Why did Goku stop killing people?

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Kid Buu
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Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:35 pm

A lot of people talk about how Goku killing foes after Namek is part of his character arc in the series, but why did he stop killing in the first place? He had no problem killing in the Red Ribbon Army and Piccolo Daimao Arcs. People say Kami taught him not too, but I cant find any proof of that anymore. In fact, Kami himself tries to kill Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai once Goku knocked Piccolo out. So if it is true, Kami's a hypocrite.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:28 pm

I think it mostly had to do with Goku getting stronger and realizing that finding opponents at his level to test himself against would start to become harder and harder. So he'd only actively choose to kill when it was deemed an immediate requirement, like with Buu. Where even if Goku could have managed to just defeat him, he wouldn't have just sat around and tried to surpass Goku like Piccolo did. Buu would have kept rampaging.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:26 pm

Pretty much what TheDevilsCorpse said. I kind of want to think that Android 8 had an effect on him too, but...well, it's not really that long after that that Goku has no problem killing people (even if most of them really deserved it), and doesn't seem to start having a problem with it again until many years later. So the short time he listened to 8's wishes are probably inconsequential really.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:42 pm

I just guess that AT wanted other characters besides Goku have a chance to kill the main bad guy of the saga.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:49 pm

I guess it is also what TheDevilsCorpse said, but I think that Kami's presumed ideals that he taught him also played a role. He didn't hesitate to kill as a kid, but as an adult, he only killed when it was necessary.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:57 am

I personally think he grew out of it. After training with Kami for 3 years, getting married, and then bringing life into the world, Goku just matured.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by flashback0180 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:10 am

Either AT thought it sent a wrong message ...

Or living with Kami for 3 years on the lookout made him change his ways.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Rocketman » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:33 am

It stopped being a test for his skills.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:38 am

I don't think adult Goku had any particular aversion to killing, not any more than his kid self. He totally killed Yakon and Pure Buu, killed Freeza and Cold (different timeline, same character), told Gohan to kill Cell, told Goten/Trunks to kill Fat Buu, presumably had no problem with Kaioshin's plan involving killing Babidi, definitely had no problem with Gohan killing the Cell Jrs/Vegeta killing Pui Pui, and was fully willing to kill Raditz (who he HELPED kill, at least) and Freeza (after he pulled a Tao-style dick move). It was just different circumstances. In cases where he murdered someone in a blind rage, like Tambourine, he probably simply grew out of that phase, becoming more mature and in control of his emotions due to Kami's/Popo's training.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:40 am

Didn't he get upset that Vegeta killed Burter & Recoome? Also I'm pretty sure he killed RRA soldiers where he wasn't being bent on revenging his friends.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:44 am

Kid Buu wrote:Didn't he get upset that Vegeta killed Burter & Recoome? Also I'm pretty sure he killed RRA soldiers where he wasn't being bent on revenging his friends.
Like I said, different circumstances. Those soldiers were a threat to Goku at the time, and it's not like he could've spared them unless he got reeeeeally careful, and he probably just didn't care about being so precise (IIRC it was mostly the guys in vehicles who died, he knocked out most foot soldiers). Recoome and Burter were taken down easily by Goku, who at this point was more fully in control of his powers and able to hold back more to ensure his opponents' survival, and effectively helpless. As we see earlier, with Tao, non-raged Goku will not kill a helpless opponent (Tao was surrendering, wasn't he?).
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:47 am

Tao claimed he was surrendering and then Goku says "But jeez, after everything he is done" to Upa and then Tao attacks him again. So yeah.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:57 am

Ah, I misremembered the scene. Goku doesn't decide to spare him; he considers whether or not he should, then Tao attacks before he can decide. But I think that the fact that he was even considering it- and IMO likely would have just let him go- means his personality in Z doesn't totally come out of nowhere. Tao was simply outclassed and surrendering, and had killed a personal friend of Goku's: the people Goku got mad at Vegeta for killing hadn't personally done anything to Goku (aside from beat up his son and friend, but they were healed one bean later anyway), and weren't simply surrendering, they were neutralized and totally harmless.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by soulnova » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:44 am

Rocketman wrote:It stopped being a test for his skills.
I believe this.

He was arguably still on the high end of the "human strength scale" during the first half of Dragon Ball. Once he grows up, he's simply on another league completely. It wouldn't be fair at all and I believe he realizes that. He neutralized Nappa and others hoping that would be enough to make them stop... sadly, Vegeta was around on a couple of those and finished the job. :lol:
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:26 am

I think it was Toriyama-sensei's attempt at character development of having Goku being sentimental towards life, in contrast to a typical Saiyan.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:33 am

It's interesting that no one is mentioning a specific outlier: Black. Now here's a guy who Goku did not have a specific revenge motive against. He's someone who offered to not fight Goku in the first place. And he's someone who technically surrendered. He tried to run away, similar to Jheese, yet Goku said he couldn't let bad guys get away and made sure he killed him.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by dan2026 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Is there actually a list of people Goku has officially killed?

The ones who spring to mind are ; Buyon, Black, Drum, Tambourine, Piano (indirectly) Piccolo Daimao, Radditz (assisted in), Majin Buu.

A lot of early Dragon Ball is hazy though. So I am sure a few red ribbon goons probably bought it.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Valerius Dover » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:38 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:It's interesting that no one is mentioning a specific outlier: Black. Now here's a guy who Goku did not have a specific revenge motive against. He's someone who offered to not fight Goku in the first place. And he's someone who technically surrendered. He tried to run away, similar to Jheese, yet Goku said he couldn't let bad guys get away and made sure he killed him.
Yeah, this one actually bothers me a little. Goku let Vegeta go even though he had destroyed an entire planet (although he didn't know, I'm sure he must've assumed he had done plenty of destruction). Officer Black had never directly killed anyone in the series. A similar thing with Raditz, although he was an immediate threat to everyone around him. Officer Black was just retreating. Maybe it's a maturity thing, but still.
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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by dan2026 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:45 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:
Yeah, this one actually bothers me a little. Goku let Vegeta go even though he had destroyed an entire planet (although he didn't know, I'm sure he must've assumed he had done plenty of destruction). Officer Black had never directly killed anyone in the series. A similar thing with Raditz, although he was an immediate threat to everyone around him. Officer Black was just retreating. Maybe it's a maturity thing, but still.
I see you point, but Black did shoot Commander Red straight through the head.

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Re: Why did Goku stop killing people?

Post by Valerius Dover » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:51 pm

dan2026 wrote:
Valerius Dover wrote:
Yeah, this one actually bothers me a little. Goku let Vegeta go even though he had destroyed an entire planet (although he didn't know, I'm sure he must've assumed he had done plenty of destruction). Officer Black had never directly killed anyone in the series. A similar thing with Raditz, although he was an immediate threat to everyone around him. Officer Black was just retreating. Maybe it's a maturity thing, but still.
I see you point, but Black did shoot Commander Red straight through the head.
Well, he didn't kill any "good guys" so to speak. Sorry, mis-worded that a bit, silly me. :roll:
Now that I think about it, he was escaping in a giant robot suit. He could've easily terrorized a village after escaping, or gone to hold people hostage. Vegeta was escaping offworld, while Jeice wouldn't really have anyone to kill since everyone was already dead. A thought that just occurred to me.
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