Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.
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Cold Skin
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Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Cold Skin » Tue May 06, 2014 12:04 pm

What are nice ideas or features that previous games had and that you would like to see appearing in one of the next games?
Three ideas come to my mind right now, but there are many more good things previous games did that would deserve to be carried over to some of the new games.

(Note that my pictures don't fully represent the original Super NES games, as those have slightly - yet obvious - tweaked elements to them - like the writings.
But they are the only ones I happen to have in my files right now...)

1) A MULTIPLE-BRANCHING STORY

A nice feature from Super Butoden was a story mode that could be influenced by your decisions as well as your victories and defeats (rather than defeats leading to a "Retry?" or "Game Over").
It had a good replayability as the player was often curious to reproduce the original story as much as possible, but also explore another road:
what if Trunks had been the most powerful warrior chosen by Goku during the Cell Game?
what if Vegeta had been killed by Bojack and Zangya due to poor decisions on your part?
what if you had been aware of a trap and able to play around it rather than getting tricked?

There was no actual way to lose, as the story went on various paths to keep going.
Following certain condition would lead to two "superboss" secret battles and a "true ending".
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The story mode in Super Butoden 2 would allow you to stick to the original plot or tweak it - willingly or unwillingly.
There were a lot of surprising twists and variations to discover by playing it over again.
2) PARTICULARITIES OF SOME STAGES

From what I remember, very few stages in the latest games have an actual influence on gameplay (but maybe it just comes from my very basic way to play them). There can be buildings you can destroy, but that doesn't change many things in the way you play. The most game-changer element is the Tenkaichi Budokai stage that happens to be very narrow horizontally and extremely expanded vertically compared to regular stages, which is refreshing.

But back then, in the Super Butoden series, some stages implied particular rules that would have an influence on your usual way to play it.

Playing underwater would drastically slow the action down if I remember well, something you had to take in account in your reactions, inputs and attempts to surprise a human opponent who could much more easily "see you coming" when you tried an attack or a special move. You could fly up slightly above water for a while, but ending up locked in underwater fighting was pretty much unavoidable at some point, and you had to be ready for it.

Playing in Babidi's spaceship would cancel any possibility to fly, taking out the usual vertical aspect of stages and forcing players to rely solely on the ground level, which made some strategies impossible or harder to perform.

Stages could have an actual influence on the way you played that could cause some handicap to some players depending on the way they usually played.
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Babidi's spaceship would turn off part of the gameplay, as no flight option existed, locking players in a much more direct fight.
With enough creativity, game designers could also think of it as the opposite:
a level entirely based on verticality through the various floors, with very little horizontal space around.
3. FEWER CHARACTERS, EACH ONE HAVING THEIR OWN STYLE/ASSETS/MOVES

This is an idea that not everyone is going to like depending on their preferences, because some like to use Dragon Ball games sort of like a giant collection of toy soldiers they can use to recreate battles between hundreds of potential characters.
I would rather have less characters available, but each one having their own set of special moves and their own particularities and perks in the gameplay.
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Back then, it was common to have no more than ten characters (including the secret ones) at most.
Of course, we need to have more than that nowadays, but do we need 200 characters?
Or do we rather need them all to have their own set of unique animations and moves influencing the gameplay in various ways?

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Flame Dragon » Thu May 08, 2014 9:00 am

I'm okay with a roster of 20, well designed, unique characters instead of 200 characters all cloned from eachother.
I never got bored playing Mortal Kombat 9 even with only 28 Fighters. Just because every character was fun to play while being different.
Bring back Stretchy Arms Piccolo and make him a zoning character for example.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by chaospunishment » Thu May 08, 2014 9:28 am

Flame Dragon wrote:Bring back Stretchy Arms Piccolo and make him a zoning character for example.
XD Burst Limit Piccolo


I wish they'd bring back the unique pursuit enders from Shin Budokai 2. Some of them like Gotenks' are very good.

Transformations should drain Ki like B1/2.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by MajinVegetaSSj6 » Thu May 08, 2014 12:16 pm

I just want the Build up mode from Final Bout...with PL and Battle pPower...

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Cold Skin » Fri May 09, 2014 1:26 pm

chaospunishment wrote: Transformations should drain Ki like B1/2.
It would actually make a good reason not to transform, because it most games, you wanna say: "why not transforming since it mostly only has advantages and no added flaws".
However, I remember in Budokai that some of the highest transformations ended up being quite punitive, given how fast your ki was drained. Sometimes, when you were at 5 ki gauges, you would transform for a power boost that's not so great, and end up untransforming with 1 ki gauge left less than 30 seconds later...
MajinVegetaSSj6 wrote:I just want the Build up mode from Final Bout...with PL and Battle pPower...
What was that? (never played Final Bout, but I remember the English dub for the game is quite... entertaining :roll:).

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by chaospunishment » Fri May 09, 2014 2:47 pm

It's a mode where the more you do a certain type of move (Punch, Kick and Ki Blast) the more powerful those type of attacks become.

There's also a lvl system that only changes how much max HP you have.

Different hit effects also appear as your hits become more powerful.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun May 11, 2014 5:24 am

Flame Dragon wrote:I'm okay with a roster of 20, well designed, unique characters instead of 200 characters all cloned from eachother.
I never got bored playing Mortal Kombat 9 even with only 28 Fighters. Just because every character was fun to play while being different.
Bring back Stretchy Arms Piccolo and make him a zoning character for example.
I dunno I think 20 would be a bit low for me personally. Budokai 3 and Infinite World had around 40 odd and still managed to be great fighters with unique characters. Super DBZ had around 20 or so if i remember right but that ended up getting old fast.

I'd love to see the Saiyan Overdrive fighting system carried over to a PS4/Xbox One game. That and a B3 style story mode.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Quebaz » Sun May 11, 2014 5:55 am

90sDBZ wrote: I dunno I think 20 would be a bit low for me personally. Budokai 3 and Infinite World had around 40 odd and still managed to be great fighters with unique characters. Super DBZ had around 20 or so if i remember right but that ended up getting old fast.

I'd love to see the Saiyan Overdrive fighting system carried over to a PS4/Xbox One game. That and a B3 style story mode.
If in the distant future, a sequel to Shin Butouden was out, I'd have the roster be a 52. Adding all the characters from SSW2, Hyper Dimension and Super DBZ and a few ones to fill the gaps to the existing one from Shin Butouden and BAM, you have a small roster in comparison to some more extravagant DBZ games but it's big and varied enough to keep things interesting.
Also heck yes a multiple-branching story would be so good.
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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Cold Skin » Fri May 16, 2014 2:07 pm

Here goes some more things I thought were good ideas, but if they truly were, the game developers would think of them.

1. 2D ANIME/MANGA CHARACTERS IN THE MENUS

The first Budokai game had those great 2D renders for characters, and more than one per fighter: for each character, they had actually drawn one 2D anime render for the character selection screen and one for the Tenkaichi Budokai "VS" screens. Plus nice 2D artworks for the main menu!

Budokai 3 would also have 2D renders exclusive to the story mode (sadly not on the character selection screen anymore).

The Budokai Tenkaichi (or Sparking) series would later have their menus filled with 2D characters, especially with the third episode using those characters to welcome you in the various menus and explain things to you in their own personal ways.
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You can hardly be in a more "Dragon Ball-ish" spirit than by using impressive anime-style or manga-style 2D sprites!
Some of them even reference well-known artworks (like Gohan and Videl in the car).
Even the "dragon logo" from the early chapters of the manga is there!
2. "REAL" CUTSCENES

By real cutscenes, I mean cutscenes that are more than just "let's take those playable characters and this playable stage and make some wannabe-animation to make it look like a cutscene as much as we can". I want more than "opportunist" quick cutscenes with the rest being replaced by endless text and three photos.

I'm talking about cutscenes showing - even briefly - minor/casual events, with places recreated specifically for the cutscenes (Capsule Corp, Kame House...), models created specifically for cutscenes if necessary (Bulma, Chichi, Kame Sennin...), etc...
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Yes, showing all of those casual scenes faithfully is as important as showing the big popular scenes.
And the first
Budokai nailed it so well that no other game managed to have such a compelling story mode ever since.
You had the feeling of seeing a new version of the show, not missing any event since everything was shown even briefly.
You followed a real story that felt visually complete, and not pieces of a story with missing parts covered by text.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Darknat » Fri May 16, 2014 2:26 pm

Cold Skin wrote:Here goes some more things I thought were good ideas, but if they truly were, the game developers would think of them.

1. 2D ANIME/MANGA CHARACTERS IN THE MENUS

2. "REAL" CUTSCENES
I really agree with 2 two points. Later games menus seem so empty and could be from any random game. I like the Dragon Ball Sparking Meteor menus a lot more than the ones on games like Raging Blast 2 or Battle of Z.

About cutscenes, I also agree with that, but if they add too much detail to the story that way, I don't think they'll add branches to the storyline (well, maybe one or two could be possible but not much else).

What I'll want personally is to start from the begining. Dragon Ball original series tends to be forgotten and it shouldn't.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Fri May 16, 2014 2:27 pm

Cold Skin wrote: 2. "REAL" CUTSCENES

By real cutscenes, I mean cutscenes that are more than just "let's take those playable characters and this playable stage and make some wannabe-animation to make it look like a cutscene as much as we can". I want more than "opportunist" quick cutscenes with the rest being replaced by endless text and three photos.

I'm talking about cutscenes showing - even briefly - minor/casual events, with places recreated specifically for the cutscenes (Capsule Corp, Kame House...), models created specifically for cutscenes if necessary (Bulma, Chichi, Kame Sennin...), etc...
ImageImage
ImageImage
Yes, showing all of those casual scenes faithfully is as important as showing the big popular scenes.
And the first
Budokai nailed it so well that no other game managed to have such a compelling story mode ever since.
You had the feeling of seeing a new version of the show, not missing any event since everything was shown even briefly.
You followed a real story that felt visually complete, and not pieces of a story with missing parts covered by text.
*Sigh* I miss Budokai 1's story mode so damn much. If they would just bring out a game that brought back that story mode and covered the entire series (even if it's just the normal "Z"-era story mode that they always do) they would have my money in a heartbeat.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Cold Skin » Fri May 16, 2014 3:26 pm

^ Same here. Just a story mode like Budokai 1, and they can take my money on Day 1.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by AgitoZ » Fri May 16, 2014 7:39 pm

The customization from Super DBZ. It doesn't even have to be as complex. You'd think it would have been easy for something like the Sparking! games to be able to change the color of beams so you could make Vegeta throw out kamehamehas.
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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by Cold Skin » Sat May 17, 2014 8:10 am

^ The possibility to color beams as you wish?! :shock:
That would be great to make it all manga-colored if you wish! 8)

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri May 30, 2014 7:30 pm

- RB1's game modes
- RB Display Huds
- RB1's Collison Struggles
- RB2's Galaxy Mode Layout (For Mission 100)
- Budokai 2's Babidi Space Ship
- Budokai 3's Leveling System
- Budokai 3's Planet Explosion Effects
- Budokai 3's Beam Clashes
- Infinite World's Free-Roam Sections (For Sim Dragon)
- Shin Budokai's Pursuit Attacks
- Burst Limit's Dragon-Rush
- Burst Limit's Aura Burst
- Burst Limit/Shin Budokai - Super Stun Punch
- UT's Ki system.
- Dragonball Online's Character Creation
- BT2's Storymode-Party System
- BT3's gameplay
- BT3's QTE sky battles. (The random arial shockwaves clashes as an actual mechanic)(Not the slow RB team switch ones)
- BT3's Sim Dragon (For character creation)
- BT2's VA talking Menu Screens (That was what made the games feel welcoming)
- BTTag's sensu Beam mechanic
- BOZ's boss battles

My perfect DBZ game.
Last edited by SingleFringe&Sparks on Sat May 31, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri May 30, 2014 7:39 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
chaospunishment wrote: Transformations should drain Ki like B1/2.
It would actually make a good reason not to transform, because it most games, you wanna say: "why not transforming since it mostly only has advantages and no added flaws".
However, I remember in Budokai that some of the highest transformations ended up being quite punitive, given how fast your ki was drained. Sometimes, when you were at 5 ki gauges, you would transform for a power boost that's not so great, and end up untransforming with 1 ki gauge left less than 30 seconds later...
B2 was hell with that, lol. You could only be SSJ3 for about 3 seconds before you're forced out of it. B3 at least fixed that by giving you baseline ki so you could at least move. Budokai though made transfermations actual transitions that gave you momentary buffs to your stats while slightly weakening others as they did in the show for balance and strategy. Tenkaichi just made transformation purely aesthetic.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by MasterVampire » Fri May 30, 2014 8:46 pm

Planet destruction seem from space like in Budokai 3

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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by goku the krump dancer » Fri May 30, 2014 11:24 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:- RB1's game modes
- RB Display Huds
- RB1's Collison Struggles
- RB2's Galaxy Mode Layout (For Mission 100)
- Budokai 2's Babidi Space Ship
- Budokai 3's Leveling System
- Budokai 3's Planet Explosion Effects
- Budokai 3's Beam Clashes
- Infinite World's Free-Roam Sections (For Sim Dragon)
- Shin Budokai's Pursuit Attacks
- Burst Limit's Dragon-Rush (Merged with Raging Soul)
- UT's Ki system.
- Dragonball Online's Character Creation
- BT2's Storymode-Party System
- BT3's gameplay
- BT3's QTE sky battles. (The random arial shockwaves clashes as an actual mechanic)(Not the slow RB team switch ones)
- BT3's Sim Dragon (For character creation)
- BT2's VA talking Menu Screens (That was what made the games feel welcoming)
- BTTag's sensu Beam mechanic
- BOZ's boss battles

My perfect DBZ game.
Don't forget the gradual battle damage process from Ultimate Shitaichi..
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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by InfernalVegito » Fri May 30, 2014 11:29 pm

MasterVampire wrote:Planet destruction seem from space like in Budokai 3
Absolutely! UT's planet destruction looked atrociously foggy and unsightly. I'm still perplexed how they managed to fuck this up.
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Re: Old things you'd like to carry over to the next games

Post by CashmanX » Sat May 31, 2014 12:12 am

InfernalVegito wrote:
MasterVampire wrote:Planet destruction seem from space like in Budokai 3
Absolutely! UT's planet destruction looked atrociously foggy and unsightly. I'm still perplexed how they managed to fuck this up.
I want actual planetary destruction this time around. As in, the entire planet exploding ala Ultimate Butouden.

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