What Does Dragon Ball Have Over The Shonen Of Today?

[sintzu]

when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

What about why goku was so strong and was able to transform into a gaint ape ? That's a big thing to leave with out an awnser

[thomas1up]

By comparison, when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

Not really to be honest, Piccolo was still alive and as far as we knew at this point he was pissed off and wanting to kill Goku at any time just leaving it there we'd have no idea what happened did he stop being evil? did he attack and kill them? Did he get killed himself?, plus we had no idea about Goku's origins, why did he have a tail? Why did he become he transform into a giant gorilla when he sees a full moon?

[rereboy]

2011 it sold 38 million

2012 it sold 23 million (15 million fans gone)

2013 it sold 18 million (another 5 million gone)

Losing 20 million fans in 2 years doesn't mean people are losing interest ?

Add another 10 million this year if the sales keep up the way they are now

You do realize that by know almost everyone in Japan has a copy of One Piece, don't you? Of course the sales had to slow down, people won't buy the series multiple times and there's not infinite japanese people

[sintzu]

2011 it sold 38 million

2012 it sold 23 million (15 million fans gone)

2013 it sold 18 million (another 5 million gone)

Losing 20 million fans in 2 years doesn't mean people are losing interest ?

Add another 10 million this year if the sales keep up the way they are now

You do realize that by know almost everyone in Japan has a copy of One Piece, don't you? Of course the sales had to slow down, people won't buy the series multiple times and there's not infinite japanese people

Arn't thoes numbers for each years volumes ?

[Thouser]

when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

What about why goku was so strong and was able to transform into a gaint ape ? That's a big thing to leave with out an awnser

we had no idea about Goku's origins, why did he have a tail? Why did he become he transform into a giant gorilla when he sees a full moon?

Did we ever find out why Lunch transformed when she sneezed? It very well could have ended without the readers getting an explanation for Goku being ridiculously strong/having a tail/becoming a giant monkey. It would have just been a weird defining trait about him. There hadn't even been anything in the story that had implied we would even get an answer until Raditz showed up with a tail too.

[thomas1up]

when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

What about why goku was so strong and was able to transform into a gaint ape ? That's a big thing to leave with out an awnser

we had no idea about Goku's origins, why did he have a tail? Why did he become he transform into a giant gorilla when he sees a full moon?

Did we ever find out why Lunch transformed when she sneezed? It very well could have ended without the readers getting an explanation for Goku being ridiculously strong/having a tail/becoming a giant monkey. It would have just been a weird defining trait about him. There hadn't even been anything in the story that had implied we would even get an answer until Raditz showed up with a tail too.

The difference is that Lunch wasn't the main character.

And the fact Toriyama forgot about her

[rereboy]

2011 it sold 38 million

2012 it sold 23 million (15 million fans gone)

2013 it sold 18 million (another 5 million gone)

Losing 20 million fans in 2 years doesn't mean people are losing interest ?

Add another 10 million this year if the sales keep up the way they are now

You do realize that by know almost everyone in Japan has a copy of One Piece, don't you? Of course the sales had to slow down, people won't buy the series multiple times and there's not infinite japanese people

Arn't thoes numbers for each years volumes ?

I don't think so. Each new volume sells consistently well in japan, even frequently breaking records. The overall sales for the series are the ones diminishing simply due to the fact that pretty much "everybody" already having the past volumes.

[ABED]

Do we really need to know why he transformed into a giant monkey? I never felt that was a pressing question anymore than why Chaozu looked the way he did, or why Tenshinhan had a third eye. We're dealing in a world of mysticism and where dinosaurs still exist.

As for Piccolo being alive at the end of DB, it's not really a loose end. The story is wrapped up, Goku's the victor, and we know as a viewer Goku will always be there to stop him. I don't see it as a loose end. Everything is tied up thematically. Angel didn't wrap everything up in a nice bow, it ends on a battle cry which feels right for that show.

I also agree with Sintzu, I don't think killing off heroes is a good way to end a series.

[rereboy]

when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

What about why goku was so strong and was able to transform into a gaint ape ? That's a big thing to leave with out an awnser

We never find out why Tenshinhan has three eyes, why Kriliin has no nose, why there are talking animals and animal people, why Lunch changes hair color and personality when she sneezes, why the boss rabbit is able to turn people into carrots, etc, etc. None of that requires an actual explanation. Dragon Ball's world is filled with strange people and strange beings with strange traits.

[sintzu]

when Goku defeated Piccolo at the tournament, pretty much everything that had been going on up to that point had been satisfyingly wrapped up.

What about why goku was so strong and was able to transform into a gaint ape ? That's a big thing to leave with out an awnser

We never find out why Tenshinhan has three eyes, why Kriliin has no nose.

Thoes don't = being super strong and being able to transform into a gaint monky

[ABED]

Why are any of them super strong? It's easy to chalk it up to genetic gift. Not every little detail needs an explanation. It's not even like Toriyama set up Great Ape with the intention of paying off the answer. Goku nor the other characters searched for it, so it doesn't come off as a pressing issue.

[rereboy]

Thoes don't = being super strong and being able to transform into a gaint monky

Being able to transform into a giant monkey is just a character trait like the other ones I mentioned, nothing more. On its own it doesn't really require further explanation in the world of Dragon Ball. It only became more than that when it was developed into something more.

As for Goku being strong, there's plenty of strong people in that world because they are talented and because they train. No further explanation was required for Goku.

[ABED]

Thoes don't = being super strong and being able to transform into a gaint monky

Being able to transform into a giant monkey is just a character trait like the other ones I mentioned, nothing more. On its own it doesn't really require further explanation in the world of Dragon Ball. It only became more than that when it was developed into something more.

As for Goku being strong, there's plenty of strong people in that world because they are talented and because they train. No further explanation was required for Goku.

It's also like real life, why are some people inordinately gifted? Genetics and practice.

I should also add to your reply that Man-Wolf's ability isn't explained. Yes, he's not a main character but Goku's transformation is along the same lines.

[thomas1up]

Thoes don't = being super strong and being able to transform into a gaint monky

Being able to transform into a giant monkey is just a character trait like the other ones I mentioned, nothing more. On its own it doesn't really require further explanation in the world of Dragon Ball. It only became more than that when it was developed into something more.

As for Goku being strong, there's plenty of strong people in that world because they are talented and because they train. No further explanation was required for Goku.

It's also like real life, why are some people inordinately gifted? Genetics and practice.

I should also add to your reply that Man-Wolf's ability isn't explained. Yes, he's not a main character but Goku's transformation is along the same lines.

Eh, you got a good point there, but the main difference is that no one really cares about Man-Wolf to actually want an explanation, if it ended at DB I can imagine there would be people writing tons of theories on Goku's tail and what-not.

As for Tenshinhan's third eye I thought it was explained (not in the anime but somewhere else) that he was part of a third eye clan or something? I can't remember.

And for Kuririn's nose I guess once again it's a case of people don't really care, it's not as giant or as interesting as Goku being able to transform into a giant monkey. Of course that's my opinion, I could be completely wrong

[ABED]

Your points are valid, and I would get why people would want to know why the main character can transform but you can chalk it up to DB being a very odd world. It's not like DB is close to our world with a few exceptions. Goku's uniqueness isn't uncommon. I know that sounds contradictory, but I mean that plenty of characters have some trait that's unique to them.

As to the point about Tenshinhan, it's not explained in the anime or manga, which are what ultimately what count.

[Valerius Dover]

All we know is that he's the descendant of the three eyed people.

[ParkerAL]

Glad to see some interest in Hunter x Hunter from earlier in this thread. It's by far my favorite shonen, and maybe even my favorite anime overall. Any fan of Yu Yu Hakusho should check it out, seeing as it's by the same author.

Will do. The manga artwork i pretty bad, so I'm watching the 1999 anime instead (Gon has the same VA as Naruto there). I heard the 2011 anime has bad pacing though, but I guess I'll have to switch to that once I finish the 1999 anime.

The manga artwork is only bad when Togashi rushes himself. He usually gets around to re-drawing his bad stuff for the volumes.

Ugh, the 1999 series... I'm not a big fan of that adaptation. It fills the story with unneeded melodrama, adds barf-worthy filler leagues worse than anything every seen in Dragon Ball Z and messes with characterizations. Also, I can testify that the 2011 series doesn't have bad pacing. It's a little brisk in the beginning, true, but the show finds a good balance most of the time. The later part of the Chimera Ant arc moves a tad slow, but not because of added filler like in Dragon Ball Z. The chapters in the manga are simply too dense with information to adapt it at a faster pace.

Madhouse also really gives the series the love it deserves when it comes to the animation.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

DBZ is a lot more fun than Naruto and Bleach is to me, its a lot easier to follow as well in terms of concepts and powers. Naruto requires you to sit through excessively over-complicated powers and relationships just to follow the plot.

I'm not going to compare it strictly to shonen anime but to action anime to modern in general.

- DBZ's character development is also very straight forward and honest. It also didnt need to resort to the cliches we're litered with today just to formulate them. There were no, obvious Tsunderes or Moes or whatever... characters that were evil were consistant and just bitter until they were given a reason to side with Goku. There was no phony confessions of love or promise pinky-swears or melodrama. Just either "I like you, I hate you or I respect you." Characters that were bitter were also rightfully frustrated and not emo or angsty about their woes, Vegeta for one often kept everything to himself for monologues until he was confronted by it. Where as Anime characters today had to moan and bitch about trivial nonsense or ridiculous motives. (Sword Art Online/Naruto)
There were no endless flashbacks about irrelevant childhood crying scenes or anything of that sort, everything was set in the present with minor introductions and no more.

- Goku is also a fairly balanced character. He isnt a mopy loser, he isnt so overly dense to irritation, he didnt have any gimmicky catch phrases nor was illogical or whiny. He was simply naive and liked to fight, sleep and eat. Very basic, to the point, very lovable. Hes informal and doesnt care or think much of it. No self-pitting, no "mother come back" garbage, none of that. He is very old school like Inuyasha if not likable for me to the exact same reason. He is what he is. Even in his most mature stages of the Buu saga and GT he was still very likable, and responsible. A lot of protagonists I see these days are very irresponsible and self-piting these days.

[ACCloud]

For me, it comes down to a few things, but in general I consider Dragon Ball far superior to the more modern Shonen works. Please note that I'm talking about the manga, rather than the anime. Also, I love Fullmetal Alchemist - it's my second favourite series after Dragon Ball (for a number of the same reasons, actually)

- Fight choreography is clean and effective. Fights are generally quite varied, and DB generally doesn't have really short, unsatisfying encounters. I think of a series like Bleach in the Arrancar arc where you'd have a whole lot of really short fights where each time you'd see a tiny bit more of the characters' abilities. If two characters were fighting in Dragon Ball, it usually meant something. Someone was going to be clearly defeated, so most fights feel satisfying.

- Instantly likeable and fun characters. Honestly, I can't think of a single Dragon Ball character that I don't enjoy at some point (again, in the manga). I can think of quite a few in series like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc. Villains in Dragon Ball are also surprisingly threatening (think of Piccolo Daimao or Cell) and quickly establish that they are to be feared.

- Dragon Ball has fantastic pacing - it gets to the point and doesn't drag out it's story, while also not skimping on downtime and character interactions/development. That's honestly one of the best things about the series - it's complete and less than 50 volumes. Referencing Bleach again, I really enjoyed the Soul Society arc (which was about 12 volumes), but it's pay-off leads into another 30 or more volumes of story - a lot of which isn't as good in my opinion. Another great thing about Dragon Ball is that every story arc presents something different - to a fair degree, anyway. For example, you get Martial Arts tournaments, around-the-world journeys, space adventures, mythical demons, high school drama, and science fiction to name a few of the elements present.

I could go on (I think Toriyama's artwork is still the best I've seen in a manga, overall), but I think those are some of the major differences =)

[thatdbzguy]

Fights are generally quite varied

Are you talking about all of DB, or just part one? Because part two's fights were hardly varied at all.