Raditz 'Lied'? (Jaco-Related Question)

[Gyt Kaliba]

Ah, the glory of ADD, as something that I thought of a month or so ago while Jaco related discussion was still rampant, just finally popped into my head again to actually ask. Okay, there's a lot of debate about whether or not Minus's additions to the universe are good or even worthwhile, and a big point of contention in that debate seems to be how Minus seems to imply that Goku was sent to Earth to save him, rather than to conquer the planet. While unsaid in the bonus chapter itself, the safe assumption about how Raditz found out about his brother was that Bardock or Gine had just enough time to inform him of what happened and lied, or he just heard from someone else later on. Or perhaps Raditz himself never knew anything other than his brother was alive, somehow, and just assumed that was what had he had been sent to do.

...But then, I started thinking again about the whole situation when Raditz first appears. His main objective isn't to inform Goku of his heritage (which as far as he knew, Goku still remembered), it's to get his younger brother to join him and the others. What if Raditz knew all along that the reason his baby brother was sent to Earth wasn't a normal 'baby pod' mission...and lied, saying it was, to try to appeal to his brother (his somewhat-weak and less-brutal brother if we take some of Minus/Jaco's implications fully anyway) and convince him to join them anyway? It would sort of make sense, especially since it almost seems weird if Raditz found out about Goku from anyone but his parents, since they were the only ones who would likely know that Goku had been sent off at all. So if Raditz knew the real reason his brother had been sent, and deemed it a weak argument to get him to join them, would he perhaps lie to try and persuade Goku differently?

[Puto]

No. The only way that Bardock and Gine could contact Radits was via the scouters, which could be monitored by Freeza. If they'd said the truth to Radits, Freeza would've overheard them and would've gone after Kakarrot to kill him, and catch on to the fact that Bardock knew (or at least thought) that he was going to destroy the planet. Therefore, Bardock and Gine must've made it out to be a routine planet-cleaning operation to avoid arousing Freeza's suspicions.

[Herms]

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Sorry, I guess I did get a little too long-winded before. I'm tired. ^_^;

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

Basically, yes. Is it possible that he was lying just to try and get Goku to come with them, since he knew that if he told Goku the truth - that he'd just been sent there to save himself from the fate of their home planet - that he probably wouldn't come? Maybe he thought that if he appealed to Goku's 'Saiyan pride', something he would have no way of knowing yet that Goku didn't have, it'd be more compelling than just 'hey, you were sent here to be safe, so why don't you come kill things with us'?

No. The only way that Bardock and Gine could contact Radits was via the scouters, which could be monitored by Freeza. If they'd said the truth to Radits, Freeza would've overheard them and would've gone after Kakarrot to kill him, and catch on to the fact that Bardock knew (or at least thought) that he was going to destroy the planet. Therefore, Bardock and Gine must've made it out to be a routine planet-cleaning operation to avoid arousing Freeza's suspicions.

Hmm, maybe...I forget though, how long (if we know for sure anyway) is it supposed to be between the events of Minus and the actual destruction of the planet? If there's a decent gap of time, it's entirely possible for Raditz and Vegeta to have come back at some point during that time, and then gone off on another mission before everything went kablooey.

...Though I guess that doesn't really work with Vegeta's reluctance to go back in the first place when called, but you never know.

[Puto]

Freeza wouldn't have sent them off on another mission when he wanted them dead in the first place. Minus all but flat out says that the only reason Vegeta survived was because he was too stubborn to go back when ordered.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

Anyway, my preferred explanation for this whole mess is "it's not in the 42 volumes, so I don't have to try to explain its plot holes if I don't want to (and I don't)".

[Herms]

Basically, yes. Is it possible that he was lying just to try and get Goku to come with them, since he knew that if he told Goku the truth - that he'd just been sent there to save himself from the fate of their home planet - that he probably wouldn't come? Maybe he thought that if he appealed to Goku's 'Saiyan pride', something he would have no way of knowing yet that Goku didn't have, it'd be more compelling than just 'hey, you were sent here to be safe, so why don't you come kill things with us'?

I guess, but if there really was no planet that Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa wanted Goku to help them conquer, then what did Raditz tell Vegeta he was up to when he headed off to Earth? Though admittedly, this mysterious planet of super strong guys never gets mentioned again after Raditz dies.

[TheGmGoken]

Basically, yes. Is it possible that he was lying just to try and get Goku to come with them, since he knew that if he told Goku the truth - that he'd just been sent there to save himself from the fate of their home planet - that he probably wouldn't come? Maybe he thought that if he appealed to Goku's 'Saiyan pride', something he would have no way of knowing yet that Goku didn't have, it'd be more compelling than just 'hey, you were sent here to be safe, so why don't you come kill things with us'?

I guess, but if there really was no planet that Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa wanted Goku to help them conquer, then what did Raditz tell Vegeta he was up to when he headed off to Earth? Though admittedly, this mysterious planet of super strong guys never gets mentioned again after Raditz dies.

Perhaps it was Namek. They might not known about the dragon balls but seemly as they mentioned it to Piccolo its not out of picture.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What Puto said. There was a one month gap between Jaco & Planet Vegeta's destruction, and we know that Vegeta & Raditz never returned, since they pretended like they didn't hear the order. So, it would have been impossible for Raditz to learn the truth.

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

Oozaru Goku would have been at over 4000.

[mAcChaos]

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

Anyway, my preferred explanation for this whole mess is "it's not in the 42 volumes, so I don't have to try to explain its plot holes if I don't want to (and I don't)".

He still had the Saiyan potential to get strong fast, and go Oozaru too.

[RandomGuy96]

What Puto said. There was a one month gap between Jaco & Planet Vegeta's destruction, and we know that Vegeta & Raditz never returned, since they pretended like they didn't hear the order. So, it would have been impossible for Raditz to learn the truth.

I'm a little confused, but are you suggesting Raditz lied when he said he needed Goku to come help him and the other Saiyans conquer that super-strong planet that would be too tough for three Saiyans?

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

Oozaru Goku would have been at over 4000.

1. 4,000 would still mean nothing next to powers that can threaten a 180,000.

2. Raditz still wanted Goku even after seeing he lacked a tail.

[rereboy]

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

It was more of a matter of making things run smoother and faster.

Following your argument, Radditz would also be of no help to the likes of Nappa and Vegeta.

[Kid Buu]

I never understood this plot point. Surely Goku, at well below 1,000, couldn't have done anything to help against creatures that can actually pose a threat to Vegeta? They'd be better off planting a single Saibaman.

It was more of a matter of making things run smoother and faster.

Following your argument, Radditz would also be of no help to the likes of Nappa and Vegeta.

Of course he can, a power level of 15,000 is certainly more helpful than a guy whose weaker than a Saibaman they can just plant.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

1. 4,000 would still mean nothing next to powers that can threaten a 180,000.

Their problem seems to be that the fighters of that planet are strong, and many in numbers, not stronger than Vegeta. If they were stronger than Vegeta, then everyone would have been useless. So, they needed more numbers to take care of them. Vegeta at 180.000 wouldn't be able to take care of everyone alone if they are many in numbers, even if they are weaker than him. But if there are 4 big monkeys there, they had more chances to win.

2. Raditz still wanted Goku even after seeing he lacked a tail.

The Saiyan tail grows back, and Raditz wasn't aware that Goku's tail was removed permanently by the God of Earth.

[Puto]

Of course he can, a power level of 15,000 is certainly more helpful than a guy whose weaker than a Saibaman they can just plant.

Worth noting that when they planted the Saibaimen on Earth, they made it a point to mention that the Earth's soil was fitting for it— the soil of whatever planet they intended to conquer might've not been adequate for planting Saibaimen.

[Luso Saiyan]

The Saiyan tail grows back,

Speaking of which, was there ever an explanation for Vegeta's tail not growing back?

[Low Tone G]

The Saiyan tail grows back,

Speaking of which, was there ever an explanation for Vegeta's tail not growing back?

There wasn't any explanation, but I assume that the reason is that Vegeta was an adult when he was removed of tail.

[Usingnero]

Basically, yes. Is it possible that he was lying just to try and get Goku to come with them, since he knew that if he told Goku the truth - that he'd just been sent there to save himself from the fate of their home planet - that he probably wouldn't come? Maybe he thought that if he appealed to Goku's 'Saiyan pride', something he would have no way of knowing yet that Goku didn't have, it'd be more compelling than just 'hey, you were sent here to be safe, so why don't you come kill things with us'?

I guess, but if there really was no planet that Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa wanted Goku to help them conquer, then what did Raditz tell Vegeta he was up to when he headed off to Earth? Though admittedly, this mysterious planet of super strong guys never gets mentioned again after Raditz dies.

I'm fairly sure Gyt Kaliba is referring to how Raditz approached Goku to have him join them, not that the story of a planet of strong inhabitants was a lie. IE: Strong planet exists, Saiya-jin's need more power via fighters, Raditz decides to enlist his long lost brother, lie's to him about his reasoning for being sent to Earth to play into his Saiya-jin pride, instead of saying "You were sent here to be safe and nothing more!" which could've been viewed as an insult to a Saiya-jin, ect.

Am I on the ball?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Saiyan tail grows back,

Speaking of which, was there ever an explanation for Vegeta's tail not growing back?

There wasn't any explanation, but I assume that the reason is that Vegeta was an adult when he was removed of tail.

Actually, Toriyama said in an interview that because the Saiyans had grown too strong, the tail was just getting in their way, so it stopped growing back. (I'll post the exact quote later.)

The "he is an adult" theory doesn't make sense anyway. Vegeta said that it would grow back, and he was an adult, meaning that age doesn't matter. And there is Gohan as well, who was a kid, yet his tail had stopped growing back.

[Luso Saiyan]

And there is Gohan as well, who was a kid, yet his tail had stopped growing back.

Although Gohan is an half-Saiyan, so the same rules may not apply.