Is Super Saiyan God the next "canonical" SSj4?

[Hitiro]

I hope they pretend hat GT never happened. That would be my ideal scenario. They should avoid the train-wreck that is GT.

[Low Tone G]

As I said before, in my view SSJ God is something apart from any other transformations. SSJ4 it's a combination of Super Saiyan and Oozaru, all those are normal Ki based as they can be sensed by mortals (aka lower beings). In my view any KI-powered beings(even SSJ4 Gogeta) are below Gods like Beerus, God Goku and Whis. That type of Ki is something like a skill of Universal Gods in order to destroy, not a presence that can be sensed. And it's a power-up, but also transformation, as Goku's being was totally changed. It's not like the Mystic/Ultimate power-up despite is both are done with a ritual. SSJ4 it's not based on SSJ God, SSJ4 can be in the same continuity with BOG if Goku's SSJ God has faded away with time, but Toriyama confirmed that it has not, as claiming Goku doesn't need another ritual to transform in SSJ-God, as he kept its nature, and power.

[Barunks]

Super saiyan god is much like false super saiyan, ultra super saiyan, full power super saiyan, and even Broly's legendary super saiyan form in that it is an "in between form". The main theme behind these forms are that although they are vastly more powerful than the form that precedes them, they would always be nothing compared to the numbered form that comes next. Thus, super saiyan god is more like a super saiyan 3.5 than the new super saiyan 4.

[Hitiro]

Super saiyan god is much like false super saiyan, ultra super saiyan, full power super saiyan, and even Broly's legendary super saiyan form in that it is an "in between form". The main theme behind these forms are that although they are vastly more powerful than the form that precedes them, they would always be nothing compared to the numbered form that comes next. Thus, super saiyan god is more like a super saiyan 3.5 than the new super saiyan 4.

That isn't really true. SSJG > SSJ4. One of the guidebooks, can't remember which, says SSJ Vegetto is possibly more powerful than SSJ4 Goku. And Birusu + SSJG Goku are both stronger than SSJ Vegetto which would mean by extension that SSJG outranks SSJ4 in terms of a multiplier. So SSJG Goku GT would be stronger than SSJ4 Goku GT.

[Low Tone G]

Super saiyan god is much like false super saiyan, ultra super saiyan, full power super saiyan, and even Broly's legendary super saiyan form in that it is an "in between form". The main theme behind these forms are that although they are vastly more powerful than the form that precedes them, they would always be nothing compared to the numbered form that comes next. Thus, super saiyan god is more like a super saiyan 3.5 than the new super saiyan 4.

That isn't really true. SSJG > SSJ4. One of the guidebooks, can't remember which, says SSJ Vegetto is possibly more powerful than SSJ4 Goku. And Birusu + SSJG Goku are both stronger than SSJ Vegetto which would mean by extension that SSJG outranks SSJ4 in terms of a multiplier. So SSJG Goku GT would be stronger than SSJ4 Goku GT.

Exactly. I've heard that SSJ Vegetto was on par with SSJ4(during Baby saga) or slightly stronger, but I still think SSJ4 Goku beyond SSJ4 limits overclasses SSJ Vegeto, and may be equal with SSJ3 Vegetto. But in that same time Goku could guess that SSJ3 Vegetto was also little against Beerus, and Vegetto could go SSJ3 if Gotenks did. I don't know SSJ4 Gogeta could rival with Beerus, but the strongest potara fusion being on the highest known super saiyan level probably would have failed.

[Hitiro]

Exactly. I've heard that SSJ Vegetto was on par with SSJ4(during Baby saga) or slightly stronger, but I still think SSJ4 Goku beyond SSJ4 limits overclasses SSJ Vegeto, and may be equal with SSJ3 Vegetto. But in that same time Goku could guess that SSJ3 Vegetto was also little against Beerus, and Vegetto could go SSJ3 if Gotenks did. I don't know SSJ4 Gogeta could rival with Beerus, but the strongest potara fusion being on the highest known super saiyan level probably would have failed.

What exactly is "SSJ4 Goku beyond SSJ4 limits"? As far as I'm aware Goku maintained the same level all the way through GT. He never got stronger than he already was.

[KentalSSJ6]

SSJ4 and SSJG can very well exist beside each other as both their methods of attainment are far different than SSJ1-3. SSJ4 is more of a evolution and SSJG is more of a power up.

Coupling that with Base Goku now the same as SSJG Goku power wise, there really is no comparison anymore.

[Hitiro]

SSJ4 and SSJG can very well exist beside each other as both their methods of attainment are far different than SSJ1-3. SSJ4 is more of a evolution and SSJG is more of a power up.

Coupling that with Base Goku now the same as SSJG Goku power wise, there really is no comparison anymore.

Is it stated he got all the power from SSJG in his base? Or did he absorb just some of it? That is I got from what was said in the movie. But if he absorbed the whole power into his base form then SSJ4 wouldn't be needed in GT as Base Goku would wipe the floor with everyone, lol.

[KentalSSJ6]

SSJ4 and SSJG can very well exist beside each other as both their methods of attainment are far different than SSJ1-3. SSJ4 is more of a evolution and SSJG is more of a power up.

Coupling that with Base Goku now the same as SSJG Goku power wise, there really is no comparison anymore.

Is it stated he got all the power from SSJG in his base? Or did he absorb just some of it? That is I got from what was said in the movie. But if he absorbed the whole power into his base form then SSJ4 wouldn't be needed in GT as Base Goku would wipe the floor with everyone, lol.

My theory with the whole absorbing SSJG thing is that he's sort of always in the form power wise, and takes on the form's actual appearance when he goes 100% (as shown when he absorbs and nullifies Beerus's attack). How SSJ factors into it I still dont quite know. Maybe it helps brings out the percentage of SSJG's power, maybe it stacks on it, no idea.

Its rather pointless trying to come up with conclusions. For all we know Goku may lose SSJG and its powers in a future film. There is still a sizable timeskip between Z and GT so Toei can do whatever they want in that gap.

[Hitiro]

SSJ4 and SSJG can very well exist beside each other as both their methods of attainment are far different than SSJ1-3. SSJ4 is more of a evolution and SSJG is more of a power up.

Coupling that with Base Goku now the same as SSJG Goku power wise, there really is no comparison anymore.

Is it stated he got all the power from SSJG in his base? Or did he absorb just some of it? That is I got from what was said in the movie. But if he absorbed the whole power into his base form then SSJ4 wouldn't be needed in GT as Base Goku would wipe the floor with everyone, lol.

My theory with the whole absorbing SSJG thing is that he's sort of always in the form power wise, and takes on the form's actual appearance when he goes 100% (as shown when he absorbs and nullifies Beerus's attack). How SSJ factors into it I still dont quite know. Maybe it helps brings out the percentage of SSJG's power, maybe it stacks on it, no idea.

Its rather pointless trying to come up with conclusions. For all we know Goku may lose SSJG and its powers in a future film. There is still a sizable timeskip between Z and GT so Toei can do whatever they want in that gap.

Seems weird to lose ki. Especially when that never happens in the story. And how are they going to get around not using SSJG in GT when there are enough people to initiate the form in GT? How are they going to explain that the form just vanishes, lol.

[KentalSSJ6]

Again, anything can happen in that gap between Z and GT.

Perhaps the SSJG ritual eventually wears off over time (which is what I think happened to Gohan's Mystic form in GT). Maybe they encounter a foe who can remove it. Again its way too early to tell and make conclusions right now when anything can still happen. Best to avoid speculation and be patient till more information comes up.

[Hitiro]

Again, anything can happen in that gap between Z and GT.

Perhaps the SSJG ritual eventually wears off over time (which is what I think happened to Gohan's Mystic form in GT). Maybe they encounter a foe who can remove it. Again its way too early to tell and make conclusions right now when anything can still happen. Best to avoid speculation and be patient till more information comes up.

Well.. That doesn't really change the fact that they can re-apply the form in GT. In such a case wouldn't it be wise considering it outranks the SSJ4 form?

[KentalSSJ6]

Again, anything can happen in that gap between Z and GT.

Perhaps the SSJG ritual eventually wears off over time (which is what I think happened to Gohan's Mystic form in GT). Maybe they encounter a foe who can remove it. Again its way too early to tell and make conclusions right now when anything can still happen. Best to avoid speculation and be patient till more information comes up.

Well.. That doesn't really change the fact that they can re-apply the form in GT. In such a case wouldn't it be wise considering it outranks the SSJ4 form?

No facts are there to be changed. Again, if Toei does intend to further connect Z and GT they could easily do so in a new film. Your drawing up conclusions when there is no concrete evidence to prove them.

Its just like those people who say GT never happened because of the Pilaf Gang's age in BOG. Nothing says they didnt get ahold of the balls again and wish to be older, resulting in their elderly forms seen in GT. See what I'm talking about here?

[Cetra]

People are thinking too much about it anyway. If Dragon Ball Z can exist flawed as it is, GT can exist with it. And if intended it can still be explained or parts retconned.

[Hitiro]

People are thinking too much about it anyway. If Dragon Ball Z can exist flawed as it is, GT can exist with it. And if intended it can still be explained or parts retconned.

Well, as many flaws DBZ has GT takes the icing of the cake in the department of flaws, lol.

[Cetra]

People are thinking too much about it anyway. If Dragon Ball Z can exist flawed as it is, GT can exist with it. And if intended it can still be explained or parts retconned.

Well, as many flaws DBZ has GT takes the icing of the cake in the department of flaws, lol.

Seriously not. I can mention flaws of DB that fans just don't know or would have bad non-official excuses for and which they would never accept for GT. If something is wanted to be hated, it gets hated.

[Hitiro]

People are thinking too much about it anyway. If Dragon Ball Z can exist flawed as it is, GT can exist with it. And if intended it can still be explained or parts retconned.

Well, as many flaws DBZ has GT takes the icing of the cake in the department of flaws, lol.

Seriously not. I can mention flaws of DB that fans just don't know or would have bad non-official excuses for and which they would never accept for GT. If something is wanted to be hated, it gets hated.

Seriously true. GT has tons of flaws considering it only has 64 episodes. It is understandable for DBZ because it has almost 5 times the amount of episodes.

[Hellspawn28]

I still view SSjG as a special form. I would like to see AT do his own SSj4 and GT's SSj4 can be retcon as a "Primal Saiyan" form. Or just retcon GT's SSj4 form in general since GT is not apart of the manga.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Toriyama mentioned in an interview that Goku doesn't need to transform into SSJ God as he has kept its power.

That would explain why base GT Goku defeated Cell and Freeza without the need to transform into SSj. But then there's Vegeta-Baby whom Goku struggled so much against....

[Cetra]

Seriously true. GT has tons of flaws considering it only has 64 episodes. It is understandable for DBZ because it has almost 5 times the amount of episodes.

Which is exactly the kind of answer, another bad excuse like people always do when defending DBZ, I expected from you and makes the discussion pointless since you will never accept that is is not like this and that GT has the right to have flaws as much as DBZ does. It is the same kind of answer I will get from you again so I won't even bother reading anymore. Multiple people know, as flawed as GT is, it has the right to be flawed and defending DBZs flaws with ridiculous passion but chasing GT with torches out of the villages for its own then is even more ridiculous. Accept that "Saint" DBZ is not perfect and it doesn't matter at all why it isn't as they are both written by people and that alone can justify the flaws if anything. People make mistakes.

The flaws in DBZ are minor in comparison to GT's ones. The flaws in the first episode of GT alone destroy any semblance of a story as those gaping flaws, if they were fixed, would attribute to the GT story never happening in the first place.

Which is as wrong as it can be.