Validity of leaving 'Kami' untranslated

[Ajay]

I'm curious as to why FUNimation/Steve Simmons and those at Viz decided to leave Kami untranslated rather than simply going with 'God'. I would hazard a guess that, in the case of the FUNi dub, it was to appease the oversensitive parents who might consider portraying God as a green dude somewhat offensive.

I'm assuming that's not the case with the subtitles and manga and if so, what is the reason? Is it a valid one?

[penguintruth]

Cause 'MURICA!

That's about it.

[KameRule]

Kami watches over Earth. He didn't CREATE Earth, so calling him God doesn't make much sense anyway. And I think calling him Kami sounds far better than calling him God.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Cause 'MURICA!

That's about it.

Actually, I believe they left it untranslated in most of the foreign dubs as well, so I'm not sure it's a problem unique to American audiences.

[Ajay]

Kami watches over Earth. He didn't CREATE Earth, so calling him God doesn't make much sense anyway. And I think calling him Kami sounds far better than calling him God.

Yes, the meaning of 'Kami-sama' doesn't just refer to the Christian notion of a God though. It can be used to 'indicate any sort of god, beings of a higher place or belonging to a different sphere of existence' according to definitions I've found. Whether or not he created earth is irrelevant, surely.

[KameRule]

Kami watches over Earth. He didn't CREATE Earth, so calling him God doesn't make much sense anyway. And I think calling him Kami sounds far better than calling him God.

Yes, the meaning of 'Kami-sama' doesn't just refer to the Christian notion of a God though. It can be used to 'indicate any sort of god, beings of a higher place or belonging to a different sphere of existence' according to definitions I've found. Whether or not he create God is irrelevant, surely.

Yes, but that's the whole reason they changed it. When you're talking about A god, then fine, that fits the Japanese word Kami fine. But as a NAME it doesn't, the most relevant thing to God as a NAME is capital G, Christian God. See where I'm getting at?

[Ajay]

See where I'm getting at?

Not in the slightest.

[El Diabeetus]

Kami watches over Earth. He didn't CREATE Earth, so calling him God doesn't make much sense anyway. And I think calling him Kami sounds far better than calling him God.

Yes, the meaning of 'Kami-sama' doesn't just refer to the Christian notion of a God though. It can be used to 'indicate any sort of god, beings of a higher place or belonging to a different sphere of existence' according to definitions I've found. Whether or not he create God is irrelevant, surely.

Yes, but that's the whole reason they changed it. When you're talking about A god, then fine, that fits the Japanese word Kami fine. But as a NAME it doesn't, the most relevant thing to God as a NAME is capital G, Christian God. See where I'm getting at?

It's not his name though. It's just a title, the God of Earth in Dragon Ball was never given a real name. By calling him Kami it's misleading, since it sounds like it's the guy's name. When all it is is the Japanese word for God. It's the same problem with King Kai. It makes it sound like Kai is the guy's name.

[Herms]

would hazard a guess that, in the case of the FUNi dub, it was to appease the oversensitive parents who might consider portraying God as a green dude somewhat offensive.

I don't think there can be much doubt about that, since they don't refer to any of the gods as gods in the Funi dub, and other religious elements like demons and the afterlife got glossed over (at first, anyway).

I'm assuming that's not the case with the subtitles and manga and if so, what is the reason? Is it a valid one?

I don't know for sure. Viz at least alternates between calling him "God" and "Kami-sama" when he first appears. For the Z volumes they typically stick with "Kami-sama" but (almost) always makes it clear that he's a god. So overall their approach there isn't too much different than what they do with Kaio or Kaioshin, where they alternate between using the untranslated titles and their English translation/adaptation of the name.

[Fizzer]

"God" does not necessarily mean the Christian god - his name is Jehovah, not God. Even in his case, "God" is a title, like "Prime Minister". God is a general term independent of any religion, though most Americans probably don't hear it that way.

I think "Kami" should have been translated as "God", as, in the Dragon World, he's the god that watches over Earth and humanity, but people have different ideas about what he's actually like, in the form of religion. Kami and his predecessors are the fire that created all the smoke.

I'm assuming that's not the case with the subtitles and manga and if so, what is the reason? Is it a valid one?

I don't know for sure. Viz at least alternates between calling him "God" and "Kami-sama" when he first appears. For the Z volumes they typically stick with "Kami-sama" but (almost) always makes it clear that he's a god. So overall their approach there isn't too much different than what they do with Kaio or Kaioshin, where they alternate between using the untranslated titles and their English translation/adaptation of the name.

I always liked what Viz did. It gave the impression that Kami is God and God's name is Kami, and while that's not quite right, I like it. Kaio, the Lord of Worlds, and Kaioshin, the Lord of Lords, are also really cool.

[KameRule]

Try watching DB (or reading the manga) and every time the name Kami is spoken, replace it with "God of Earth". It would just be too tedious, and he needs a name.

[Fizzer]

Try watching DB (or reading the manga) and every time the name Kami is spoken, replace it with "God of Earth". It would just be too tedious, and he needs a name.

"God of Earth" is only really necessary when it's said by Kaio or someone. Most of the characters, being from Earth, would just call him God.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

I don't think leaving "Kami" untranslated is necessarily any less valid than leaving "Daimao" as is, rather than translating it as "The Devil", "Satan", etc.

[KameRule]

Try watching DB (or reading the manga) and every time the name Kami is spoken, replace it with "God of Earth". It would just be too tedious, and he needs a name.

"God of Earth" is only really necessary when it's said by Kaio or someone. Most of the characters, being from Earth, would just call him God.

But when you call someone God as a name it becomes more affiliated with THE God of Christianity. Whis calling Beerus God wouldn't sound right, neither does this.

[Fizzer]

Try watching DB (or reading the manga) and every time the name Kami is spoken, replace it with "God of Earth". It would just be too tedious, and he needs a name.

"God of Earth" is only really necessary when it's said by Kaio or someone. Most of the characters, being from Earth, would just call him God.

But when you call someone God as a name it becomes more affiliated with THE God of Christianity. Whis calling Beerus God wouldn't sound right, neither does this.

English-speaking Muslims use "God" to refer to Allah quite often, just as Christians use it to refer to Jehovah. People just use it to refer to "their" god, so I don't see why earthlings wouldn't use it to refer to Kami.

[Herms]

Try watching DB (or reading the manga) and every time the name Kami is spoken, replace it with "God of Earth". It would just be too tedious, and he needs a name.

That's already what the Viz manga does half the time anyway, and it seems to work alright.

Whis calling Beerus God wouldn't sound right, neither does this.

That wouldn't be right because that's not what Whis calls him in the actual movie; he just calls him "Beerus". But if Whis did call Beerus "God" in Japanese, then it would make sense for an English translation to have him call Beerus "God" in English.

[KameRule]

English-speaking Muslims use "God" to refer to Allah quite often, just as Christians use it to refer to Jehovah. People just use it to refer to "their" god, so I don't see why earthlings wouldn't use it to refer to Kami.

We have established that Kami isn't God who created Earth. He is just a being of god-level status, or "a god". Your argument is invalid.

[Herms]

I don't think leaving "Kami" untranslated is necessarily any less valid than leaving "Daimao" as is, rather than translating it as "The Devil", "Satan", etc.

Yeah, it all depends on the overall approach of the translation. Viz leaves it untranslated a good chunk of the time, but their translation as a whole makes it clear that he's a god. Whereas Funi leaves it untranslated as part of their overall approach of glossing over the idea that the character's a god. Obviously I think Viz's approach is much better, even if at first glance it looks like both versions just call the guy "Kami".

In the same way, I don't have a problem with leaving "Daimao" untranslated, in and of itself. But I wouldn't much like it if a translation treated "Daimao" like it was Piccolo's family name and glossed over the entire idea of him being a demon king.

In fact, I've come to somewhat dislike the practice of leaving "Majin" untranslated when it comes to Majin Boo. I don't think Funi or anyone is trying to censor or gloss over anything like with Kami, but the end result is still that most DB fans have little if any idea as to what "Majin" means and why the character is called that. It's just treated like it were Boo's surname or something, leading to stuff like GT's Boo/Oob fusion being called "Majuub".

[Ajay]

...leading to stuff like GT's Boo/Oob fusion being called "Majuub".

I think the more accurate alternative is perhaps a little NSFW!

On a serious note, thanks for the input, it helped clear some things up. Do you think it would have been acceptable for the subtitles to simple go with 'God' so long as they ensure that explanations of what that means within universe were made clear?

[Fizzer]

English-speaking Muslims use "God" to refer to Allah quite often, just as Christians use it to refer to Jehovah. People just use it to refer to "their" god, so I don't see why earthlings wouldn't use it to refer to Kami.

We have established that Kami isn't God who created Earth. He is just a being of god-level status, or "a god". Your argument is invalid.

My argument is that "God" doesn't have to be the god who created the Earth. It doesn't have to be any particular god. If there is actually a succession of beings who take the role of God, then it should refer to the present one, just like "The President" refers to the current president.