New Toriyama plot holes?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Recently, Toriyama has created new stories (BoG, Jaco, DB-), and has had many interviews about in-universe things. And of course, these weren't without plot holes.

So, what contradictions to the manga are there in all these?

[B]

I believe Goku's age is a little flubbed up now, because he wasn't born the day/year he was sent off to Earth. Knowledgeable user TheDevilsCorpse has talked at length about it.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's worse than plotholes. It's Toriyama literally saying that "the manga says this, but actually, what happened was..."

[TheGmGoken]

It's worse than plotholes. It's Toriyama literally saying that "the manga says this, but actually, what happened was..."

I hated when he said that. It's like disrespecting your own work. "The manga says that Piccolo is a Nanek BUT actually he's a hybrids of a Majin and Namek. Hence why He can become a demon." Sounds stupid right?

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

[Low Tone G]

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

Yeah I didn't like it either. Whis did not know about SSJ God, not even the Old Kai, and neither King Kai did. But if Whis didn't, not a big deal, but if Vegeta didn't know either, or other saiyans, AND Freeza did, that's too much! How could he? If the saiyans didn't mention it as it was treated its legend to be a shame for a rutless saiyan society.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

This isn't the thread to complain about Toriyama's new ideas, it's a thread about the plot-holes. Please keep the discussion on-topic.

[B]

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING.

Two. Two things.

This complaint is really funny when this is basically what everyone and their mom asked for. If it's inconsequential information, like a character's real name or what they did after the story, it's met with "So? Who cares? Why did I need to know this? So useless! Go back to sleep, Toriyama!" Alternatively, if it's actually correlating to the story, it's met with "Fuck! Why is he changing things!" It's set up where no new information could possibly please anyone.

[Kaboom]

I believe Goku's age is a little flubbed up now, because he wasn't born the day/year he was sent off to Earth. Knowledgeable user TheDevilsCorpse has talked at length about it.

It seems to be that Goku's age hasn't changed any, only when Planet Vegeta was destroyed in relation to it. Instead of happening the day after he's born, it now doesn't happen until he's about 3 years old.

That said, Toriyama's "revised" age/date setup from Dragon Ball Minus doesn't strictly contradict anything in the original manga as he wrote it. A three-year-old can still be considered a "baby," and Raditz picturing li'l Kakarrot as an infant can just mean that's how he last saw him (which Raditz being off on a mission in Minus allows for).

In fact, the revised date for Planet Vegeta's destruction fixes what WAS a supposed inconsistency from Battle of Gods, if I'm not mistaken.

[TheGmGoken]

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

This isn't the thread to complain about Toriyama's new ideas, it's a thread about the plot-holes. Please keep the discussion on-topic.

I kept on topic. Freeza fearing SSG not Ssj. Then again is that a recton or a plot hole?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

A three-year-old can still be considered a "baby,"

He is referred as a baby even in DB-. There is no plot-hole here.

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

This isn't the thread to complain about Toriyama's new ideas, it's a thread about the plot-holes. Please keep the discussion on-topic.

I kept on topic. Freeza fearing SSG not Ssj. Then again is that a recton or a plot hole?

It's not a plot hole, it's an addition. In DB-, Freeza was worried about both SS and SSGod. There isn't any contradiction here.

[TheGmGoken]

And I'm guessing Beerus was the one who told him?

Yeah I didn't like it either. Whis did not know about SSJ God, not even the Old Kai, and neither King Kai did. But if Whis didn't, not a big deal, but if Vegeta didn't know either, or other saiyans, AND Freeza did, that's too much! How could he? If the saiyans didn't mention it as it was treated its legend to be a shame for a rutless saiyan society.

[Herms]

In fact, the revised date for Planet Vegeta's destruction fixes what WAS a supposed inconsistency from Battle of Gods, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, the whole "Beerus sleeps for 39 years, but thinks Planet Vegeta was destroyed while he was asleep", which didn't quite square with the time-frame for when Planet Vegeta was destroyed versus when BoG takes place. The Chouzenshuu 4 timeline for instance gives us this sequence:

Age 737: Goku born, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 778: Beerus wakes up (739+39=778), BoG occurs

But with DB Minus, if we assume Goku was still born the same year as before, then since he was in the pod thingy 3 years before being sent to Earth, we get this:

Age 737: Goku born
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 740: Goku sent to Earth, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 778: Beerus wakes up, BoG occurs

[Low Tone G]

And I'm guessing Beerus was the one who told him?

Yeah I didn't like it either. Whis did not know about SSJ God, not even the Old Kai, and neither King Kai did. But if Whis didn't, not a big deal, but if Vegeta didn't know either, or other saiyans, AND Freeza did, that's too much! How could he? If the saiyans didn't mention it as it was treated its legend to be a shame for a rutless saiyan society.

But Beerus told he met the SSJ God in his dreams. He had a slumber for 39 years so Freeza could only have heard this from saiyans, but Shenlon said in the B.o.G. the this legend was erased from the others, as saiyans prefered the legend of Super Saiyan to keep it, just because it revealed a very powerful saiyan who was rutless, just like they are.

Kaboom wrote:
In fact, the revised date for Planet Vegeta's destruction fixes what WAS a supposed inconsistency from Battle of Gods, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, the whole "Beerus sleeps for 39 years, but thinks Planet Vegeta was destroyed while he was asleep", which didn't quite square with the time-frame for when Planet Vegeta was destroyed versus when BoG takes place. The Chouzenshuu 4 timeline for instance gives us this sequence:

Age 737: Goku born, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 778: Beerus wakes up (739+39=778), BoG occurs

But with DB Minus, if we assume Goku was still born the same year as before, then since he was in the pod thingy 3 years before being sent to Earth, we get this:

Age 737: Goku born
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 740: Goku sent to Earth, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 778: Beerus wakes up, BoG occurs

Yeah, but when was the Chouzenshuu 4 timeline created?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Yeah, the whole "Beerus sleeps for 39 years, but thinks Planet Vegeta was destroyed while he was asleep", which didn't quite square with the time-frame for when Planet Vegeta was destroyed versus when BoG takes place. The Chouzenshuu 4 timeline for instance gives us this sequence:

Age 737: Goku born, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 778: Beerus wakes up (739+39=778), BoG occurs

But with DB Minus, if we assume Goku was still born the same year as before, then since he was in the pod thingy 3 years before being sent to Earth, we get this:

Age 737: Goku born
Age 739: Beerus goes to sleep
Age 740: Goku sent to Earth, Planet Vegeta destroyed
Age 778: Beerus wakes up, BoG occurs

It get's more complicated than that though, too. Working off the second timeline and working in Bluma's age (5 years old) and Omori's statement of how long Jaco takes place before DB starts (10 years), assuming Jaco occurs the same year Goku was sent off.

AGE 737: Goku is born
AGE 739: Beerus goes to sleep
AGE 735: Bluma is born (might be 734 if she's 5 going on 6, but that's still not 733)
AGE 740: Goku sent to Earth, Planet Vegeta destroyed, Jaco fails on Earth
AGE 750: Dragon Ball starts (Supposed to be 749)
~Everything else would shift a year...~
AGE 778: Beerus wakes up, BoG occurs

It could kinda work if you assume Omori was rounding up from 9 to 10, if Gine was rounding up to 3 from 2 and some change so that it was still 739, or whatever. We have nothing official addressing this for the time being, so who knows.

[Attitudefan]

It's worse than plotholes. It's Toriyama literally saying that "the manga says this, but actually, what happened was..."

I hated when he said that. It's like disrespecting your own work. "The manga says that Piccolo is a Nanek BUT actually he's a hybrids of a Majin and Namek. Hence why He can become a demon." Sounds stupid right?

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

That actually makes sense since he was divinely split from the Namek who wanted to become God. Thus, by splitting his good and evil sides, this was done in heaven too, that the bad side was like a fallen angel, cast away from heaven. He became a devil or a demon. It fits the manga fine and even biblical lore as well.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Honestly I could let that go if BoG wasn't inserted in EVERY FUCKING THING. Beerus did it! Freeza feared not SSJ but Super saiyan GOD. Come on now...

I was more annoyed with the overuse of the "....Well on Planet Vegeta" legend being the source of everything even foreshadowed into BoG. I honestly would have rathered some originality or progression, SSJG would have been more mythical if it was something entirely new that came out of the result of an etheral feat introduced by a new subject, even foreshadowed by the Kais if most likely... not just out of another thing Freeza doesnt like.. Or Freeza being the source of everything else opposing Goku. It makes the series feel redundant with the circular retconing. Though he only uses Freeza because he was the highest recieved antagonist, but even still. Hes milking him through the fact. Bibidi could have been an equal source of the same plotline in BoG and it wouldnt have made a difference except potentially expand them both simultaneously.

I can see Akira Toriyama is trying hard to make his relevance seemless though he would have had an easier time doing so with Omega Shenron. Their connections to canon are at least possible even outside GT, where as Beerus' very presence feels a bit forced now. He may be canon but he isnt that important to the story itself, just a segway into a new arc.There is no reason he needs to tamper with old ones, just make up new history for his own existance.

[Payne222]

Unless it's one of his one shots, there's gonna be plot holes. It's Toriyama.

[DieHard]

It seems to be that Goku's age hasn't changed any, only when Planet Vegeta was destroyed in relation to it. Instead of happening the day after he's born, it now doesn't happen until he's about 3 years old.

That said, Toriyama's "revised" age/date setup from Dragon Ball Minus doesn't strictly contradict anything in the original manga as he wrote it. A three-year-old can still be considered a "baby," and Raditz picturing li'l Kakarrot as an infant can just mean that's how he last saw him (which Raditz being off on a mission in Minus allows for).

In fact, the revised date for Planet Vegeta's destruction fixes what WAS a supposed inconsistency from Battle of Gods, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think it is fixing anything from BOG.The manga never showed goku being sent to earth,but in the manga raditz said goku should REMEMBER his mission,so he should have be a few years old,right?

[Low Tone G]

It seems to be that Goku's age hasn't changed any, only when Planet Vegeta was destroyed in relation to it. Instead of happening the day after he's born, it now doesn't happen until he's about 3 years old.

That said, Toriyama's "revised" age/date setup from Dragon Ball Minus doesn't strictly contradict anything in the original manga as he wrote it. A three-year-old can still be considered a "baby," and Raditz picturing li'l Kakarrot as an infant can just mean that's how he last saw him (which Raditz being off on a mission in Minus allows for).

In fact, the revised date for Planet Vegeta's destruction fixes what WAS a supposed inconsistency from Battle of Gods, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think it is fixing anything from BOG.The manga never showed goku being sent to earth,but in the manga raditz said goku should REMEMBER his mission,so he should have be a few years old,right?

Yeah, nice point. I've always wondered how could the saiyans give such a great mission to a new-born baby, when an usual human can remember almost nothing from his childhood before his 3-4 years old age. So we could have assumed that saiyans are different, but if Toriyama came up with the new growth lilt of full blooded saiyans that they have a very long childhood, so they became less conscious, then we had thought to be. It's more believable to have Goku sent to Earth being older than a new-born baby, even if Raditz was wrong about Goku to have the mission to destroy the humans.

[Basaku]

That's why prequels are a storytelling minefield. It makes no sense to have Freeza retroactively know and fear SSJG, too much of the original arc was about fearing SSJ to make it any plausible he (nor anyone else) would mention SSJG