Is Chi-Chi a bad mother (and wife)?

[DBZAOTA482]

I never said they were, and I don't see what you're trying to point out.
She had a child she was taking care of.

1. You've outright said that they were, and I'm just clearing some air.

2. Exactly. She could have left Trunks to her parents' care or took him along. Plus we're not given or even hinted an official reasons for why she wasn't there unless you go that piece of anime filler.

Moreso, Bulma's not a biologist. What was she supposed to do?

Help him emotionally and spiritually or just see if he's hanging on.

[Kamiccolo9]

I never said they were, and I don't see what you're trying to point out.
She had a child she was taking care of.

1. You've outright said that they were, and I'm just clearing some air.

2. Exactly. She could have left Trunks to her parents' care or took him along. Plus we're not given or even hinted an official reasons for why she wasn't there unless you go that piece of anime filler.

Moreso, Bulma's not a biologist. What was she supposed to do?

Help him emotionally and spiritually or just see if he's hanging on.

He was unconscious. He didn't need multiple women and Yamcha wiping his forehead.
And for all we know, she did check up on him. Chi-chi and Bulma both have phones.

[ABED]

I didn't give a precise definition but a defining characteristic of a Tiger Mom is they place HUGE pressure on their kids to study. I read the WSJ article.

I don't even know what your point is regarding that. Goku was being taken care of by the time she found out, so why is it illogical for her to want to be with her child more? I'm not sure what you're implying.

[TheGmGoken]

1. Raditz you're not my brother . Ok serious time. He lied to King Kai about not fighting Freeza. Besides King Ema and Goku who else is Kaio's student. King Emma is a former student and Goku is current. Who else was trained by Kaio as a Master-Student type of way. I didn't count the other Z fighters as students as it wasn't a "Master" Student relationship. Even still Goku is Kaio's only student that's with him 9/10 times of the day.
2. I said the way you write. Not what you wrote. I most likely mis understood because of language issues
3(Did I really type 7 ). My language? I wasn't speaking Korean. I said stereotype Asians because my race is Korean. Stereotype Asian parents are shown a lot in multiple Asian shows. Especially Korean Dramas. Even more than any other foreign shows in which why I'm saying you should't tell an Asian about it's own stereotype. You don't know the stereotype as much as you think. Especially since I had to be told(As the Koreans had a pure blood thing going on) all my life due to bullying. You tried to correct me however(No offense) you're very ignorant on the subject.
4(8?). Overprotect is good. Rather be over than under. Not all overprotected parents or people are insecure. They just love their family a lot. Example. I'm overprotective towards my sisters.

At that point in the series he's on Dai Kaio's planet, so he's around others, and just because Goku's his only student doesn't mean he's obligated to indulge Goku. This is all conjecture. We don't know what he can and can't allow, but we have seen that Kaio doesn't contact people willy nilly.
He didn't lie to Kaio, he had no other choice but to fight Freeza at that time. It was either that, or his child and friends die. I don't know the stereotype as well as you perhaps, but I know it enough, it's a well known trope that's not particular to Asians. This isn't about actual Asians, it's about a damn stereotype. I don't take offense, but it's ridiculous that you think I don't understand the stereotype. You seem to be equating the two.
Overprotection isn't good. Over rather than under is a false alternative. It isn't one or the other. Some overprotective parents do it out of ignorance but the results are often similar. Overprotecting them isn't done just because you love someone. Over means you are doing it past the point that you should. It's not good. You may think it shows love, but the person on the receiving end, it's not a good thing, so it doesn't matter what your reasons are.

You immediately seem to dismiss the fact that Goku tells his friends that Chichi wanted Gohan to only study and not be physical, which to me is a pretty clear indication that it was Chichi's doing.

Ok I'm writing my story as I reply so I'm sorry if this isn't detailed.

1. The series imply that he was almost always with Goku as Goku trains with him.
2. A lie is a lie. Besides he was going to fight Freeza anyways.
3. I obvious stated stereotype. You don't need to tell me that's not how Asians act. You're clearly ignorant on the subject on "Stereotype Asian". You don't have an idea on what you're talking about. So let's just drop it at that. Or just PM me what you think the stereotype is.
4. Nah Overprotective over under isn't false. Hell I want to be overprotective. It gives the child more growth. When they realize you're overprotecting them they tend to try to make you stop doing it and thus grow up more and become independent. It's very well a good thing .
5. I didn't dismiss it. I said had Toriyama not told the fans "Scholar" on the cover page of his debut we would't know what Chi Chi has him studying. Hell maybe Goku hit Gohan(In training) and Gohan cried. Chi Chi told Goku not to be physical. Gohan likes to study.

[ABED]

Okay, so we've established that he's around Goku a lot, so...
That doesn't make a lie. A lie is an intentionally false statement. The context changed.

4. Nah Overprotective over under isn't false. Hell I want to be overprotective. It gives the child more growth. When they realize you're overprotecting them they tend to try to make you stop doing it and thus grow up more and become independent. It's very well a good thing .

That's some terrific logic there. The more likely result is the child becomes coddled and doesn't learn to stand on his or her own two feet. In other words, they become Buster Bluth

5. I didn't dismiss it. I said had Toriyama not told the fans "Scholar" on the cover page of his debut we would't know what Chi Chi has him studying. Hell maybe Goku hit Gohan(In training) and Gohan cried. Chi Chi told Goku not to be physical.

That's conjecture. We do know for a fact that it was Chichi's idea, and it likely was, she has a more dominant personality and "convinced" Goku to let her raise him that way. Goku never said he tried to train him and as a result she made Gohan study.

You're clearly ignorant on the subject on "Stereotype Asian". You don't have an idea on what you're talking about. So let's just drop it at that. Or just PM me what you think the stereotype is.

Tell me exactly how I'm ignorant about the sterotypes. I'm not going to drop it, it's a ridiculous statement. It's a well known stereotype that Asian mothers put incredible pressure on their children to succeed in academics, arts, etc. How that constitutes me being ignorant about this subject is baffling.

[TheGmGoken]

That's some terrific logic there. The more likely result is the child becomes coddled and doesn't learn to stand on his or her own two feet. In other words, they become Buster Bluth

Normally when this happens. The child starts to see more of the world and branch away and start making their own choices. Which in turn makes them because independent. Yes some of them becomes "Buster Bluth" but that can happen with regular protection.

Okay, so we've established that he's around Goku a lot, so...

A-lot? Even when Goku's alive he's almost ALWAYS with him(Guessing this stop once Pan was born) as hinted in BoG.

That's conjecture. We do know for a fact that it was Chichi's idea, and it likely was, she has a more dominant personality and "convinced" Goku to let her raise him that way. Goku never said he tried to train him and as a result she made Gohan study.

You know for a fact it was Chi Chi idea but you then say "It likely was"? . Goku did say he tried to train Gohan. We don't know how ChiChi found out. THat's up to fan speculation. I'm certain it's Gohan's dream and idea to become a scholar.

[DBZAOTA482]

I didn't give a precise definition but a defining characteristic of a Tiger Mom is they place HUGE pressure on their kids to study. I read the WSJ article.

I don't even know what your point is regarding that. Goku was being taken care of by the time she found out, so why is it illogical for her to want to be with her child more? I'm not sure what you're implying.

1. There's already a stereotype of asian mothers associated with ones who obsess over their children's education in particular (kyoiku mother), which floats at a similar boat. Tiger moms are perfectionist parents in general.

2. It wouldn't be illogical in the slightest if Bulma saw Trunks in need of care and attention at the moment but since it clearly wasn't the case it shows she's not quite waifu material for Goku, given that it was said that the heart virus strong enough to kill even a Super Saiyan (Goku is at base when it started weighing him down) so you'd think Bulma would instinctively decide to be there for her (strange as it sounds) best friend case if he's made it or not. Also, It's relevant because this very thread is about Chi-Chi's abilities as a wife/mother and you had to bring up Yamcha being there for Goku when he was bed-ridden from the heart virus as to explain your stance.

[ABED]

A-lot? Even when Goku's alive he's almost ALWAYS with him(Guessing this stop once Pan was born) as hinted in BoG.

Not really. He's with him the couple months that he trains for the Saiyans, and for 7 years. He also has some contact with him during emergencies, but he's hardly always with him.

2. It wouldn't be illogical in the slightest if Bulma saw Trunks in need of care and attention at the moment but since it clearly wasn't the case it shows she's not quite waifu material for Goku, given that it was said that the heart virus strong enough to kill even a Super Saiyan (Goku is at base when it started weighing him down) so you'd think Bulma would instinctively decide to be there for her (strange as it sounds) best friend case if he's made it or not. Also, It's relevant because this very thread is about Chi-Chi's abilities as a wife/mother and you had to bring up Yamcha being there for Goku when he was bed-ridden from the heart virus as to explain your stance.

I'm not sure why you brought this point up, this was a while back that this was discussed.

Normally when this happens. The child starts to see more of the world and branch away and start making their own choices. Which in turn makes them because independent. Yes some of them becomes "Buster Bluth" but that can happen with regular protection.

This is pure rationalization.

You know for a fact it was Chi Chi idea but you then say "It likely was"? . Goku did say he tried to train Gohan. We don't know how ChiChi found out. THat's up to fan speculation. I'm certain it's Gohan's dream and idea to become a scholar.

You are abusing emoticons, and I type fast, so it didn't come out as I meant it to. There's no way I buy a kid his age dreams to become a scholar. Does anyone even know what that is in terms of a profession? You took his words at face value despite Chichi's obnoxious insistence that he study, and having the more dominant personality between her and Goku.

How are you CERTAIN that it was his dream? I mean besides one panel which you keep harping about like I didn't read it.

[MediaFanGirl93]

I think we should be judging Chi-Chi's parenting by the manga instead of the anime. In the manga, I think she is a parody of the Education Mother, not the Tiger Mom who never allows her kids to do anything. While Chi-Chi was still overprotective of Gohan the manga, I don't think she was as forceful and controlling as she was in the anime. I'm reading the VIZBIG manga (I'm on book 6) and I think Chi-Chi is pretty chill there to be honest.

She's not a bad mother. No mother is perfect.

[ABED]

To be fair, she's not in the manga that much (likely because she's not interesting), but I do think it's an appropriate interpretation in the anime.

We get a good idea of her as a wife and I still stand by my statements that she's more in love with the idea of marriage and takes her cues from what she's read than actually in love with Goku.

[TheGmGoken]

Not really. He's with him the couple months that he trains for the Saiyans, and for 7 years. He also has some contact with him during emergencies, but he's hardly always with him.

Battle of Gods imply Goku trains there every since the Boo Arc. Seeing as Goku trains everyday(Supported by Toriyama).....it's safe to say Goku see and speaks to King Kai every day.

This is pure rationalization.

So are most of everything we've said.

There's no way I buy a kid his age dreams to become a scholar.

You don't have to buy it. IT still happen regardless. You don't have to buy anything. It's still true.

You took his words at face value despite Chichi's obnoxious insistence that he study, and having the more dominant personality between her and Goku.

This only happens once on screen in the manga and another time(during Gohan debut where Goku explains) off screen. SO about twice. When we acutally saw it, it was a gag scene. THere was also a hospital scene but that was completely reasonable.

To be fair, she's not in the manga that much (likely because she's not interesting), but I do think it's an appropriate interpretation in the anime.

She isn't in the manga a lot because Toriyama don't like drawing her. So he made her marry Goku so he can force himself to draw her more. The anime tends to do WRONG things with the characters. So I take anime Chi Chi and ignore it.

I still stand by my statements that she's more in love with the idea of marriage and takes her cues from what she's read than actually in love with Goku.

Maybe at first. But ChiChi most likely started loving him.

[Super Sonic]

I wouldn't say she was one. But with the type of mother and wife she was, kinda wonder if Funimation ever thought of having her talk like these ladies, with a bit of Yiddish flavor, bubelah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CbOAZ4nDA

[nhienphan2808]

No. She's a great mother and wife. She basically fed and raised 2 Saiyans (and if you count that overgrown child Goku, 3 Saiyans) and managed their Saiyan strength alone for years. She's angry and strong-willed, but imagine having a husband and children that always lead themselves into life-and-death battles. She has a lot of fits but what happens next? She still let them do what they wanted. If anything she was damn laid back and full of faith and understanding with the boys' good heart, will and power. She cares, but being so simple-minded, she's just not very good at showing it at times.

ABED says she married Goku not because she was really in love with Goku but rather the idea of being a wife, but i think she more than made up for her naivete and fangirling behaviors by sticking with a guy like Goku and putting up with his shit that long and royally. If she just cares for Goku in a level that a wife is supposed to care for her husband, she would not have been so happy and giddy and bawling like a schoolgirl when knowing that Goku was coming back home. Besides, we're not talking about Chichi the ideal lover/girlfriend, we're talking about Chichi the wife, the family woman. With Goku having zero sense about family ( as the creator stated ), Chichi had to have ALL of and try her fucking best to almost singlehandedly keep it and her little family in one piece throughout the series.

[ABED]

That's just what you want in a marriage, someone who learns to love you after the nuptials.

Being a lover is a big part of being a wife. There has to be a romantic attraction.

Chichi didn't bawl like a schoolgirl. She shed a tear or two, and so did many of Goku's friends.

[nhienphan2808]

That's just what you want in a marriage, someone who learns to love you after the nuptials.

Being a lover is a big part of being a wife. There has to be a romantic attraction.

Chichi didn't bawl like a schoolgirl. She shed a tear or two, and so did many of Goku's friends.

Nah, i was just talking about some of her emotional reactions, wasn't being specific about any scene. Could be the scene when he appeared, or when Gohan informed her, or when Goku had to leave, or when he came back for good again. And oh that pre-marriage scene where she cried while practically lifted and carried Goku when he survived the fight with Piccolo.

Also, you seem to have VERY high expectations and demands for her as Goku's wife as in not only her love for him but as in HOW she show her love. For me, the love is there enough. She let him be himself and do what he wanted, worried and insecure as shit but tried to have faith in him and fucking did, waited for him all her life, birthed and raised 2 good and powerful children for him, and Goku loved her enough to understand. She didn't have to shed more tears than his friends or romantically look for wounded Goku first and foremost to let me know that she loved him and the children.

[ABED]

No, I don't. I just expect that her ideas of love and marriage come from a magazine, and that she care for her husband after his body is broken and he helped save the world.

I'm not asking her to shed more tears, merely pointing out that that's not evidence that she loved him romantically.

[MediaFanGirl93]

Also, you seem to have VERY high expectations and demands for her as Goku's wife as in not only her love for him but as in HOW she show her love. For me, the love is there enough. She let him be himself and do what he wanted, worried and insecure as shit but tried to have faith in him and fucking did, waited for him all her life, birthed and raised 2 good and powerful children for him, and Goku loved her enough to understand. She didn't have to shed more tears than his friends or romantically look for wounded Goku first and foremost to let me know that she loved him and the children.

To be fair, I don't think ABED has high expectations and I do think he's one of the good critics of characters of this show. I do think other fans have unrealistic expectations of Chi-Chi, considering how they treat some of her had moments as felonies/unforgivable sins, but ignore (or saint) other characters who do far worse than Chi-Chi (I won't mention names).

[ABED]

I'll admit that I've seen the anime more than I've read the manga, so that's formed a lot of my opinion of the character. The anime does exaggerate her behavior but there are moments in the manga such as her disregard for Goku after the fight against Vegeta that rub me the wrong way. I like her far more in the Buu arc and wish that was how she was written the entire time.

[MediaFanGirl93]

Fair enough. The complaints about the whole aftermath of the Vegeta fight won't bother me as much if fans didn't ignore Chi-Chi's good moments.

[KaioKenKid4]

In my opinion, Chi-chi is a bad mother and an even worst wife.

As a mother, most people would disagree, which is understandable. She does try her best to keep Gohan educated and safe ( though it doesn't always work..). It's what a normal mother would do. She wants only the best for her Gohan. However, I give my refute from 2 stand-points: a realistic mother and a Dragonball Z mother. She realistically is a bad mother because she shelters and over protects Gohan. Gohan says to Pigero and the orphans himself during his 6 month self-training that he wishes his mom let him go outside the house more instead of doing his studies all day; and when he can get outside, he can't leave the yard. Also, she takes no interest in what Gohan wants to do in the future. She forces him into school because she doesn't want him to end up like (in her words) "those delinquent fighters". This brings me to the Dragonball Z mother side. She simply ignores the fact that Gohan is a natural born fighter. Heck, he is half saiyin! It is literally in his blood to fight; and whether Chi-Chi fails to see it or just refuses to believe it, either way she'd rather the world be destroyed than for Gohan to do what he does best. Bottom line, Chi-Chi needs to let Gohan be. She can still have him do school and all but she needs to understand that the world's safety is always primary.

As a wife, many would agree that Chi-Chi is horrible! Why? Simply because she is selfish! She puts her wants and needs before Goku's and Gohan's. For example, she gets mad whenever Goku needs Gohan to fight beside him. Though she also doesn't want him to get hurt ,she doesn't want Gohan to fight either, but what choice does Goku have?? Gohan was born already stronger than Yamcha, Krillin, Tien Shinhan, and Piccolo; and once he figured out how to use his power (thanks to the Big Green Uncle himself) he was close to matching Vegeta's power! If Goku or Vegeta were to somehow fail to win a battle against the enemy, he's the next line of defense that could actually stand a chance. Also, whenever Gohan gets hurt, she completely blames Goku for it! Not only does she ignore his injury but she tends only to Gohan! Ever since the big saiyin battle with Nappa and Vegeta, she doesn't give a crap about Goku's well- being; only Gohan's! She even attempts to switch mates with Bulma when Vegeta was seeing her! Does any of that sound like a good, faithful wife to you?? Well, whether its a mom or a wife, Chi-Chi is overall just too selfish which is why she just doesn't make the cut for me.