Unpopular DB opinions

[Kamiccolo9]

At what point did people stop enjoying self contained episodes? I'm not talking about DB, but in general. At some point it went from stand alones being the norm, "oh, this is kinda neat, it's all connected" to "FUCK, it's a stand alone!" They aren't even standalone episodes in the strictest sense, they are part of a quest to find the Dragon Balls.

GT has a lot of faults, but I like the humor, the new worlds, Giru, and yes, even Pan. The thing I didn't like is the fights, and I wish the other characters had played a more integral part in the last arc.

The tone, style, cast and Goku of the 350+ episodes directly proceeding it obviously.

Goku's not a different character, his body just changes.

As far as I can tell, it's when Batman the Animated Series and Gargoyles stopped airing. I personally haven't seen any animated show built around self contained episodes that I've really liked since then.

[ABED]

What about Superman the animated series, Buffy, Supernatural, Psych, The Office, etc. Even shows that have long story arcs have standalone elements (e.g. Burn Notice, Dexter...) Some of Supernatural and Buffy's best episodes are standalones (the Wish, the Zeppo, Superstar).

Here's the big question, what makes arc episodes so inherently better?

I doubt it was Batman and Gargoyles that signaled the end. This seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst a large group of TV watchers. Although, who knows how big it is, procedurals are still bringing in HUGE ratings.

[Kamiccolo9]

What about Superman the animated series, Buffy, Supernatural, Psych, The Office, etc. Even shows that have long story arcs have standalone elements (e.g. Burn Notice, Dexter...) Some of Supernatural and Buffy's best episodes are standalones (the Wish, the Zeppo, Superstar).

Here's the big question, what makes arc episodes so inherently better?

I doubt it was Batman and Gargoyles that signaled the end. This seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst a large group of TV watchers. Although, who knows how big it is, procedurals are still bringing in HUGE ratings.

Well, I specified animated shows in my post.

I was never a big fan of Superman, though George Newburn's voice is probably my favorite take on the character.

As for your question, the answer is nothing. I personally just prefer story arcs to standalone episodes, since, in my experience, most of the shows I like are more arc-based.

[ABED]

I love arc based episodes as well, but standalone episodes can be great. I don't get the almost hatred people have to standalones, regardless of their actual quality.

[DBZAOTA482]

but I like the humor

GT doesn't have much humor, though.

Goku's not a different character, his body just changes.

Goku is more arrogant and less serious (specifically in the first half), and his quirks (trypanopobia and saiyan appetite) are exaggeratted.

[Basaku]

Goku's not a different character, his body just changes.

No, his kiddo traits are amplified. For all purpouses it's like watching Goku from 400 episodes prior, with the occasional "ohh remember he's still actually adult, isn't it funny haha?". And again, what purpouse did it serve? We sure didn't discover another layer of Goku character that could only be uncovered if he got stuck in child body again.

There's no point to it, it was nothing more than an attempt to imitate something long gone and it's one of the key GT issues that contributed to ratings slide that never went back up.

[baneofdemon22]

I love arc based episodes as well, but standalone episodes can be great. I don't get the almost hatred people have to standalones, regardless of their actual quality.

They're usually my favorite episodes since they are so self contained. But they can add to the characters' development, although they don't have to. Like the JLU episode "This Little Piggy" is stand alone, but it showed more of the Wonder Woman/Batman relationship, and had a lot of great cameos. I guess it didn't add much to the overall story, but that's not a complaint at all. I love it! Actually it does add to the overall story/experience to me, and I hate everything dismissed as "filler". I love all of it, so I too find it strange that there's even an issue with it. I guess people will look down on me for this, but I thought Smallville did a good job balancing it as well. I haven't watched TV on a weekly basis besides Breaking Bad and people freaked over the episode, "The Fly." I thought it was fantastic. I love shows that act as stand a lone episodes, but if you watch them in order, it's rewarding. Kind of like Fry and Leela's relationship in the first four seasons of Futurama. The first 8 seasons of the Simpsons felt like it had a sort of continuity even though they were completely stand alone. When I looked at lists showing worst Dragon Ball Z episodes, most, if not all, were stand a lone episodes, and I was sad to see "He's Always Late" on it multiple times. All those episodes with Goku training on his own before the 22nd and 23rd Tournament were a blast to watch. I love the characters and their universe, so if the episode is good, I'm all for it!

[ABED]

Goku's a kid at heart, so what traits are amplified? There's no deeper meaning behind it than it's cute and funny. If you are looking for deep meaning, you're watching the wrong show.

GT doesn't have much humor, though.

I think it's funny, and what people find funny is a very subjective assessment.

Goku is more arrogant and less serious (specifically in the first half), and his quirks (trypanopobia and saiyan appetite) are exaggeratted.

Now you are looking for stuff to hate about it, his appetite is the same as it always was. I don't know where you are getting arrogant from, and nothing that serious happens to him early on. I honestly don't see a different.

people freaked over the episode, "The Fly." I thought it was fantastic.

I got the feeling that people generally love that episode. I thought it was overrated. However, I agree overall with your assessment of standalones. I love The Zeppo, it's such a great episode. Buffy is an excellent series, and this is in my Top 5 of the entire series.

[Kid Buu]

I love arc based episodes as well, but standalone episodes can be great. I don't get the almost hatred people have to standalones, regardless of their actual quality.

I only see this bizarre hatred for them in anime, never for Western stuff do I see people complain.

[ABED]

I love arc based episodes as well, but standalone episodes can be great. I don't get the almost hatred people have to standalones, regardless of their actual quality.

I only see this bizarre hatred for them in anime, never for Western stuff do I see people complain.

Really? I see it all the time on forums for shows like Supernatural, Arrow, Smallville, and Power Rangers.

I found this reason why Toei decided to make Goku younger: The scriptwriters felt that it would be too hard to do anything with the adult Gokuu after he defeated Majin Buu. Further, the show has always revolved around Gokuu's growing stronger. So, the writers decided to make him a child again, and take away his teleport ability.

[rereboy]

I only care if the episode is good or not.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I think part of the hatred for stand-alone episodes, at least in regards to anime, is because of how common that is in US animation. A lot of people who get into anime are attracted by how different it is from our own animation, primarily the storylines that build and keep going, where there's consequences (even if it's just a joke set up) and you need to try to keep watching in order to follow along. So when a series that has a pretty continuous storyline suddenly has a one-off episode, it rubs a lot of anime fans the wrong way unfortunately.

[ABED]

I only care if the episode is good or not.

Amen, sir.

[Kid Buu]

Really? I see it all the time on forums for shows like Supernatural, Arrow, Smallville, and Power Rangers.

Didn't know that. When Buffy was an on-going show I never heard complaints about standalone episode.

But yeah, in the anime fandom I've noticed that when show presents episodes not relevant to a larger plot, fans kneejerk scream "filler!" These episode should be judged on their own merits. Hell, my favourite episode of Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha are both filler episodes.

I run a Sailor Moon community and people complain that the show is 90% filler and nothing happens in the series.

[ABED]

Really? I see it all the time on forums for shows like Supernatural, Arrow, Smallville, and Power Rangers.

Didn't know that. When Buffy was an on-going show I never heard complaints about standalone episode.

But yeah, in the anime fandom I've noticed that when show presents episodes not relevant to a larger plot, fans kneejerk scream "filler!" These episode should be judged on their own merits. Hell, my favourite episode of Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha are both filler episodes.

I run a Sailor Moon community and people complain that the show is 90% filler and nothing happens in the series.

I think this attitude has become more prevalent in the wake of streaming and binge watching.

[rereboy]

Really? I see it all the time on forums for shows like Supernatural, Arrow, Smallville, and Power Rangers.

Didn't know that. When Buffy was an on-going show I never heard complaints about standalone episode.

Buffy hardly has few actual standalone episodes. Practically every episode further the main arc, even when its a monster of the week episode, there are often important parts for the main arc.

[Kid Buu]

Really? S1 and S2 felt like they had quite a few standalones.

[rereboy]

Really? S1 and S2 felt like they had quite a few standalones.

A good example is Hush. Its a monster of the week episode, but crucial stuff happen in it between Buffy and Riley. Most standalones have stuff like that.

[ABED]

Nearly every season of Buffy has a lot of standalones. The stories of the week begin and end in the hour. They might have an element with the main plot but sometimes that's not true.

Every episode of 24 is an arc episode, and unfortunately, the quality often suffers and sags in the middle.

Getting back to GT, I enjoyed the part where Goku gets "kidnapped", and his friends are non-chalant. I even enjoyed the episodes where Goku and Co. were on Imegga.

[Basaku]

Continuing with picking on GT train - love SSJ4 and Golden Ozaru, but damn me if it's not completly underdeveloped, not properly explained and not thought-out well at all. We go Golden Ozaru from normal one, ok, not easy to assume/conclude this form is available to all Saiyans who achieved Super form in 'human' mode. But how does it lead to SSJ4? Just "ohh imma go human form now"? We don't see Vegeta doing any power up at all when going from Golden Ozaru to SSJ4, Goku goes as soon as he gets his brains back. So basically you can just jump straight from SSJ1 to SSJ4 as long as you can contain yourself in Oozaru form? That's kinda cheap.

Overall I wish they just named this form Super Ozaru, or Perfect Ozaru or something, keep it in Ozaru line of transformations. Not THAT bothered by it being SSJ4 but the design is obviously heavily different from SSJ1-3 and it's not a natural progression to SSJ1-3 at all, it's an Ozaru progression. And there definitely should've been some pre-requisite to achieving the human-Ozaru hybrid form when going from Golden Ozaru, not just "because he felt like it at the moment". And they probably shouldn't make it stronger than SSJ3 but different, having some advantage over SSJ3 while at the same time having some disatvantage.