Is Chi-Chi a bad mother (and wife)?

[ABED]

1. Same result, and we don't know how long Goku's gone. We also don't know how Kaio's telepathy works. I highly doubt Kaio allows Goku to talk whenever he wants. By the way, HE WAS DEAD.

2. I don't need more info, I need you to drop it. I haven't seen the series, so a lot of the context is gone. Try picking a less obscure title. Telling me the surface is dangerous is of no help. I have no idea what lead to the decision beyond your interpretation. Pick another title.

3. It does imply that given how much she pushes his studying. I really doubt she would be shoving books down his throat and pushing his education if he made the decision. As was said elsewhere, Chichi's a play on Tiger moms, so I really doubt Gohan's decision was his own doing and Chichi just played a long. Need I remind you that he's FOUR.

[TheGmGoken]

1. So basically in 7 years Goku could not use Kaio to talk to his friends even once? Yet he can randomly check up on Gohan when he goes to the Tenkaichi Budokai? Kaio doesn't have to let Goku talk whenever he wants but in SEVEN years. Yes Goku was dead. But dead people can talk to people who's alive. If the person they staying with let's him. Also all these years and Goku had that "one day visit". He didn't know bout Boo. Why not visit?

2. How I'm supposed to know what you watch .

3. Cover page implies Gohan choice. Seeing as Toriyama writes as he goes along. It was Gohan choice. Chi Chi just made him study a lot as being a scholar is lots of work. We don't know what he was studying. It doesn't matter if he's four.
Satoshi from Pokémon is TEN(still...after...what 6 or 7 generations) and he going from Region to Region in a dangerous adventure all...well with friends by himself.

Masato(Max) from Pokemon is 6 which is close to Gohan age. He knows "everything" about Pokémon and even lectured Satoshi about how he battles.

Goku in the anime was 0 and was sent to destroy a planet. In the manga he was 3.

Hell here's a real life 4 year old.

Most 4-year-olds don't know the name of every state on the map, let alone the capitals.

But most kids that age aren't like Anala Beevers, a New Orleans-based genius who was recently invited to join MENSA, an international organization for people who score at the 98th percentile or higher on a standardized, supervised IQ or other approved intelligence test.

Beevers – who never leaves home without her map of America, which is said to be her favorite thing – knew the English alphabet at 4 months old, and learned numbers in Spanish by the time she was a 1½.

Her dad, Landon, who admits his little one is smarter than both of her parents, said in a recent interview, "She needs a reality show … She keeps us on our toes."

Anala, who aspires to be a nurse when she grows up, is very aware of her gifts. When asked by the reporter if she's smart, she nodded her head "yes." When asked, "How smart are you?" she said, "Really smart."

But a lot comes along with having an astonishingly intelligent child.

"She's a handful," Landon said. "I'll tell you, she's a handful."

So not only in this in anime but this also happens in real life. Being 4 is NO EXCUSE.

[ulisa]

I'll be frank, in Dragonball Z, I have never been fond of ChiChi though I don't hate her, at least not to the extent that I used to. She is probably still my least favorite character though. That being said though, I wouldn't call her a bad mother though I would not call her a great one either. She certainly loves her children, no mistake about that but the extent to which she'll go, especially with the studying is pretty ridiculous. I realize it's supposed to be a play on the "education-mama" idea but I...just didn't find it funny.

I will say off the bat, I have never bought Gohan's "I want to be a scholar" statement simply because it sounds rehearsed. It sounds more like something his mother has said to him over and over again more than an individual desire. Gohan wants to please his parents; it sounds like he takes that route to please her more than any other reason. I do recognize Gohan likes to learn new things and explore but that does not necessarily mean he'll make a career out of learning. I think Gohan likes to be physical, though not necessarily the battles themselves. He doesn't have his father's lust for battling stronger and stronger opponents but I think he does like to protect people and he seemed like he enjoyed the sense of strength the training gave to him. I think he enjoys the training.

I have never been a fan of parents picking a child's career for them. I realize it happens and is accepted and even embraced in some cultures but it just rubs me the wrong way. I would have probably liked ChiChi more if she had encouraged the scholar idea but still allowed Gohan to try other avenues. But it seems like ANYTHING that isn't studying is a cruel, horrible pathway in ChiChi's mind. In some scenes in the anime especially, Gohan even seems afraid of his mother and that bothers me. I believe one should have a healthy respect for one's parents but not fear. Again, that is just my interpretation of what I see but that's how it appeared to me.

Lastly, and this is probably one that just really gets to me--ChiChi never let Goku share his love of martial arts with Gohan. Goku says to Krillin and the others that ChiChi "has a fit" if he tries to train him. I just really saw that as unfair. Gohan is Goku's child as well; by this point, ChiChi has learned, if she didn't already know, how important they were to him, at least on some level. I think the fact that Goku was initially trained by his grandfather is important to him and it would only be natural that he would want to share that with his son.

So, like I said, I would not call ChiChi a bad mother by any means because she obviously has her children's best interests at heart but given she overdoes it emotionally as well, I would not call her a great mother either.

[Dbzk1999]

Lastly, and this is probably one that just really gets to me--ChiChi never let Goku share his love of martial arts with Gohan. Goku says to Krillin and the others that ChiChi "has a fit" if he tries to train him. I just really saw that as unfair. Gohan is Goku's child as well; by this point, ChiChi has learned, if she didn't already know, how important they were to him, at least on some level. I think the fact that Goku was initially trained by his grandfather is important to him and it would only be natural that he would want to share that with his son.
.

Considering she witnessed her husband get tortured and almost killed in a martial arts match can you blame we for nt wanting gohan to get involved in tht stuff

[ABED]

I will say off the bat, I have never bought Gohan's "I want to be a scholar" statement simply because it sounds rehearsed. It sounds more like something his mother has said to him over and over again more than an individual desire. Gohan wants to please his parents

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I wouldn't want her as my mother, but you could do worse.

1. Please look up the word "random". It wasn't random. He got to talk through Kaio because he was getting to come back for a day. Notice that every other time Kaio talks to the living it's an important matter, usually of life and death.

2. You could ask or use very well know examples, or at least ones that aren't obscure.

3. No, the cover page just has a character saying something who is by the way four years old. Most kids aren't prodigies, and we don't know that Gohan is. Given that he went to high school with kids his age, he's likely not a wunderkind, except at fighting.

Satoshi from Pokémon is TEN

Not something I ever bought.

He knows "everything" about Pokémon

So, a lot of kids know a ton about dinosaurs or animals. Not sure what your point is. I don't know how many love spending every single second studying. If they do, they don't need their parents to tell them to. They do it on their own.

Goku in the anime was 0 and was sent to destroy a planet. In the manga he was 3.

He turns into a giant ape, and has superpowers.

Considering she witnessed her husband get tortured and almost killed in a martial arts match can you blame we for nt wanting gohan to get involved in tht stuff

I can understand her concern, but she goes overboard. Why would she have anything against Gohan being able to take care of himself? Plus she never brings that incident up, so it doesn't come across as subtextual. She just comes across as a Tiger Mom because she read that mothers are supposed to get their kids an education. In the scene where Goku introduces Gohan to his friends, he tells them Chichi wanted Gohan to study because it was peacetime, so he needed to study, not martial arts. This leads me to believe that it's her idea. If it was his idea, I don't think she would be so adamant about him studying, to the point of being obnoxious.

[TheGmGoken]

1. Obviously wasn't literally meaning Random. So you telling me, King Kai an ass hole who doesn't let his only student and perhaps only friend in other world to say hello to his family? Here comes the GokuxKing Kai fanfiction.

2. TTGl...is well known. Have you seen or read the original Astro Boy or watch Hero Tales?

3. Gohan going to highschool at his age was probably because Chi Chi wants him to interact with people his age. Wasn't it said that Gohan got high scores on entry exams with ease? Him being 4 doesn't mean anything. He's a smartass kid. He said "I want to be a scholar" and was happy. Chi Chi pushed him to his dreams. Anime only but Goku said "Save the world Gohan and you can study like you wanted"
Satoshi is Ten. Believe or not. In canon he's ten. Stated in BW once again. No matter how much you don't find it realistic. It's fiction. Hell Toriyama said don't think when reading Dragonball. Very true. You thinking like a real 4 year old would act(might be worded wrong). However suspend your imagination. You watch wrestling right? Same concept. Cept you can get hurt in wrestling.

So, a lot of kids know a ton about dinosaurs or animals. Not sure what your point is. I don't know how many love spending every single second studying. If they do, they don't need their parents to tell them to. They do it on their own

Dinosaurs are animals. Masato character is that of a genius. He basically know everything.

turns into a giant ape, and has superpowers.

Gohan is half that. Saiyans perhaps adapt better. Gohan could had read a book. Love learning. Told Chi Chi. Chi Chi told Gohan that's a scholar. Chi Chi brought more books and Gohan Happy.

If it was his idea, I don't think she would be so adamant about him studying, to the point of being obnoxious.

She would and is. She probably always wanted a smart son. Once she find out Gohan loves it. She got the child she wanted and is expressing her love. Goten might love fighting with Trunks. Chi Chi notice. She trained him. Remember most of Chi Chi scenes are GAG and not "serious". So most likely just a hyperbole.

Honestly seems more hate for the character not the wife or motherhood.....

[ABED]

1. That's conjecture.
2. To who? Here are a few shows I've seen: Supernatural, Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dexter, Breaking Bad, the DC Animated Universe, Dragon Ball, Yu Yu Hakusho, Smallville, Friends, Veronica Mars, The Wire, Sherlock, Seinfeld, Scrubs, Psych, Burn Notice, Cheers, 24, Bones, Alias, Arrested Development, The Big Bang Theory.
3. High test scores doesn't make one a genius. You can still get all A's and stay in the same class as your peers. And if she put him in a class just to socialize even though it was too easy for him, how is that good for his schooling?

Gohan isn't a smartass! Where'd you get that idea?

Of course it matters that the character was 10. I don't buy it, which is why I don't like it, among other reasons. Just because an author writes something doesn't mean I have to buy it.

I'm not gonna turn my brain off just to enjoy something. And yes, people do get hurt in wrestling even though it's a work.

She would and is.

Conjecture, and not one that is at all likely.

I'm pretty sure it was flat out said that the reason Goten was allowed to be a fighter is because of what happened to Goku, not because she wanted to support his desire. There's nothing in the manga that indicates that.

Honestly seems more hate for the character not the wife or motherhood

There's no difference here, those parts define her as a character.

I still don't know why you hold the idea that it was Gohan's idea. What mother pushes her kids to such obnoxious levels even though it was the kid's idea? Even if I agreed that Gohan made the decision, that still doesn't justify how pushy she is or why she wouldn't let Goku teach Gohan martial arts.

[TheGmGoken]

1. So it's unproven that King Kai didn't let Goku? You just making Goku seem bad.

2. To who? Anime fans. It won awards more than Z if I recall. You're acting as if its unpopular and unknown.

3. Part of school is social skills. Gohan is a smartass. Not as in the rude way. I mean he's super intelligent. Been studying for scholar since that cover page .

Of course it matters that the character was 10. I don't buy it, which is why I don't like it, among other reasons. Just because an author writes something doesn't mean I have to buy it.

Its a cartoon. You're debating how realistic it is. But its not supposed to be.

I'm not gonna turn my brain off just to enjoy something. And

Akira Toriyama even said please. You're going to reject a please?

, people do get hurt in wrestling even though it's a work.

I...I already said that. .........

Goten was allowed to be a fighter is because of what happened to Goku, not because she wanted to support his desire. There's nothing in the manga that indicates that.

I wasn't being serious on the Goten part.

I still don't know why you hold the idea that it was Gohan's idea

Because Toriyama writing style as he writes as he goes along. Gohan said he wanted he a scholar. So he wants to be one. From the mangs itself. Chi Chi just got over zealous with the idea and saw no point in fighting.

What mother pushes her kids to such obnoxious levels even though it was the kid's idea?

Stereotypical Asian moms. Seeing as DBZ still had gags it made sense. Even my Appa kept sending me science Books and demanding me to tell him detailed information about the book.

that still doesn't justify how pushy she is or why she wouldn't let Goku teach Gohan martial arts.

Same as above. Chi Chi a great mom and wife. Just over protective. Are fan service girls "sluts" or dirty jokes/gags. Same concept

[ABED]

1. Huh? That's a leap, I was saying we Kaio lets people talk to the living if it's an emergency not just willy nilly.
2. Awards don't make things popular and known, and anime fans is a niche fanbase in America. Yes, I like some, but very few as you can see from my list. The show is most definitely obscure.
3. When was Gohan ever a smartass. The operative word there is "part", it's not its primary purpose, and there are otherways to socialize kids besides putting them in a school if they are too far ahead in their studies compared to kids their age. Being forced to be in a school where he's far ahead would do more harm than good for his learning.
4. I can buy monsters that fight, I can't buy 10 year olds traveling the world on their own.
5. When did he say that? Even if he did, I don't have to acquiesce.
6. Toriyama's writing style is such that he goes for exaggeration, and Chichi's Tiger Mom-ness falls in line with that. You saw that cover and took it completely at face value regardless of context.
7. Nope, stereotypical Asian mothers push their kids to study. The science book thing isn't the same thing at all. She isn't literally making you study day in and day out regardless of your interests.
8. Overprotective isn't a good thing, and she's not merely overprotective, it's not her job to push him that hard.

[TheGmGoken]

1. Goku can lie. He done it before. He also made a noble save
. Being his only friend and student I'm sure Goku got some perks. Hell what about Roshi sister?

2. You making sound like its unknown worldwide.

3. Since the focus was on fighting or training we don't get to see Gohan other than dangerous shit. Though we probably see it in the anime. You also have to remember Gohan fell behind 3 years and a year in ROSAT. So he probably lost some IQ points.

4. You can't buy fiction being fiction. Though it was officially stated he's 10? Satoshi is 10 no matter how much you "buy" it

5. He did in a interview. Lemme go find it.

6. Exactly. Are we going base her motherhood on gags? Hell why we're keeping Goten from this? What "bad" thing she do to him.

7. My Appa is my father which is a male. My mom is Umma. You're going to tell an Asian how stereotypical Asians are? . My Appa with the science books did force me to read and write about them. He said it'll help you in the future.

8. I like when parents are overprotective. It shows love and careness. Once again Chi Chi basically a gag character. Toriyama didn't even like drawing her. So he made her marry Goku and she went Gag.

[MediaFanGirl93]

While Chi-Chi did play a huge role in Gohan being a scholar, I don't think Gohan became a scholar because of his mother. I mean, when Gohan was an adult, Chi-Chi pretty much gave up being a Tiger Mom and Gohan was basically given free will to do whatever he wanted. I mean, Gohan could have been a fighter/scholar, and I doubt that Chi-Chi would have a fit.

Then again, no mother is perfect. Let's not forget that Chi-Chi grew up without a mother and without an education, so it's not surprising that she is a flawed mother.

[DBZAOTA482]

This thread isn't quite as fired up as I thought it would be.

Mine puts Chi-Chi to shame if that says anything.

....don't tell her I said that...please...

Don't worry, your secret's safe with me. *crosses fingers*

We don't know what exactly Gohan is studying for. It could be farming for all we know. Gohan could just love learning so he wanted to be a scholar in which Chi Chi gave him lots of books to study.

I reckon that he's partial to science, especially geology.

As was said elsewhere, Chichi's a play on Tiger moms, so I really doubt Gohan's decision was his own doing and Chichi just played a long. Need I remind you that he's FOUR.

Tiger Moms aren't strictly defined as Japanese mothers who obsess over they children's education (that's the kyoiku mom stereotype, which they even jokingly refer to her as). It's much deeper than that. And who cares if he's four. Like you said, Dragon Ball isn't built around real-life psychology.

Oh and Bulma (the supposed better wife for Goku to some) didn't help Goku when he had the virus.

[TheGmGoken]

Anyone curious. Here's a Kyoiku mom

The kyōiku mama is a stereotyped figure in modern Japanese society portrayed as a mother who relentlessly drives her child to study, to the detriment of the child's social and physical development, and emotional well-being.[1]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoiku_mama

[Looneygamemaster]

The problem with Chi-Chi as I see it is that Dragon Ball wants her to be almost always be a cartoon mom who's "funny" in her overreactions, even when the title's trying to be serious. The transition...isn't very graceful, to say the least.

Mind you, Toriyama might have just had early struggles writing her in her role, because there were moments in the Buu arc that I both felt for her and found her funny.

[MediaFanGirl93]

The problem with Chi-Chi as I see it is that Dragon Ball wants her to be almost always be a cartoon mom who's "funny" in her overreactions, even when the title's trying to be serious. The transition...isn't very graceful, to say the least.

Mind you, Toriyama might have just had early struggles writing her in her role, because there were moments in the Buu arc that I both felt for her and found her funny.

To be fair, Chi-Chi being a school mom is a part of her character. Then again, you do make a valid point. Anyway, I always think that Chi-Chi gets mocked too much for her coddling and overprotective ways, when most of her reactions are very normal.

[ABED]

Tiger Moms aren't strictly defined as Japanese mothers who obsess over they children's education (that's the kyoiku mom stereotype, which they even jokingly refer to her as). It's much deeper than that. And who cares if he's four. Like you said, Dragon Ball isn't built around real-life psychology.

I never said they were, and I don't see what you're trying to point out.

Oh and Bulma (the supposed better wife for Goku to some) didn't help Goku when he had the virus.

She had a child she was taking care of.

4. You can't buy fiction being fiction. Though it was officially stated he's 10? Satoshi is 10 no matter how much you "buy" it

Just because someone writes a fictional world where 10 year olds are treated as capable of taking care of themselves doesn't mean I have to buy it. The fact that it's fiction makes little difference because it's not psychologically grounded. I'll buy aliens, magic, and space battles, but 10 year olds being essentially adults is ridiculous.

Do you think that when I say I don't buy it, it means that I don't think he's 10. I get that he's 10, what I'm saying is that I don't buy that a 10 year old is capable of taking care of themselves at that age.

[Kamiccolo9]

Oh and Bulma (the supposed better wife for Goku to some) didn't help Goku when he had the virus.

She had a child she was taking care of.

Moreso, Bulma's not a biologist. What was she supposed to do? I doubt even the world's best rocket scientist could perform heart surgery, and that's basically what Bulma is.

[ABED]

1. Goku can lie. He done it before. He also made a noble save
. Being his only friend and student I'm sure Goku got some perks. Hell what about Roshi sister?

2. You making sound like its unknown worldwide.

7. My Appa is my father which is a male. My mom is Umma. You're going to tell an Asian how stereotypical Asians are? . My Appa with the science books did force me to read and write about them. He said it'll help you in the future.

8. I like when parents are overprotective. It shows love and careness. Once again Chi Chi basically a gag character. Toriyama didn't even like drawing her. So he made her marry Goku and she went Gag.

1. When did he lie? Goku isn't Kaio's only student. Yes, and he used his noble save to tell his friends not to wish him back.
2. Not what I wrote. I said it's obscure, which it is. It's not known to a mass audience, hence obscure.
7. I don't know your language, sorry. I'm not telling you how Asian mothers are, I'm saying what the stereotype is. He can tell you all you want, but that doesn't make it necessarily true or desirable. Part of Tiger Moms what they are is that they think they do it for the sake of success of the child, but they have a very narrow view of what success is, rather than the happiness of the child. I also don't like it when people throw around the word "force." Force means physical coercion or fraud, something like that.
8. Overprotecting isn't good that's why it's called OVERprotecting. It shows insecurity, and it doesn't help the kid.

[TheGmGoken]

1. Raditz you're not my brother . Ok serious time. He lied to King Kai about not fighting Freeza. Besides King Ema and Goku who else is Kaio's student. King Emma is a former student and Goku is current. Who else was trained by Kaio as a Master-Student type of way. I didn't count the other Z fighters as students as it wasn't a "Master" Student relationship. Even still Goku is Kaio's only student that's with him 9/10 times of the day.
2. I said the way you write. Not what you wrote. I most likely mis understood because of language issues
3(Did I really type 7 ). My language? I wasn't speaking Korean. I said stereotype Asians because my race is Korean. Stereotype Asian parents are shown a lot in multiple Asian shows. Especially Korean Dramas. Even more than any other foreign shows in which why I'm saying you should't tell an Asian about it's own stereotype. You don't know the stereotype as much as you think. Especially since I had to be told(As the Koreans had a pure blood thing going on) all my life due to bullying. You tried to correct me however(No offense) you're very ignorant on the subject.
4(8?). Overprotect is good. Rather be over than under. Not all overprotected parents or people are insecure. They just love their family a lot. Example. I'm overprotective towards my sisters.

[ABED]

1. Raditz you're not my brother . Ok serious time. He lied to King Kai about not fighting Freeza. Besides King Ema and Goku who else is Kaio's student. King Emma is a former student and Goku is current. Who else was trained by Kaio as a Master-Student type of way. I didn't count the other Z fighters as students as it wasn't a "Master" Student relationship. Even still Goku is Kaio's only student that's with him 9/10 times of the day.
2. I said the way you write. Not what you wrote. I most likely mis understood because of language issues
3(Did I really type 7 ). My language? I wasn't speaking Korean. I said stereotype Asians because my race is Korean. Stereotype Asian parents are shown a lot in multiple Asian shows. Especially Korean Dramas. Even more than any other foreign shows in which why I'm saying you should't tell an Asian about it's own stereotype. You don't know the stereotype as much as you think. Especially since I had to be told(As the Koreans had a pure blood thing going on) all my life due to bullying. You tried to correct me however(No offense) you're very ignorant on the subject.
4(8?). Overprotect is good. Rather be over than under. Not all overprotected parents or people are insecure. They just love their family a lot. Example. I'm overprotective towards my sisters.

At that point in the series he's on Dai Kaio's planet, so he's around others, and just because Goku's his only student doesn't mean he's obligated to indulge Goku. This is all conjecture. We don't know what he can and can't allow, but we have seen that Kaio doesn't contact people willy nilly.
He didn't lie to Kaio, he had no other choice but to fight Freeza at that time. It was either that, or his child and friends die. I don't know the stereotype as well as you perhaps, but I know it enough, it's a well known trope that's not particular to Asians. This isn't about actual Asians, it's about a damn stereotype. I don't take offense, but it's ridiculous that you think I don't understand the stereotype. You seem to be equating the two.
Overprotection isn't good. Over rather than under is a false alternative. It isn't one or the other. Some overprotective parents do it out of ignorance but the results are often similar. Overprotecting them isn't done just because you love someone. Over means you are doing it past the point that you should. It's not good. You may think it shows love, but the person on the receiving end, it's not a good thing, so it doesn't matter what your reasons are.

You immediately seem to dismiss the fact that Goku tells his friends that Chichi wanted Gohan to only study and not be physical, which to me is a pretty clear indication that it was Chichi's doing.