Gohan lifts more than Goku?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Damn, no wonder Goku started DBZ punching whole 20 foot diameter trees whenever he wanted firewood!!

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think Piccolo would probably weigh less than the rock actually

[sekzee]

I think Piccolo would probably weigh less than the rock actually

It's possible, since he wouldn't be as dense.

[Cursed Lemon]

Well to be fair it's easier to push/pull something along the ground than it is to lift it.

well its still takes effort, kid goku was moving that boulder from in a pretty gripped position, he also threw dinosaurs in the air and in 23rd budokai picked up giant piccolo.

Eyeballing the rock at 12x12x12 ft. for its volume and using 170 lbs. per cubic foot as its specific gravity, that comes out to 48,960 lbs. or 244 tons.

[sekzee]

Multiply it by 2 and you're pretty close to the 500 figure. Half the rock is likely under the ground.

[mmg86]

The Monkey King, well, i dont know if Toriyama deliberately set out to make it "everything in the Dragon Ball verse weighs 1% of what its real life counter parts do" or "DBZ world to be one where everything weighs less than 1% of their real life counter parts, Earth's gravity is actually 0.00001 of IRL Earth gravity (how else with beings who can't lift 100kg jump above clouds) and where planet busters and planetary explosions produce less than 10 tons of force". I would assume that he didnt INTEND it to be like that.

But the point I'm making (oh, and before i forget... i have sent you private messages before, and i would really appreciate it if you ever replied one) is that, even if it wasnt deliberate on his part, thats kinda what it ended up being if you follow its logic. Basically, its very likely that Toriyama BELIEVES that, for example, the rock was less than 100 kg. Like, i can imagine myself writing a manga and establishing "character x has the strength of 20 men" (real life men, because in this case it would be a real world setting, not a fictional one). Then having the character, for example, carry around a tank. Eventually someone would point out that even the strongest 20 men in the world together would be unable to do that...

What happens then? I could say "Oh, sorry, i had no idea. In that case, forget that ever happened". I could instead say "somehow, that tank was indeed light enough that 20 men could carry it with no difficulty". Or the final option, would be making a correction, and after that point of the story (and before, assuming the manga ever gets a reprint), it would be rewritten to "character x has the strength of 2000 men" or the like.

It looks like either no one has ever pointed out the similar situations to that example in DB to Toriyama, or if someone did, or he realized it himself, then it seems like he went with option 1 or 2. Oh, and no need to provide scans, i did read the manga, even if it was quite a few years ago. I know almost all those feats, though i dont remember "Goku with a PL of 100 destroyed a 12 inch thick wall of steel with 1 punch", and i never heard that Piccolo weighs 200 kg until now... in the case of "Characters over powering attacks with enough force to destroy planets with physical strength", most of those cases are deflecting blasts before they explode. Kinda like catching a grenade in mid air and tossing it somewhere else. Freezer flying through a Kamehameha is one of the few i remember that would qualify as overpowering instead of "make it explode somewhere else".

Before finishing this post, i will point out that cases like with DB and its physical strength issues arent uncommon. For example, see what I'm gonna show you from JoJo Bizarre Adventure. See how Tarkus lifts that rock with one finger:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz19 ... c0e1c5.png

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz19 ... 0e9a3b.png

Then a bit later we had him saying this. Keep in mind the collar and chain are not special in any way, they are simply stuff from a medieval torture chamber:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz19 ... 0e86fa.png

Then in Part 2, we have characters multiple tiers above Tarkus (in physical strength) and they get feats with numbers. This is the highest of them all:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz19 ... ed9b40.png

What would your conclusion be after seeing those 4 pages? (forgive if my post was too long, i got carried away)

[Cursed Lemon]

Multiply it by 2 and you're pretty close to the 500 figure. Half the rock is likely under the ground.

He couldn't push it then.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Multiply it by 2 and you're pretty close to the 500 figure. Half the rock is likely under the ground.

He couldn't push it then.

Or if he did it would create a pit underground as he moved it and he would fall into it.

[SuicidalZerg]

Multiply it by 2 and you're pretty close to the 500 figure. Half the rock is likely under the ground.

He couldn't push it then.

Or if he did it would create a pit underground as he moved it and he would fall into it.

Create a pit? The pit was already there in the first place, he would have just moved the rock out of the way.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I mean if the rock was as large underground, if it was moved it would move the dirt under it.

[Bullza]

Goku pushing the rock isn't what's impressive it's pushing it while it's dug into the ground. Goku is pushing the rock and the Earth around it.

[Toriyama-sama]

Well, it seems clear to me that that boulder should weight somewhere in the vicinity of one million kilogrammes, if not more, though Tao Pai Pai's throwing of a stone pillar across thousands of kilometres is several orders of magnitude more impressive a feat.

Nevertheless, of course, neither of these even come close to being comparable to Muten Roshi destroying the Moon. I know we're discussing physical strength in this thread, but the truth is that all this shows us just how powerful characters already are right at the story's very beginning.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well nothing in part 1 compares to what Roshi did.

[SuicidalZerg]

Well, it seems clear to me that that boulder should weight somewhere in the vicinity of one million kilogrammes, if not more, though Tao Pai Pai's throwing of a stone pillar across thousands of kilometres is several orders of magnitude more impressive a feat.

Nevertheless, of course, neither of these even come close to being comparable to Muten Roshi destroying the Moon. I know we're discussing physical strength in this thread, but the truth is that all this shows us just how powerful characters already are right at the story's very beginning.

I'm more impressed by the fact that he was able to aim for the exact location of where Karin-to was so precisely. Twice. Without knowing it's exact location before.

[Hitiro]

I've seen that people think that Heaven can't weigh 10x Earth's gravity because of the inhabitants. But I don't see why that would be a problem considering the only people there who would be effected by the weight would be people with bodies and the only people with bodies are martial artists and heroes who have saved their own planets. The souls aren't going to have that problem because they weigh nothing. Or if they do weigh something it's probably so negligible that they'd be around the weight they'd have if they did have bodies in Earths gravity. But I honestly think that the souls weigh nothing. Considering the size of Heaven, and its mass, I'd honestly be surprised if it didn't have a larger gravity than Earth. Especially when you look at it and can see it makes up a big amount of the Universe.

[dbzfan7]

Funny enough in Path to Ultimate Strength, Goku is effortlessly holding a bunch of tanks and tosses them all in the air like nothing. Though I don't think that counts.

[Mjb1985]

Well one of the ways I like to make this make sense is first giving Kaio his regular 10x gravity for the planet he used to have. So that brings us up to 400 tons. Next, Goku did say he could do more, 1,000 tons is too much but he can probably do 600 tons or so. Then consider the actual training that is going on. These are essentially our version of wrist and ankle weights. Now compare the amount of weight you could functionally train in with wrist and ankle weights compared to your bench press ability. So while we can only use 20 pounds on our wrists and ankles to train with, we can bench press 200 pounds.

Which brings Goku's Buu Saga Bench Press up to somewhere near 10,000 tons. That seems pretty good right?

[Retan]

Well one of the ways I like to make this make sense is first giving Kaio his regular 10x gravity for the planet he used to have. So that brings us up to 400 tons. Next, Goku did say he could do more, 1,000 tons is too much but he can probably do 600 tons or so. Then consider the actual training that is going on. These are essentially our version of wrist and ankle weights. Now compare the amount of weight you could functionally train in with wrist and ankle weights compared to your bench press ability. So while we can only use 20 pounds on our wrists and ankles to train with, we can bench press 200 pounds.

Which brings Goku's Buu Saga Bench Press up to somewhere near 10,000 tons. That seems pretty good right?

This is what I would say, plus Goku was flying, and it probably takes body control just to have yourself in the right position while flying combined with that gravity and weights.

and it was just Kaio's planet with the 10x gravity which is where they were.

[Hitiro]

This is what I would say, plus Goku was flying, and it probably takes body control just to have yourself in the right position while flying combined with that gravity and weights.

and it was just Kaio's planet with the 10x gravity which is where they were.

I think it is stated in the Daizenshuu that weight training while flying is actually much more difficult then weight training on the ground. But the gravity of Heaven would have to be 10x+ Earth's gravity as it is a huge planet making up a good portion of the universe. It's understandable that souls won't have a problem with the gravity because they weigh nothing. The only issue would be for heroes and martial artists who have kept their bodies. Though I would hazard a guess if they did something to maintain their bodies in the afterlife then they would have eventually trained with one of the Kaio's at 10x gravity and then moved to Heaven.

[Bullza]

Well one of the ways I like to make this make sense is first giving Kaio his regular 10x gravity for the planet he used to have. So that brings us up to 400 tons.

That wouldn't make a difference it'd still be 40 tons.