Cell's Explosion and Goku's noble sacrifice.

dualist · Post by **dualist** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:59 am

I don't know how it went in the Manga, but considering the fact that Goku had time to talk to King Kai after using IT to take the self destructing Cell to his planet, you would think he had enough time to grab King Kai, Bubbles, and Gregory and IT back to earth.

Am I missing something here?

Post by **Herms** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:43 am

Cell blows up pretty quickly in the manga. And Goku's version of teleportation takes a while to concentrate on the target's ki before actually teleporting to them. We see this in the Boo arc where Goku doesn't have enough time to teleport off Earth before Boo blows it up, and Kaioshin has to zip in and save him with his better form of teleportation.

I mean, it's still a bit silly, but there's some logic to it.

dualist · Post by **dualist** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:07 am

Thanks, Herms.

Appreciate the explanation!

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:09 am

Not to mention that sensing a ki other than Cell's would probably be difficult considering Cell's ki had become turbulent when he was about to explode. That is just an assumption on my part but it could have also been a reason. The explosion does happen rather quickly in the manga though. The anime drags it out for way too long.

RancorSnp · Post by **RancorSnp** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:53 am

Personally I do believe that Goku could escape the explosion if he wanted too, it's just that at the time he believed the Earth will be better of without him. I do not know about the rest of the inhabitant, but he probably assumed that King Kai i going to be alright somehow.

Super Vegetto · Post by **Super Vegetto** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:02 pm

Pretty sure he wasn't planing to return back...

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:15 pm

I doubt Goku would have let King Kai die if he could have done something about it.

thatdbzguy · Post by **thatdbzguy** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:28 am

It's just more terrible writing from a terribly written saga.

Even in the manga, Goku still had enough time to grab King Kai and teleport back to Earth. He didn't because of two possible in-universe reasons, and one guaranteed out-of-universe reason:

Possible In-Universe Reason A: Goku was being an idiot.

Possible In-Universe Reason B: He had already made up his mind about not wating to be on Earth to attract bad guys. (Although this is a giant asspull, since Goku never cared about this before, and we never saw Bulma ever say to him that whole "magnet for bad guys" thing)

Guaranteed Out-of-Universe Reason: Toriyama wanted to get Goku out of the way as quickly as possible so Gohan could take over, without caring how forced his death would have become. He wrote in some pitiful and asspully reason for why Goku didn't want to come back, and called it a day.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:37 am

Even in the manga, Goku still had enough time to grab King Kai and teleport back to Earth. He didn't because of two possible in-universe reasons, and one guaranteed out-of-universe reason:

No...no he didn't.
Cell literally blew up the same page that Goku got into the Planet.

So your "reasons" aren't valid. He said sorry King Kai and the place go BOOM! So no it's not "terrible" writing

thatdbzguy · Post by **thatdbzguy** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:58 am

TheGmGoken wrote:
Even in the manga, Goku still had enough time to grab King Kai and teleport back to Earth. He didn't because of two possible in-universe reasons, and one guaranteed out-of-universe reason:
No...no he didn't.
Cell literally blew up the same page that Goku got into the Planet.

So your "reasons" aren't valid. He said sorry King Kai and the place go BOOM! So no it's not "terrible" writing

He said sorry, and then proceeded to explain how this was the only place he could think of. During the time he spent explaining, he could've instead easily grabbed King Kai and teleported back.

Kid Buu · Post by **Kid Buu** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:59 am

Maybe Goku wanted to die so he could train in the afterlife.

Fuck those Earthlings as training partners.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:09 am

He said sorry, and then proceeded to explain how this was the only place he could think of. During the time he spent explaining, he could've instead easily grabbed King Kai and teleported back.

I'm pretty sure King Kai wanted to hear something before we died. At this point we never seen a Kai died so as far as we know Goku thought King Kai would not be back. Also to grab King Kai he would have to
1. Let Go of Cell
2. Go to King Kai
3. Ignore Cell energy and teleport to Earth focusing on an Earthling energy who at this point are most likely in shock so their ki isn't very high. Which means harder to find energy
4. Teleport

Now If you think Goku had time to do that before Cell blew up. You gotta be kidding. That would take longer than simply saying "Sorry, this the only place I can think of".

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:39 am

RancorSnp wrote:Personally I do believe that Goku could escape the explosion if he wanted too, it's just that at the time he believed the Earth will be better of without him. I do not know about the rest of the inhabitant, but he probably assumed that King Kai i going to be alright somehow.

I'm thinking this too. Considering the speed at which fighters can move in DBZ (faster than the eye can see), he could just have grabbed King Kai and Bubbles and flown away FAST to Snake Way or Outer World sky. I mean maybe Instant Transmission takes a bit of time and concentration, but simple running and flying should be fast enough.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:47 am

Marco Polo wrote:
RancorSnp wrote:Personally I do believe that Goku could escape the explosion if he wanted too, it's just that at the time he believed the Earth will be better of without him. I do not know about the rest of the inhabitant, but he probably assumed that King Kai i going to be alright somehow.
I'm thinking this too. Considering the speed at which fighters can move in DBZ (faster than the eye can see), he could just have grabbed King Kai and Bubbles and flown away FAST to Snake Way or Outer World sky. I mean maybe Instant Transmission takes a bit of time and concentration, but simple running and flying should be fast enough.

Pretty sure Cell explosion would catch them before he fly far enough. I mean if Pure Boo attack was too fast (I'm aware he was stronger) then a self destruct that destroys Earth (King Kai planet smaller than Earth) would reach them if they go to the sky or towards Snake way.

Deep Thought · Post by **Deep Thought** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:09 am

thatdbzguy wrote:It's just more terrible writing from a terribly written saga.

Even in the manga, Goku still had enough time to grab King Kai and teleport back to Earth. He didn't because of two possible in-universe reasons, and one guaranteed out-of-universe reason:

Possible In-Universe Reason A: Goku was being an idiot.

Possible In-Universe Reason B: He had already made up his mind about not wating to be on Earth to attract bad guys. (Although this is a giant asspull, since Goku never cared about this before, and we never saw Bulma ever say to him that whole "magnet for bad guys" thing)

Guaranteed Out-of-Universe Reason: Toriyama wanted to get Goku out of the way as quickly as possible so Gohan could take over, without caring how forced his death would have become. He wrote in some pitiful and asspully reason for why Goku didn't want to come back, and called it a day.

On a side note, the whole "Goku always attracts the bad guys" thing isn't really true. I know that line was mainly added to make Goku's death seem more important and final, but he only directly responsible for the Sayajins, Tenshinhan, and the Androids. He only kind of bumped into Pilaf, Yamcha, Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo, and Freeza; I think it's a narrative stretch to say that those villains "sought Goku out," or that there was something intrinsically attractive about Goku to them, he was just kind of in their way because they (Goku and the villains) had conflicting goals, usually involving the Dragon Balls. Sure, Goku is almost always the one to actually beat the villain, but he's pretty rarely the root cause of their existence/desires, in my opinion.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:36 am

Could anyone feel ki from Earth on King Kai's planet? Maybe once he got there he couldn't feel any of it anymore. I mean, King Kai didn't even know about Cell until Goku told him. In any case, it would require too much time to concentrate probably.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:44 am

mAcChaos wrote:Could anyone feel ki from Earth on King Kai's planet? Maybe once he got there he couldn't feel any of it anymore. I mean, King Kai didn't even know about Cell until Goku told him. In any case, it would require too much time to concentrate probably.

We saw earlier in volume 33 how he teleported between Lord Kaio's planet and the Lookout, when he persuaded Dende to become the new Earth God.
Besides he should be able to tell SS2 Gohan's massive ki.
Though Cell's about to explode ki could conceivably be too big a distraction.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 am

Deep Thought wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:It's just more terrible writing from a terribly written saga.

Even in the manga, Goku still had enough time to grab King Kai and teleport back to Earth. He didn't because of two possible in-universe reasons, and one guaranteed out-of-universe reason:

Possible In-Universe Reason A: Goku was being an idiot.

Possible In-Universe Reason B: He had already made up his mind about not wating to be on Earth to attract bad guys. (Although this is a giant asspull, since Goku never cared about this before, and we never saw Bulma ever say to him that whole "magnet for bad guys" thing)

Guaranteed Out-of-Universe Reason: Toriyama wanted to get Goku out of the way as quickly as possible so Gohan could take over, without caring how forced his death would have become. He wrote in some pitiful and asspully reason for why Goku didn't want to come back, and called it a day.
On a side note, the whole "Goku always attracts the bad guys" thing isn't really true. I know that line was mainly added to make Goku's death seem more important and final, but he only directly responsible for the Sayajins, Tenshinhan, and the Androids. He only kind of bumped into Pilaf, Yamcha, Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo, and Freeza; I think it's a narrative stretch to say that those villains "sought Goku out," or that there was something intrinsically attractive about Goku to them, he was just kind of in their way because they (Goku and the villains) had conflicting goals, usually involving the Dragon Balls. Sure, Goku is almost always the one to actually beat the villain, but he's pretty rarely the root cause of their existence/desires, in my opinion.

He was also "responsible" for Freeza and Cold coming to Earth.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:11 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Could anyone feel ki from Earth on King Kai's planet? Maybe once he got there he couldn't feel any of it anymore. I mean, King Kai didn't even know about Cell until Goku told him. In any case, it would require too much time to concentrate probably.
We saw earlier in volume 33 how he teleported between Lord Kaio's planet and the Lookout, when he persuaded Dende to become the new Earth God.
Besides he should be able to tell SS2 Gohan's massive ki.
Though Cell's about to explode ki could conceivably be too big a distraction.

Gohan ki probably dropped the moment Goku left. Especially from shock. Similar to how Vegeta reverted from sensing Piccolo. Except this time he didn't revert

Baggie_Saiyan · Post by **Baggie_Saiyan** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:52 pm

I always thought he wanted to die & took them with him so he wouldn't get lonely

Kanzenshuu

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