Why weren't the pre-DB Saiyans Stronger?

[Hitiro]

Raditz is being used as a bare minimum (plus he's the only Low-class example we got), but given the fact that most of the Saiyan race is Low-Class, and Nappa, being the "Elite Warrior Class" Saiyan, is shown to be at 4,000, that doesn't leave much room for the rest of the Saiyans. And just because only "a handful" of non-Saiyan characters are stronger than the Saiyans, doesn't mean the Saiyan Race is also strong because only a couple people outclass them. Yes, the Saiyans are strong in comparison to the rest of Freeza's army, but that's not the point here. With the examples of Raditz and Nappa, we can estimate that most of the Saiyan race was only at 2,000-2,500. That's strong compared to other species of people, but again, not the point. As we see in the early part of the series that those levels are absolute trash compared to what the Saiyans, and even the non-saiyans, were getting to, because of either specialized training which can pretty much equate to Gravity Training, Zenkais (both of which the Saiyans could've had), or both. So all that bares the question as to "why"? Why weren't the Saiyans stronger than what they were, even though we see they had the potential too, via genetics or technology? That's the main question of this Topic (probably should change the name of the thread ).

I commented on this before. But I'll say it again. The Saiyans couldn't Gravity train because they didn't have the technology. That was Dr. Briefs design, not Saiyan design. Zenkai's would not happen often, if at all because Saiyans > Nearly every other race. They would never come across a fight that would force them to have a Zenkai. And they were always sent on missions to conquer planets so they wouldn't have time to train. Despite these factors though Freeza did notice that the Saiyans were growing in strength. Even if it was only minimal. That is why he destroyed Planet Vegeta. He was worried a Saiyan would grow strong enough to overthrow him. It's debatable that the 10 mid class Sayians(Elite class if you want to call them that.) were the start of the race growing stronger. Hence why the mid class was so few in numbers. It had only just started to come about. If Freeza had left the Saiyan's it could be quite possible that The mid class would be the new low class and Vegeta's Elite class(or Super Elite class) would be the new mid class.

[rereboy]

I'm not talking about being weak compared to other species, but in GENERAL. Regardless if they're stronger than other species in the universe, the Low-class power levels are still below the 2,000 range, and from what we saw with different training methods in the Gravity Chamber and also Zenkais, they have the potential to be so much more.

So? Even humans have the potential to be much more than the average member of their species. Look as Krillin.

As for why some saiyans managed to become much more (like Goku and Vegeta), just look at all the extraordinary circumstances that they went through and that no other member of their species had gone through. Even disregarding all the healing methods, both Goku and Vegeta died before becoming SSJs and without the dragon balls that would be it. But besides that, both Vegeta and Goku got injured pretty badly many times and were saved and healed thanks to the circumstances. Most of the time, that's not what happens, the saiyan just ends up dying.

[Luke Groundwalker]

Maybe they weren't? To be specific, we don't really know anything about Saiyan history whatsoever.

There are two known legends relating to Saiyans: The Super Saiyan, and the Super Saiyan God. Both refer to a form of greater power ascension, with the later specifically touting as being the form of a savior who beat all of the bad Saiyans in the past.

Aside from that, we know very little about Saiyan culture, though if someone was able to achieve Super Saiyan God in the past like the legend states, then it would seem to me that pre-DB Saiyans were a lot stronger than people give them credit for.

As for the slump Saiyans went into during the Freeza era, it's hard to say cause there's still an insufficient amount of information on it. If I had to guess, Freeza either took over the planet or allied himself with the Saiyans hence why Saiyans wore his armor and followed his orders. Perhaps Freeza himself neutered the greatness of the Saiyans, but still felt they were a threat so killed them off?

[Luso Saiyan]

As we see in the early part of the series that those levels are absolute trash compared to what the Saiyans, and even the non-saiyans, were getting to,

Power levels ceased to be mentioned as the series went on, so we don't have anything to compare them to (except for an handful of Freeza's elite soldiers).

because of either specialized training which can pretty much equate to Gravity Training,

"Pretty much equals"? Please, explain.

Zenkais (both of which the Saiyans could've had)

Could have, if they happened to survive.

So all that bares the question as to "why"?

Because they didn't go through the events Goku and Vegeta did. They don't have friends that can revive them with Dragon Balls when they die. In the end, they didn't get a chance to test their full potential.

[Darkron2151]

"Pretty much equals"? Please, explain.

From what we saw from Goku's training, all we can say is he was taught the Kaio-Ken and the Spirit Bomb at 10x Earth's Gravity (that and chasing Gregory and Bubbles around). Granted, King Kai's training may be more "specialized" than just simple Gravity Training, but the enhanced Gravity Level played a BIG role in the results that Goku achieved, which was going from 416 to over 8,000. If not, then what else could Goku have possibly done that made him achieve such power in a relatively small period of time?

[Luso Saiyan]

Granted, King Kai's training may be more "specialized" than just simple Gravity Training, but the enhanced Gravity Level played a BIG role in the results that Goku achieved, which was going from 416 to over 8,000.

That's far from just gravity training. Also, it's not established how much of big of a role it played.

[Darkron2151]

That's far from just gravity training. Also, it's not established how much of big of a role it played.

How is that "far" from Gravity training? He learned a few new techniques, big whoop. Other than that, the majority of the training was just trying to get used to the new Gravity by doing the usual Martial Arts moves and chasing around Gregory and Bubbles. Plus I never said it was "just" Gravity Training, but a good portion of it was with few other things added to the mix. If not, then what else could it have been?

[ssjgluffy]

I would imagine its because saiyans arent that strong. Outside of rare cases like vegeta and goku they were just weaklings who liked to fight and were waiting for the full moon

[Luso Saiyan]

That's far from just gravity training. Also, it's not established how much of big of a role it played.

How is that "far" from Gravity training? He learned a few new techniques, big whoop. Other than that, the majority of the training was just trying to get used to the new Gravity by doing the usual Martial Arts moves and chasing around Gregory and Bubbles. Plus I never said it was "just" Gravity Training, but a good portion of it was with few other things added to the mix. If not, then what else could it have been?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don't see his complete training on King Kai's planet. We do know he had to adapt to its gravity and that he learned new techniques. You can't make claims based on what you don't see, otherwise it's all just assumption on your part and thus not relevant for the argument.

[Hitiro]

How is that "far" from Gravity training? He learned a few new techniques, big whoop. Other than that, the majority of the training was just trying to get used to the new Gravity by doing the usual Martial Arts moves and chasing around Gregory and Bubbles. Plus I never said it was "just" Gravity Training, but a good portion of it was with few other things added to the mix. If not, then what else could it have been?

Well, ignoring the filler. Goku took 40 days to catch Bubbles. And then he was doing serious training. He had 118 days left till the Saiyan's would come. He had become accustomed to the gravity in 40 days. So I doubt it was merely the Gravity Training that got him to that level. I'm sure sparring with Kaio-sama also helped him gain tremendous strength quickly. But none of this stuff matters really because the Saiyan's simply didn't have the time to grow in strength. They were sent to planets to conquer them around the clock with the only time they had to themselves as copulating, eating food and sleeping. Even in the Bardock special Goku's father saw Goku once and then immediately went back to doing his job. Not much of a social life if you ask me. Plus, as others have said, they couldn't get Zenkai's as it was a high chance that if they were injured they would be dead. Goku, Gohan and Vegeta were the lucky ones. Being brought back to life and getting Senzu's as well as other forms of healing. Saiyan's on foreign enemy planets would not have this luxury.