Is Super Saiyan God the next "canonical" SSj4?

[MDSTSSJ]

SSjG is stated to be Goku's strongest form which means that SSjG is likely stronger then SSj4. SSj4 does not exist in the manga, SSjG is likely AT's own take on the next SSj level after SSj3. In my opinion: SSjG Goku>SSj3 Vegito>SSj4 Goku.

Orderly talking, the SSJG appeared in DBZ but was created after GT and would not have any sense that the SSJG is stronger than SSJ4 if we go by the premise new transformations are stronger than the last. That's why ( again orderly talking ) we have the Guides saying that Vegetto is " perhaps strong as a Super Saiyan 4 ".

Moreover, besides the usual SSJ4 ( who is super strong being ), we have Kakarotto SSJ4 Beyond Limits who is extremely extremely powerful.

In my opinion: SSJ4 Kakarotto Beyond Limits > SSJG Goku

For me, the SSJ4 is more like Dragon Ball and I like it much more than SSJG despite being two different transformations.

[Hellspawn28]

SSj4 is not a creation from AT. SSjG has god like powers which would make it stronger then a normal SSj form.

[Chuquita]

Imo, neither of them are really a continuation of ssj3. Ssj4 is built more off of oozaru where 1-3 didn't even need a tail; I feel like it's called ssj4 more out of convenience than anything else. Ssjg's also its own kind of thing, as it comes from an outside source and can't be obtained on one's own the way 1-3, even 4, can.

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

IMO, SSJGod>SSJ4 Goku just for the fact that God ki is way more powerful than Saiyan Ki. And SSJG is more of an upgrade than a transformation itself.

[Pantalones]

Super Saiyan God isn't really a "next step" from SSj3 at all. Or from any other Super Saiyan form, really. It's even less "Super Saiyan 4" than the actual Super Saiyan 4 is.

SSj4, though admitted even within the series itself to only be "Super Saiyan 4" by virtue of being a transformation stronger than SSj3 (since it isn't actually "what comes after SSj3" so much as "what comes after Golden Oozaru"), is still at least related to the Super Saiyan forms. It's a "next step" from both Super Saiyan (and Oozaru), since you need to combine those two transformations to get to Golden Oozaru and then SSj4. But Super Saiyan God seems to be completely unrelated to any previous transformation. It seems like you don't even need to have access to Super Saiyan to use it (unless we're going to assume that both Pan-fetus and all six of the original good Saiyans could transform into Super Saiyans on their own before doing the Super Saiyan God ritual? which would seem to contradict the "Super Saiyans showed up really rarely until Goku came around" thing the series has always had going. Vegeta freaked out at the thought of himself, Goku, and all three of the kids having the form--though I guess that was partly or mostly due to 7-year-olds having it, not just the number of Super Saiyans at once--so six Super Saiyans existing at once should be pretty much unheard of in Saiyan history.)

[Low Tone G]

Super Saiyan God isn't really a "next step" from SSj3 at all. Or from any other Super Saiyan form, really. It's even less "Super Saiyan 4" than the actual Super Saiyan 4 is.

SSj4, though admitted even within the series itself to only be "Super Saiyan 4" by virtue of being a transformation stronger than SSj3 (since it isn't actually "what comes after SSj3" so much as "what comes after Golden Oozaru"), is still at least related to the Super Saiyan forms. It's a "next step" from both Super Saiyan (and Oozaru), since you need to combine those two transformations to get to Golden Oozaru and then SSj4. But Super Saiyan God seems to be completely unrelated to any previous transformation. It seems like you don't even need to have access to Super Saiyan to use it (unless we're going to assume that both Pan-fetus and all six of the original good Saiyans could transform into Super Saiyans on their own before doing the Super Saiyan God ritual? which would seem to contradict the "Super Saiyans showed up really rarely until Goku came around" thing the series has always had going. Vegeta freaked out at the thought of himself, Goku, and all three of the kids having the form--though I guess that was partly or mostly due to 7-year-olds having it, not just the number of Super Saiyans at once--so six Super Saiyans existing at once should be pretty much unheard of in Saiyan history.)

I completely agree!

Toriyama said every saiyans can become SSJ God but their power could vary. So this expression of Suupa Saiya-jin Goddo is somewhat incorrect to use because if there were any super saiyans(6) when the Original (Super) Siyan God was created then they could somehow handle other saiyans who were capable to use only their Oozaru transformation. I mean this expresssion it's better to use it as Saiyan God. The first SJ God was also within Godly realm as power, so in the worst case I'd put him at least 1 in comparison with Beerus(10), God Goku(6) and Whis(15).

[Bullza]

SSJ4 is absolutely stronger than SSJ God if you included GT as canon because Goku said that Baby when he transformed the second time was the strongest Ki that he had ever felt.

Baby Vegeta Second Form > Bills.

I won't include Whis as Goku never sensed a powered up Whis.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SSJ4 is absolutely stronger than SSJ God if you included GT as canon because Goku said that Baby when he transformed the second time was the strongest Ki that he had ever felt.

But does that include godly ki?

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

SSJ4 is absolutely stronger than SSJ God if you included GT as canon because Goku said that Baby when he transformed the second time was the strongest Ki that he had ever felt.

Baby Vegeta Second Form > Bills.

I won't include Whis as Goku never sensed a powered up Whis.

Well, you gotta consider GT was made long before BoG, and for literally every single Villain theirs at least 1 quote saying "Jeez his power....It's incredible" or "That's the strongest Ki I've ever felt." Also how does Baby being stronger than Beers mean SSJG is weaker than SSJ4? You said basically this.
If
2nd Bebi Vegeta>Beers/Beerus
than
SSJG<SSJ4.
I mean I would say SSJG Goku from BoG would get his ass handed to him from Bebi,but if GT Goku could go SSJG then Bebi should probably just throw himself into the sun. But with SSJ4, he was beating up Bebi yeah but immediately like 20mins later Bebi was like "Lol,No"

[Low Tone G]

SSJ4 is absolutely stronger than SSJ God if you included GT as canon because Goku said that Baby when he transformed the second time was the strongest Ki that he had ever felt.

Baby Vegeta Second Form > Bills.

I won't include Whis as Goku never sensed a powered up Whis.

Well, you gotta consider GT was made long before BoG, and for literally every single Villain theirs at least 1 quote saying "Jeez his power....It's incredible" or "That's the strongest Ki I've ever felt." Also how does Baby being stronger than Beers mean SSJG is weaker than SSJ4? You said basically this.
If
2nd Bebi Vegeta>Beers/Beerus
than
SSJG<SSJ4.
I mean I would say SSJG Goku from BoG would get his ass handed to him from Bebi,but if GT Goku could go SSJG then Bebi should probably just throw himself into the sun. But with SSJ4, he was beating up Bebi yeah but immediately like 20mins later Bebi was like "Lol,No"

But GT doesn't fit in the same continuity with Battle of Gods movie as SSJ4 Goku's Ki was sensible by everyone so if he kept his God energy which can be sensed by Gods then how could Gohan rerad the power level of Goku after he has gone to SSJ4's full power in Baby saga? And before Baby saga Goku's power level could sensed
by Oob and others. The only way to keep Gt in continuity as Goku would have lost his God-like powers till GT started.

Goku could say Baby's power was the greatest ever felt if he ingnores Beerus and Whis, and the events of B.o.G.

[Rockman X]

Imo, neither of them are really a continuation of ssj3. Ssj4 is built more off of oozaru where 1-3 didn't even need a tail; I feel like it's called ssj4 more out of convenience than anything else. Ssjg's also its own kind of thing, as it comes from an outside source and can't be obtained on one's own the way 1-3, even 4, can.

I just realized that all you need to achieve SSj4 is that you should have a tail and the ability to go SSj lol anyone from android saga can go SSj4 if they had a tail especially vegeta since he could control his oozaru form.

So it seems like SSj3 is the maximum limit for super saiyans i guess?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But GT doesn't fit in the same continuity with Battle of Gods movie as SSJ4 Goku's Ki was sensible by everyone so if he kept his God energy which can be sensed by Gods then how could Gohan rerad the power level of Goku after he has gone to SSJ4's full power in Baby saga? And before Baby saga Goku's power level could sensed
by Oob and others. The only way to keep Gt in continuity as Goku would have lost his God-like powers till GT started.

The official timeline of the anime has both BoG & GT in the same continuity, so I guess Goku couldn't use properly his God powers, like he couldn't use properly Shunkan Ido & Super Saiyan 3.

As for why SS4 Goku didn't use the God powers, I guess that God Goku can only use base, SS, and SSGod, and not Oozaru, SSG2, SSG3, SS2, SS3, Golden Oozaru, and SS4, because these forms affect his personality, while base, SS, and SSGod keep him pure hearted, and SSGod requires 6 righteous Saiyans for the ritual.

[KentalSSJ6]

But GT doesn't fit in the same continuity with Battle of Gods movie as SSJ4 Goku's Ki was sensible by everyone so if he kept his God energy which can be sensed by Gods then how could Gohan rerad the power level of Goku after he has gone to SSJ4's full power in Baby saga? And before Baby saga Goku's power level could sensed
by Oob and others. The only way to keep Gt in continuity as Goku would have lost his God-like powers till GT started.

The official timeline of the anime has both BoG & GT in the same continuity, so I guess Goku couldn't use properly his God powers, like he couldn't use properly Shunkan Ido & Super Saiyan 3.

As for why SS4 Goku didn't use the God powers, I guess that God Goku can only use base, SS, and SSGod, and not Oozaru, SSG2, SSG3, SS2, SS3, Golden Oozaru, and SS4, because these forms affect his personality, while base, SS, and SSGod keep him pure hearted, and SSGod requires 6 righteous Saiyans for the ritual.

Or a event causes Goku to lose his powers before GT, which is something I hope happens.

[Bullza]

SSJ4 is absolutely stronger than SSJ God if you included GT as canon because Goku said that Baby when he transformed the second time was the strongest Ki that he had ever felt.

But does that include godly ki?

Well I'd see no reason why it wouldn't be, it's still Ki. He'd probably group them all together, it'd be odd if his thought process was "That's the strongest Ki I've ever felt with the exception of people that have godly Ki".

[Bullza]

Also how does Baby being stronger than Beers mean SSJG is weaker than SSJ4? You said basically this.

Well SSJ4 was stronger than Oozaru Baby Vegeta when he transformed in his third form and SSJ God Goku was weaker than Beerus so

SSJ4 Goku >= Oozaru Baby >>>> Baby Second form > Beerus > SSJ God Goku.

I mean I would say SSJG Goku from BoG would get his ass handed to him from Bebi,but if GT Goku could go SSJG then Bebi should probably just throw himself into the sun. But with SSJ4, he was beating up Bebi yeah but immediately like 20mins later Bebi was like "Lol,No"

Wasn't it said that Goku absorbed the SSJ God power? Plus the second time he was able to turn into it of his own will. That's why that doesn't make sense in GT because Goku never went SSJ God when fighting Baby and nobody ever mentioned it as a possibility for beating anyone which is why the two are completely separate and can't be compared.

If you still wanted to anyway then Goku didn't use SSJ God in GT because he knew it still wouldn't be enough so instead went for the SSJ4 which was superior.

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

Wasn't it said that Goku absorbed the SSJ God power? Plus the second time he was able to turn into it of his own will. That's why that doesn't make sense in GT because Goku never went SSJ God when fighting Baby and nobody ever mentioned it as a possibility for beating anyone which is why the two are completely separate and can't be compared.

If you still wanted to anyway then Goku didn't use SSJ God in GT because he knew it still wouldn't be enough so instead went for the SSJ4 which was superior.

I see what you mean but, I think if SSJG existed back then when GT came out Goku probably would have used it. Then Bebi would have used blutz waves the same etc..

[Cetra]

I see no problem with Goku being a Super Saiyajin God in GT. Maybe he made it his "Ultimate Gohan" form but without even powering up. Akira Toriyama said, he absorbed the power but he did not exactly say how, so maybe after that instant transformation to absorb Beerus' attack he does never again need to transform (so perhaps neither with ritual nor without ritual, it is just his normal power) to unleash the power except for style maybe.

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

I see no problem with Goku being a Super Saiyajin God in GT. Maybe he made it his "Ultimate Gohan" form but without even powering up. Akira Toriyama said, he absorbed the power but he did not exactly say how, so maybe after that instant transformation to absorb Beerus' attack he does never again need to transform (so not with ritual and not without ritual, it is just his normal power) to unleash the power except for style maybe.

I guess that explains GT Goku=SSJ3Goku in buu arc....

[Cetra]

I guess that explains GT Goku=SSJ3Goku in buu arc....

Really the only plothole for GT and BoG is Pilaf and when it comes to that there are like 15 years between them. There could always be a second wish that failed or the first wish had some side effect they did not want or whatever. Maybe we actually get something about it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I see no problem with Goku being a Super Saiyajin God in GT. Maybe he made it his "Ultimate Gohan" form but without even powering up. Akira Toriyama said, he absorbed the power but he did not exactly say how, so maybe after that instant transformation to absorb Beerus' attack he does never again need to transform (so not with ritual and not without ritual, it is just his normal power) to unleash the power except for style maybe.

I guess that explains GT Goku=SSJ3Goku in buu arc....

Not really, it's the inconsistent views of Toei that makes it look like that.

And God Goku is far stronger than SS3 Goku.