had used more action-oriented tracks during the fights. For example, we get a lot of "Oh, no!" tracks like this one no matter what seems to be going on. I would've loved for more "Wow, this is amazing!" tracks like this one to have been used.

At this point, I just might be one of those crazy fans that would buy Kai again if it got a better score.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:33 pm

Here's some more proof that the Replacement Soundtrack in Kai is a horribly misused and unfitting (as if the music in the episodes isn't obvious enough) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zt91jWkR2g

Nagasaki did a shitty job for Dragon Ball Kai's music placement but this at least isn't his fault, it's what TOEI gave him to work with.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by penguintruth » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:49 pm

The misuse of the Kikuchi score in Kai is vasty overstated. There's tons of examples of great use of it. It needed a bit more variety, sure, but it was fine for the most part.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by LordCrumb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:45 pm

Hey guys, does anyone have the original Japanese broadcast episode of when Gohan turns SS2 in front of Cell? I would like to hear what the music originally was, if someone could upload the whole clip, from just before Cell destroys 16 to when the usual ad break comes in.. the replacement music is really anti-climactic.


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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by LordCrumb » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:20 am

Cheers mate. It's still rather "meh" compared to the original Z version, and in this instance, maybe the replacement music isn't too bad. First thing I thought of though was Queens Bohemian Rhapsody when the music first hit though.. "mumma, just killed a man..."

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Black_Liger » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:03 pm

The replacement score sometimes fits, sometimes it doesn't fit at all. That's my main problem, it's not consistent quality in regards to it's Z counterpart.

I can say the same about the yamamoto score which sometimes has funny placements, but nowhere near as BAD as the kikuchi ones, however I admit that the first episodes that aired with the replacement score (last 2 episodes) where scored really amazing.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:58 pm

Black_Liger wrote:The replacement score sometimes fits, sometimes it doesn't fit at all. That's my main problem, it's not consistent quality in regards to it's Z counterpart.

I can say the same about the yamamoto score which sometimes has funny placements, but nowhere near as BAD as the kikuchi ones, however I admit that the first episodes that aired with the replacement score (last 2 episodes) where scored really amazing.
I think everyone can agree on this because 96 and 97 really had great music placements of Kikuchi's Z BGMs although Eps. 01-95 and 98 didn't feel nowhere near as good.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by TheRed259 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:03 pm

It seems that they first did episodes 96 and 97 for Tv and then went back and ruined almost everything! :lol:

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Storm » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:47 pm

This is a little off-topic, but I don't have access to my BDs right now: can anyone tell me what Kikuchi song is used in Kai during the Super Saiyan Son Goku speech?


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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Storm » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:14 pm

Thanks!

It's really interesting to me that the Yamamoto and Z cuts emphasized the uplifting part of the speech and that song brings out the terror.

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Metalwario64 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:32 pm

Storm wrote:that song brings out the terror.
Yep, that's why it's my favorite piece for that scene.

The Kikuchi Z and Yamamoto pieces make it a bit too cheesy for my liking, whereas the Kikuchi Kai piece brings out Goku's rage, which is the main point of that scene.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:46 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Storm wrote:that song brings out the terror.
Yep, that's why it's my favorite piece for that scene.

The Kikuchi Z and Yamamoto pieces make it a bit too cheesy for my liking, whereas the Kikuchi Kai piece brings out Goku's rage, which is the main point of that scene.
This Kikuchi Z BGM in Kai killed whatever suspense there was by not being suitable for the scene and just as if that wasn't an important moment in the series, unfortunately the Gohan SSJ2 suffers the same problem as well as other scenes.

The French Kai dub is great but the Kikuchi BGM chosen for it ruined it, however, had it been one of the first episodes to be worked on for the replacement music (eps 96-97) the outcome would've been a lot different.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Storm wrote:that song brings out the terror.
Yep, that's why it's my favorite piece for that scene.

The Kikuchi Z and Yamamoto pieces make it a bit too cheesy for my liking, whereas the Kikuchi Kai piece brings out Goku's rage, which is the main point of that scene.
Well, I think it works either way, because it really comes down to a question of which emotional aspect of the scene is best served through being highlighted by music. It depends on what one thinks the main point of that scene is.

With the Kikuchi-Z and the Yamamoto score selections, it emphasizes the hope and triumph of knowing that Freeza has, after all the merciless killing he has done, finally met his match. All of the innocents he killed are now going to be avenged--and, to add some irony-flavored salt to the wound, by a Super Saiyan. In Kai, the episode kept going after Goku's "I Am" speech, but in DBZ, this emotional aspect is further emphasized because--talking about the original Japanese version, of course--promptly after Goku's speech, the episode ends, with the narrator saying, "Goku, now is the time to avenge everyone!" I suppose it depends on your perspective, but from a certain perspective, that's worth feeling happy and triumphant. Freeza's finally going to get what he deserves, after all this time!

It's true that the Kikuchi-Kai score selection for that scene emphasizes Goku's rage. So it's not inappropriate per say. However, I feel like that point was already made musically when he first transformed into a Super Saiyan. All three scores for that scene (Kikuchi-Z, Yamamoto, and Kikuchi-Kai) emphasized Goku's rage just fine in that moment. So for us to get another musical selection that emphasizes his rage again......not inappropriate, no, but I would argue that by that point we've been beaten over the head with that point through the music. Sort of like, "OK, we get it, he's angry." By the time he gets to his "I Am" speech, I think it's about time the music acknowledged that there's more to it than Goku's rage. I think it needs to acknowledge now that, yeah, in spite of his rage, there's actually something to be excited about here.

And......I'll be the first to admit, this is probably not an appropriate reason for preferring the Yamamoto score, but....in addition to the reasons I just mentioned, the Yamamoto score mirrored my own feelings when I was watching the English dub of that scene for the first time. I feel, as I'm sure others do, that the "I Am" speech was arguably one of the worst scenes in the DBZ dub. For that reason, I was extremely curious as to how FUNimation would handle it in the Kai dub. Looking back on it, it was my favorite moment in the Kai dub, and the Yamamoto score mirrored my own feelings of triumph when I heard the acting, the writing, and Sean Schemmel's Goku referring to himself as "Son Goku"......man, that was a cool moment for me. It was a soaring, triumphant sense of, "YES, they did it!" Honestly, I think the "I Am" speech scene is the most iconic scene in the history of FUNimation's English dubs for "Dragon Ball"-related material, because the DBZ dub of that scene encapsulates everything they did horribly wrong, and the Kai dub of that scene encapsulates everything they did beautifully right.
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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Storm » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:26 pm

Although I'm biased because the song in DBZ is favorite Kikuchi piece, I agree that overall I think it's worth highlighting the triumph in the scene.

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Re: Yamamoto Score Question

Post by Pikachuuu » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:32 pm

Someone post the scene when Gohan turned SSJ2 against Cell with the English dub and Kikuchi score.

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